Seems as if I might be one of those who saw this as "humor". See below as an example of how rumors work.
Was I wrong? Is it true? Please tell me itis.
It was a joke.
The one started by Slandirac.
Cards meeting today (3/19) in OK with Murray
- Thread starter az jam
- Start date
Seems as if I might be one of those who saw this as "humor". See below as an example of how rumors work.
Was I wrong? Is it true? Please tell me itis.
It was a joke.
The one started by Slandirac.
Not that this is a real scenario, but just for the record, according to OverTheCap, if he's cut after June 1st this year, the dead money is $8.9M and the cap savings is $10.45M. So, an easier pill to swallow than the Cardinals cutting Rosen after June 1st ($8.96M dead money, $4.96M cap COST). Trading may have a different cap impact from cutting.
Again, not that this is even a thing, but if it were, it would be do-able for the 49ers.
...dbs
I don't understand the media ignoring the 49ers need to find a spark for their franchise. Garopolo isn't bad. But after looking like a legit franchise QB when he was aquired from the Pats midseason, he didn't look good after a full offseason. It's a limited sample size, I know. But the torn ACL certainly isn't helping his cause, even if a full recovery is probable. How long can the 49ers keep drafting in the top 3 and remain bottom feeders?
Murray looks like he could excel in Shanahan's offense. Good run game as always, including some read option, play action rollouts on every other play just like Shanny loves it, accuracy on the move. The 49ers make too much sense for Murray imo.
Think about it: They have 3 or 4 recent 1st round picks invested into their DL already, and signed the most expensive FA pass rusher. Can Bosa or Quinnen elevate their defense by much? They found a legit LB in Kwon Alexander, but he is just returning from injury. They have huge holes in the secondary regardless of DL. And while having a strong run game, their pass game was hit or miss at best under Shanahan. Another miserable season and he could be gone. I think they will keep the cards close to their vest and hope for Murray to fall to them at #2. If not, they can keep stockpiling 1st rounders on DL, I wouldn't be afraid too much of their defense overall and Jimmy G.
Murray looks like he could excel in Shanahan's offense. Good run game as always, including some read option, play action rollouts on every other play just like Shanny loves it, accuracy on the move. The 49ers make too much sense for Murray imo.
Think about it: They have 3 or 4 recent 1st round picks invested into their DL already, and signed the most expensive FA pass rusher. Can Bosa or Quinnen elevate their defense by much? They found a legit LB in Kwon Alexander, but he is just returning from injury. They have huge holes in the secondary regardless of DL. And while having a strong run game, their pass game was hit or miss at best under Shanahan. Another miserable season and he could be gone. I think they will keep the cards close to their vest and hope for Murray to fall to them at #2. If not, they can keep stockpiling 1st rounders on DL, I wouldn't be afraid too much of their defense overall and Jimmy G.
My biggest concern is they draft Murray and jettison Rosen. The Murray experiment, and that's what it will be, an experiment fails. Rosen in the meantime becomes a top 15 QB with his new team. Now they go into 2020 with no QB again and they are in a quandary of needing to trade up again using precious draft choices to get there. The one thing I do not want to hear from any Murray supporter is give him a second year to improve and get better. You all are behind tossing Rosen out like yesterday's garbage after one year so Murray gets no break there either.
juza76
ASFN Icon
Lol Rosen become a top 15 qb
I know everybody can dream anything but we are talking about the worst qb in the NFL last season, making a jump of that caliber is like projecting the Suns being a contender next season
Sunburn
ASFN Lifer
Lol I'm guessing you're not a regular member of sports message boards.
Are you sure we'd be needing to trade up?
Funny...I even stated it wasn’t true! This Murray thing has got us all in a flutter! LolSeems as if I might be one of those who saw this as "humor". See below as an example of how rumors work.
Was I wrong? Is it true? Please tell me itis.
It was a joke.
The one started by Slandirac.
LoyaltyisaCurse
IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...
1)I’m happy you decided your first post was to be used to condescend to folks.
2) Thank you for full bias disclosure.
3) I’ll take some brisket and a Sapporo.
devilalum
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I couldn’t agree more with the Sooner fan. Calling Murray a midget is way out of line. I’m pretty sure the correct term is “ little person. “
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DVontel
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lmao, I think you dislike Rosen more than I dislike Josh Allen.
Delmar M Lewis
All Star
Do you mean they have 3/4 of what it takes to succeed then
Cardiac
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How many #1 overall picks refused to run the 40?
See my response above plus how many draftees have refused to run the 40? People just keep making excuses for him and it is annoying.
DRM08
Veteran
I hammered him for this issue the other day. If he put on a ton of fake weight and he is afraid it will slow him down, that's not a good look for him to skip the 40 yard dash. So I'm not making an excuse. Just giving a possibility on his thought process.
BW52
Registered
Not any bigger than the jump you Murray fans are making by thinking he will come in a 'transcend' the NFL and be a big star.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
First, I just read an in-season article that he likely could have made it back during the season and almost certainly by a bowl game if he so desired. But that wouldn’t have been in his best draft interests. Just like taking the steps kyler took are likely in his best draft interests.
But that wasn’t really my point. What I was trying to point out was the majority of posters that are haranguing a potential kyler pick are guys I’m used to seeing bash the underwear olympics and arguing for what the player did on the field. I’m pretty sure that’s what I’m accustomed to seeing from TJ, Shane, and Rugby (sorry guys your names just jumped out at me in all this). But they and the anti-kyler crowd seemed to have flip-flopped now because it supports their argument against kyler. They are welcome to correct to me, but here’s what I hear them arguing:
Kyler:
Too short
Has gained weight as a show
Won’t get remeasured at pro day
Won’t run the 40
None of these are “on the field” elements. They are all underwear olympics elements. And I think it’s because they can’t argue against what he did on the field.
Bosa:
I hear a lot of arguments in favor of him based on the underwear olympics lately (size, good enough pass rusher speed, good agility times, etc). And I think it’s because he only played in three games this season and only played 42 snaps a game last year. In other words, there’s really limited “on the field” elements - particularly lately due to his most recent injury.
The other argument I’ve heard against kyler is he only played one year. The truth is when comparing Bosa and kyler I think we have almost the equivalent number of snaps to review. Kyler has a full season and played almost all QB snaps, and there is also tape from his days at A&M. Likely around 1100 snaps if what I’ve read is accurate. Due to Bosa’s limited playing time as a freshman, playing in a rotation is sophomore year, and injury his junior year I believe Bosa has something like 1000-1300 snaps to review. At most he likely has the equivalent of 2-3 more game tape to review than kyler. And it’s all considerably older than kyler’s. I mean, Bosa has 47 solo tackles and 17.5 sacks in 29 career games. Even recognizing he played limited snaps that’s not exactly King Kong.
Understand, im not arguing Kyler over Bosa. I really can’t make up my mind. What I’m pointing out is what I view as a but hypocrisy in the way some posters are approaching this argument due to their kyler bias.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
One of the reasons I flipped.
I just can't ignore how good most of his tape is.
His release is elite right now. His touch is very good. He can make every throw, and make every throw without a ridiculous wind up. I like Rosen's arm talent last year coming out, but Murray's arm is even better.
I havent even mentioned his running ability. Murray is the best player in the open field in this draft. Easily. It's not even close.
His intangibles are what sold me on him. The kid is a winner, an achiever. He was built for this. His father was a college QB, and he taught him how to throw. Every coach I've heard talk about him has said he's an amazing young man. His competitive edge and will to be great are next level.
But still there’s the questions by many. I don’t remember the controversy’s when Manning or Luck we’re being drafted. There are people who say Murray is sliced bread and more yet there are some that are saying he will fail against nfl defenses. It’s probably the reason we are so divided on this.
Dude is going to be primetime tv in the NFL....whether that's with the cards or another team.
I am not sold at all on Rosen. He's Jay Cutler all over again. He's not elite and won't win a championship. Not saying Murray will either...but his upside is far beyond Rosens.
I am not sold at all on Rosen. He's Jay Cutler all over again. He's not elite and won't win a championship. Not saying Murray will either...but his upside is far beyond Rosens.
Can you really say that Murray has a bigger upside than Rosen? If Brady was coming out in this draft he wouldn’t be rated in the top ten Qb’s. Nobody could tell Brady was going to be this good but he got into the right system and blossomed into the goat. No one can really say Either qb has a bigger upside. We can speculate. I think either qb could blossom in this offense and this offense will look different depending on who is the Qb. Rosen could look like Ryan or cutler. Murray could look like MaHomes or vick who was exciting but won nothing. It might be easier for us all if we knew exactly what this offense is going to look like and what it needs to excel.
Crimson Warrior
Dangerous Murray Zealot
From the mouth of babe!
I've tried to stay away from this idea out of respect for Josh, but if we're being perfectly honest, Rosen is part of the reason we should draft Murray. That is, Rosen failed so spectacularly last year, that it's reasonable to conclude that he doesn't have the potential to be an elite, superbowl-caliber QB.
Not saying he's a bad kid or anything, or that he doesn't have a chance to be a good QB. I'm pretty sure he does have a chance to be good.
And I'll preface this next question by saying maybe I'm not being fair, but if Josh were really going to win a superbowl someday, wouldn't he have shown just a little bit more than what we saw from him in 2018? Even with the limited tools available to him, shouldn't he have made a few more plays than the handful that we saw during his miserable rookie campaign?
Or maybe won at least a division title at UCLA at some point in his college career? They finished fourth in the Pac XII South his last year in school. Really?
In 2018, Murray took over games when his team needed him to. Just flat-out put the offense on his back, and willed them down the field. Can Josh take over a game?
If JR is our QBOTF, great. I'll roll with it. I'll cheer like crazy for him on Sunday's. Maybe he will lead the Cards to championship someday. I can say with sincerity that I hope he does. I hope I'm completely wrong, the Cards don't draft Murray, and that Josh gets us a ring.
But based on the current information we have about him, I would say his ceiling is 11-5, with a 2nd round loss in the playoffs, and that's not good enough.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
I dont hear anyone in the media or scouts saying Murray is going to fail. Its many Rosen fans on this board. That's about it.
People summed him up by his height. If he was 6'2, a lot more people would be jocking him.
Russell Wilson hasn't failed against NFL defenses, and I think Murray could actually be as good or better than Wilson.
BirdDroppings
Rookie
It only takes 1 person to start a rumor. Sports media makes rumors up out of their @$$ all the time.
CardsFan88
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One thing to think of is that as Cardinal fans, we've all seen a crap ton of bad years. We never got the #1 in the modern era. Until now. IF we are to suck with Rosen, it's far more likely we won't have the #1 pick, and thus not get the QB we want to replace him.
In future years, guys like Tua or Lawrence are going to be #1 or very near it. If we don't have the #1, we are looking at giving up 3 first round picks to get them, perhaps even additional lower picks. Whatever it is, it's going to be a ton, and ONLY if that team already has its QB or isn't a division rival. We have the pick now, and if they feel Murray is the better QB and/or fit with what KK wants to do, I'll be fine with it, even prefer it.
But people need to realize that the odds are, if Rosen isn't the guy, we're looking at the 3rd best QB, maybe 2nd best, in whatever year we want to replace him. People are just making the leap that it would be easy to get Tua or Lawrence. It won't be. If we're our historical 4-12 or 5-11 suckage, we'd likely pick 4th-8th.
Whatever would happen with Murray, the risk and cost is a single pick, or less if we trade back. Either way he's ours if we want him. We can't say that about any QB in future years. A Murray in hand is worth Tua in the bush.
We also do have a brand new coach, and I'd rather start KK off with a good fit from year 1 than wait until year 2 or 3 to draft a QB. By then KK will be getting a hot seat. It could be year 4 before a guy like Lawrence is in his 2nd year, and we aren't realistically getting him. This is the year to get everything aligned, with KK's first year and lowest expectations and most amount of time to have guys grow in his system.
So here we are with the #1 pick, and the ability to choose whatever QB we want, and it happens to be a small, one year starter with electric ability our coach recruited out of high school. We need to take a long hard look because we're here and it won't cost us any additional picks. While history is replete with big and small QB failures, each guy is different, and the NFL and the rules are more amenable to smaller QB's then ever before. He has wow talent. If KK thinks Murray is a better fit, we should get him the guy he wants. If Murray hits, he hits big.
Eagles won a Superbowl because they had two cheap, capable QB's on the roster. One was a vet from the depths, but there is no guarantee that Rosen would demand a trade or act a fool. I know the reporters had questions about his attitude, but those might be wrong since they never really had anything concrete to them, just seemingly assumptions.
I'm fine with Rosen, Murray, Rosen+Murray, Bosa, Williams, trade down once or even twice as long as we get good value and end up with the best guys for our team.
We don't know what we have in Rosen. Part of that is because we can excuse him on many things due to lack of talent around him last year. But he also produced almost nothing as a QB. Even in bad situations, rookie QB's often have a couple of breakout games in an otherwise miserable season. Rosen didn't. He didn't. I want Rosen to succeed, but I am absolutely not convinced he will be the QBOTF. He has a shot, but since we're not sure, we can't say we legitimately have one. He has some good traits, but they rarely showed up on game day last year. I was super underwhelmed by Rosen last year.
Even my best friend picked up on my lack of passion for Rosen last season. He was like, you aren't sold on him. I had to be honest with myself, I wasn't, and told him so. I wanted him to show something, and he rarely did. The best stuff he showed as a QB his rookie year happened before the snap.
I guess 4 games of over 194 yards out of 13 starts and 0 over 252 and only 1 Passing TD after Thanksgiving will do that. Matt Leinart had a far better rookie season. He was put in a bad situation, but rookie QBs often are, and many still have a couple breakout games. He didn't.
I believe that If you aren't sure you have a QB, you need to keep looking imo. We don't even have to rest all our hopes of the next 2-3 years on Rosen, since we have the #1 pick. I hear all the time that this year isn't good for QB's, or that year isn't, and good to great QB's come out of that year. Occasionally there's a bum year or two, but as of recently, there's been a lot of talented QB's coming out the past few years, and whatever Murray's faults are, he clearly has some high level talents. Potential superstar talents.
Bottom line is, we need to make sure we have a QBOTF or nothing else matters. Preferrably one that can lead an offense that can score 35-45 points on any given Sunday and can win a shootout.
As Calvin Candie edited to say in Django Unchained.
Calvin Candie: But one must not forget the most important thing in the gridiron game.
Stephen: Mm-hmm.
Calvin Candie: And that is a QB that can win games.
Stephen: Mm-hmm.
Calvin Candie: Now that should be your first, second, third, fourth, and fifth concern. Now, after you have that, and we don't know if we have that, then you can start to implement a grand design. In other words, first thing is first.
Well, we don't know and we're sitting with the #1 pick. It's not a usual position, but here we are and convential wisdom needs to go out the window. We just fired a coach after one year, have the #1 pick, and hired a college coach. This isn't our year to be convential.
To get back to #1 or otherwise get the #1 QB in any future draft, we're going to pay through the nose. Why not two bites at the QBOTF apple when its already in our hands? One that our coach can determine if he's the best fit for what he wants to do? Worst case, besides both flopping is we eventually have to trade one. But we secure the ability to find out if either of these guys can be our QBOTF. If we find one, who cares ultimately if Rosen or Murray gets traded for a 2nd round or 4th round pick? We could take the loss, and there's a possibility it might not be much of one, if the other one is decent.
One way or another, Keim and the rest of the front office staff and scouts are going to be judged on whether they make the correct decision. As much as Keim trading Rosen could get him fired. Keim not selecting Murray or even Haskins could do it too. No matter what though, if it's 2020 and we don't have a legitimate QBOTF, after trading up for Rosen and then having the #1 overall pick, we've failed. It's a big boy decision and I hope we get it right whatever it is.
In future years, guys like Tua or Lawrence are going to be #1 or very near it. If we don't have the #1, we are looking at giving up 3 first round picks to get them, perhaps even additional lower picks. Whatever it is, it's going to be a ton, and ONLY if that team already has its QB or isn't a division rival. We have the pick now, and if they feel Murray is the better QB and/or fit with what KK wants to do, I'll be fine with it, even prefer it.
But people need to realize that the odds are, if Rosen isn't the guy, we're looking at the 3rd best QB, maybe 2nd best, in whatever year we want to replace him. People are just making the leap that it would be easy to get Tua or Lawrence. It won't be. If we're our historical 4-12 or 5-11 suckage, we'd likely pick 4th-8th.
Whatever would happen with Murray, the risk and cost is a single pick, or less if we trade back. Either way he's ours if we want him. We can't say that about any QB in future years. A Murray in hand is worth Tua in the bush.
We also do have a brand new coach, and I'd rather start KK off with a good fit from year 1 than wait until year 2 or 3 to draft a QB. By then KK will be getting a hot seat. It could be year 4 before a guy like Lawrence is in his 2nd year, and we aren't realistically getting him. This is the year to get everything aligned, with KK's first year and lowest expectations and most amount of time to have guys grow in his system.
So here we are with the #1 pick, and the ability to choose whatever QB we want, and it happens to be a small, one year starter with electric ability our coach recruited out of high school. We need to take a long hard look because we're here and it won't cost us any additional picks. While history is replete with big and small QB failures, each guy is different, and the NFL and the rules are more amenable to smaller QB's then ever before. He has wow talent. If KK thinks Murray is a better fit, we should get him the guy he wants. If Murray hits, he hits big.
Eagles won a Superbowl because they had two cheap, capable QB's on the roster. One was a vet from the depths, but there is no guarantee that Rosen would demand a trade or act a fool. I know the reporters had questions about his attitude, but those might be wrong since they never really had anything concrete to them, just seemingly assumptions.
I'm fine with Rosen, Murray, Rosen+Murray, Bosa, Williams, trade down once or even twice as long as we get good value and end up with the best guys for our team.
We don't know what we have in Rosen. Part of that is because we can excuse him on many things due to lack of talent around him last year. But he also produced almost nothing as a QB. Even in bad situations, rookie QB's often have a couple of breakout games in an otherwise miserable season. Rosen didn't. He didn't. I want Rosen to succeed, but I am absolutely not convinced he will be the QBOTF. He has a shot, but since we're not sure, we can't say we legitimately have one. He has some good traits, but they rarely showed up on game day last year. I was super underwhelmed by Rosen last year.
Even my best friend picked up on my lack of passion for Rosen last season. He was like, you aren't sold on him. I had to be honest with myself, I wasn't, and told him so. I wanted him to show something, and he rarely did. The best stuff he showed as a QB his rookie year happened before the snap.
I guess 4 games of over 194 yards out of 13 starts and 0 over 252 and only 1 Passing TD after Thanksgiving will do that. Matt Leinart had a far better rookie season. He was put in a bad situation, but rookie QBs often are, and many still have a couple breakout games. He didn't.
I believe that If you aren't sure you have a QB, you need to keep looking imo. We don't even have to rest all our hopes of the next 2-3 years on Rosen, since we have the #1 pick. I hear all the time that this year isn't good for QB's, or that year isn't, and good to great QB's come out of that year. Occasionally there's a bum year or two, but as of recently, there's been a lot of talented QB's coming out the past few years, and whatever Murray's faults are, he clearly has some high level talents. Potential superstar talents.
Bottom line is, we need to make sure we have a QBOTF or nothing else matters. Preferrably one that can lead an offense that can score 35-45 points on any given Sunday and can win a shootout.
As Calvin Candie edited to say in Django Unchained.
Calvin Candie: But one must not forget the most important thing in the gridiron game.
Stephen: Mm-hmm.
Calvin Candie: And that is a QB that can win games.
Stephen: Mm-hmm.
Calvin Candie: Now that should be your first, second, third, fourth, and fifth concern. Now, after you have that, and we don't know if we have that, then you can start to implement a grand design. In other words, first thing is first.
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Well, we don't know and we're sitting with the #1 pick. It's not a usual position, but here we are and convential wisdom needs to go out the window. We just fired a coach after one year, have the #1 pick, and hired a college coach. This isn't our year to be convential.
To get back to #1 or otherwise get the #1 QB in any future draft, we're going to pay through the nose. Why not two bites at the QBOTF apple when its already in our hands? One that our coach can determine if he's the best fit for what he wants to do? Worst case, besides both flopping is we eventually have to trade one. But we secure the ability to find out if either of these guys can be our QBOTF. If we find one, who cares ultimately if Rosen or Murray gets traded for a 2nd round or 4th round pick? We could take the loss, and there's a possibility it might not be much of one, if the other one is decent.
One way or another, Keim and the rest of the front office staff and scouts are going to be judged on whether they make the correct decision. As much as Keim trading Rosen could get him fired. Keim not selecting Murray or even Haskins could do it too. No matter what though, if it's 2020 and we don't have a legitimate QBOTF, after trading up for Rosen and then having the #1 overall pick, we've failed. It's a big boy decision and I hope we get it right whatever it is.
POISON
Formerly known as Okieguy
He couldn't be any worse than this trash QB we have now
gamebird98
Hall of Famer
Charlie Casserly posts on this board?
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