Cards open to trade talks on Patrick Peterson

WildBB

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If you could get two 1st ( 2019 and 2020) and a second in 2019 and a third in 2019 I would have to consider it. You could change a team in a hurry with two 1st, two 2nd and two 3rd in the next draft. Of course the problem is you have Keim and Wilks setting the draft board and that is a scary proposition indeed.
Al the Raiders got for Khalil Mack was two 1sts, a 3rd and a 6th. They also sent them a 2nd and 5th along with Mack.

I think they'd jump on two 1sts all day long. Maybe less. They're far beyond retooling mode.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.denverpost.com/2018/09/02/chicago-bears-trade-khalil-mack/amp/
 

Timm Rosenbach

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If you could get two 1st ( 2019 and 2020) and a second in 2019 and a third in 2019 I would have to consider it. You could change a team in a hurry with two 1st, two 2nd and two 3rd in the next draft. Of course the problem is you have Keim and Wilks setting the draft board and that is a scary proposition indeed.

I could see Keim and Wilks really screwing up the pick. Michael B needs to override them and take the best player available (Bosa or Oliver). Hopefully Wilks will be gone before the draft
 

Harry

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Initially I agreed with the fake news post. However, I noted in the game thread that my opinion was changing. If Wilks insists on playing zone they might as well trade PP. I watch his play closely and he has not adapted to playing zone. I think he has great value to a team playing man defense. That ability to hold down the performance of the other team’s top receiver is critical in big games. I think he gets a first (remember the interested teams won’t draft high) and maybe a third. I don’t care at all for a coach who doesn’t know how to use his assets. However if he’s set in his ways it’s time to maximize PP’s value. Sad!
 

moklerman

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I could see Keim and Wilks really screwing up the pick. Michael B needs to override them and take the best player available (Bosa or Oliver). Hopefully Wilks will be gone before the draft
The more the offense struggles and the more the defense shows respectably, the more I think Wilks stays around. All will be blamed on McCoy and Wilks will keep his job. Unless Wilks falls on his sword and goes with McCoy for some reason. Jeff Fisher made an art out of doing this sort of thing. His teams were just good enough to seem respectable and like they were on the cusp if they could just get an OC that didn't ruin everything. Somehow, he never seemed to take the blame for hiring those OC's.
 

Russ Smith

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The more the offense struggles and the more the defense shows respectably, the more I think Wilks stays around. All will be blamed on McCoy and Wilks will keep his job. Unless Wilks falls on his sword and goes with McCoy for some reason. Jeff Fisher made an art out of doing this sort of thing. His teams were just good enough to seem respectable and like they were on the cusp if they could just get an OC that didn't ruin everything. Somehow, he never seemed to take the blame for hiring those OC's.


The problem is if you look at personnel changes, the defense has fallen off nearly as much as the offense has. The argument against Mccoy is he got back the star RB and starting LT and got dramatically worse, but people will blame that on the QB, the OL injuries etc and McCoy. ON defense most of the losses were intentional because we changed to a 4-3, and we've gotten dramatically worse, especially against the run.

It's like Keim and Wilks were in different countries for months and Keim was signing and drafting not knowing we were going 4-3, the LB situation is pretty hard to defend for Keim, he has guys who are just obviously not suited to play LB in a 4-3.

I actually think you may be right and after this year McCoy is gone, Keim is gone, and Wilks might still be here. But I can make a clear argument they should all 3 be gone
 

moklerman

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The problem is if you look at personnel changes, the defense has fallen off nearly as much as the offense has. The argument against Mccoy is he got back the star RB and starting LT and got dramatically worse, but people will blame that on the QB, the OL injuries etc and McCoy. ON defense most of the losses were intentional because we changed to a 4-3, and we've gotten dramatically worse, especially against the run.

It's like Keim and Wilks were in different countries for months and Keim was signing and drafting not knowing we were going 4-3, the LB situation is pretty hard to defend for Keim, he has guys who are just obviously not suited to play LB in a 4-3.

I actually think you may be right and after this year McCoy is gone, Keim is gone, and Wilks might still be here. But I can make a clear argument they should all 3 be gone
Yeah, that isn't me arguing for Wilks, just predicting.

And the defense hasn't been '85 Bears or '00 Ravens but all in all, it's been pretty solid. Viable at least and compared to the offense, night and day. There was so much change with the team though that just adds to the idea that Wilks will get more time. I can't help but think of Bowles with the Jets. No big expectations and plenty of time to percolate.
 

CardsFan88

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IMO, the Cards brass needs to think long and hard before shipping off players who don't fit this staff, whoever they are. Though Deone is a bit different situation given he's scheduled to be a UFA. One maybe even might add Fitz if this is truly his last year (though after being traded to a good spot, he might find he wants to play another year or three). This situation/staff might have screwed us out of making optimal choices with them.

Things are going very badly with the new staff and it's schemes. We have six games of evidence and another chance to build on it or refute it every game forward. Baffling decision after baffling decision. Under-utilization of players and fitting square pegs in round holes.

We don't want to trade off PP, only to then fire our coach after this year OR next and then be in the market for a man cover unicorn. Or another RB in DJ only to fire McCoy a few games later.

If they ultimately want to give Wilks and the defensive side another year, they need to do it with our best players being augmented by another year of the draft and free agency to get players who fit the scheme.

You don't get rid of your best players to further try new off/def schemes that so far are failing massively. Also IF they are going to give the coaches time to implement this scheme amidst its ongoing abject failure, they need to give their best players an even better chance to adapt to it. Doubling down on stupid only makes things worse. We'd be digging out of a much bigger hole. Your best players need to have the most leeway of all within the organization.

It's not like these schemes are taking hold and doing well except for our star players who aren't cutting it after a couple of years.

This might be why we need to hasten the process of dumping this staff at the end of this year. We cannot be tempted to trade our best players because they don't fit broken systems. It's very possible NO PLAYERS fit some aspects of these systems, because some of the systems don't work.

Getting rid of any of our good players is just going backward, creating more holes to fill, all for a staff that might be forced out sooner or later. We need to send the staff packing before we send our best players packing.

I don't think Keim/MB would actually sign off on getting rid of these guys, especially not without a record breaking Herschel Walker type haul, which just isn't going to happen. DJ was just signed, thus if we had any inclination to trade him, we would have done it before not after. PP is still young enough to be top quality for another ~5 years.

Trading away our best players would be such an old Cardinals move. It would just reinforce that we don't know what the hell we are doing. I don't think MB or anyone wants that. In life sometimes you take a step in the wrong direction. It doesn't mean you overall stop taking steps. We just need to identify and correct ourselves before taking another step.

God help us if they side with this staff over our best players, because that's when its time as a fan to panic about the future of the Cards. But that's a big leap from here, and this staff isn't making it too hard to notice what corrections are necessary, at least some of them.
 

RugbyMuffin

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IMO, the Cards brass needs to think long and hard before shipping off players who don't fit this staff, whoever they are. Though Deone is a bit different situation given he's scheduled to be a UFA. One maybe even might add Fitz if this is truly his last year (though after being traded to a good spot, he might find he wants to play another year or three). This situation/staff might have screwed us out of making optimal choices with them.

Things are going very badly with the new staff and it's schemes. We have six games of evidence and another chance to build on it or refute it every game forward. Baffling decision after baffling decision. Under-utilization of players and fitting square pegs in round holes.

We don't want to trade off PP, only to then fire our coach after this year OR next and then be in the market for a man cover unicorn. Or another RB in DJ only to fire McCoy a few games later.

If they ultimately want to give Wilks and the defensive side another year, they need to do it with our best players being augmented by another year of the draft and free agency to get players who fit the scheme.

You don't get rid of your best players to further try new off/def schemes that so far are failing massively. Also IF they are going to give the coaches time to implement this scheme amidst its ongoing abject failure, they need to give their best players an even better chance to adapt to it. Doubling down on stupid only makes things worse. We'd be digging out of a much bigger hole. Your best players need to have the most leeway of all within the organization.

It's not like these schemes are taking hold and doing well except for our star players who aren't cutting it after a couple of years.

This might be why we need to hasten the process of dumping this staff at the end of this year. We cannot be tempted to trade our best players because they don't fit broken systems. It's very possible NO PLAYERS fit some aspects of these systems, because some of the systems don't work.

Getting rid of any of our good players is just going backward, creating more holes to fill, all for a staff that might be forced out sooner or later. We need to send the staff packing before we send our best players packing.

I don't think Keim/MB would actually sign off on getting rid of these guys, especially not without a record breaking Herschel Walker type haul, which just isn't going to happen. DJ was just signed, thus if we had any inclination to trade him, we would have done it before not after. PP is still young enough to be top quality for another ~5 years.

Trading away our best players would be such an old Cardinals move. It would just reinforce that we don't know what the hell we are doing. I don't think MB or anyone wants that. In life sometimes you take a step in the wrong direction. It doesn't mean you overall stop taking steps. We just need to identify and correct ourselves before taking another step.

God help us if they side with this staff over our best players, because that's when its time as a fan to panic about the future of the Cards. But that's a big leap from here, and this staff isn't making it too hard to notice what corrections are necessary, at least some of them.


Is it the players, or the coaches ?

I say the coaches, since there are proven veterans that have absolutely regressed to the point of being one of the worse at the position in the league, numbers wise, at least.

The whole situation with the Cardinals is FUBAR.

This re-tooling has more or less broken all the tools.

The organization is not looking at a re-build next year, but a complete start from scratch scenario.

This year has been very painful to watch, and as a fan I have never been so uninterested in the product, or the future. Even through the 2000s.
 

Russ Smith

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Yeah, that isn't me arguing for Wilks, just predicting.

And the defense hasn't been '85 Bears or '00 Ravens but all in all, it's been pretty solid. Viable at least and compared to the offense, night and day. There was so much change with the team though that just adds to the idea that Wilks will get more time. I can't help but think of Bowles with the Jets. No big expectations and plenty of time to percolate.


We're giving up 60 more rushing yards a game than last year and that's not because we're always behind, much of that yardage is in the first half when the games are somewhat close. Wilks turned a good run defense into an awful one in one offseason.

I agree he probably gets more time but there is a valid argument he shouldn't, he doesn't have the personnel to be playing 4-3 this year, so he shouldn't be.
 

TJ

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People actually believed the La Canfora report?? Lol
 

TJ

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This thread should be locked
 

Timm Rosenbach

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a problem created where none existed. PP21 being traded would have been a ludicrous thought 6 months ago
 

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