"Cards' secondary has potential for greatness"

[52brandon]

http://t.foxsports.msn.com/nfl/cardinals-secondary-has-potential-for-greatness

Good read. I like thd attitudes. I'm really excited to see what this group can do. While our secondary has improved, substantially IMO, I think the big jumps on O will prove to be as much an impact on our D. Actually giving our guys some much needed rest

 

[82CardsGrad]

I can't recall a Cardinal team that ever possessed the amount of top-tier talent this secondary possesses. Cromartie is a wild card though... If he can stay healthy and keep his head on straight, he would be a HUGE boost to PP! And of course, while all reports thus far are very positive about the Honey Badger's rehab, we still don't know how he will return and if he'll be able to meet, or perhaps exceed the great start to his career...


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[Catfish]

Thanks Brandon. This was a good read. I too believe that this unit has the potential to reach greatness. The abilities, and especially the attitudes, seem to be exactly right for this to happen. Let's hope that injury does not hamper the efforts that this group will almost surely employ.

 

[ARZCardinals]

I don't expect the badger back to his old ways this season.

Having been through an ACL during my playing days (no not NFL) I can tell you...

anyone coming off a ACL may take 9 months to recover physically, it's the mental issue they can't hurdle. AP is the only person I've ever seen accomplish both the physical and mental issues surrounding a ACL tear.

Getting used to running and cutting is one thing, but when bodies start flying you start worrying about someone rolling into or hitting your knee you become light on your feet. Tackling someone sometimes means added pressure on your knees for leverage, he'll feel that ligament stressing as he pushes into the ball carrier.

The first guy to take HB heads up will show us if he's got the leverage, power and confidence or not. If he gets bulldozed...you'll know what's going on.

The other side effect of the ACL is getting it to respond...often the ligament is tight for a year or two so it feels a bit uncomfortable.

I'd love to see HB back to his form, but I'm not expecting to see his true form till 2015 season.

I hope he proves me wrong

 

[GimmedaBall]

Cards secondary has as much a chance to be medicore as well as great. Is AC's hip fully recovered? Will DB fit in as an enforcer SS or will we see more TEs scoring TDs over the SS position?

TM needs to sit. Period. He needs to be out for the YEAR. Hope the medical staff and the Cards mgmt/coaching know better than to risk his NFL career by putting him on the field before he is fully healed. Even if he himself is the one pushing to get on the field. ARZ Cardinal is right in regards to recovery. We saw RGIII give it a try last year and we saw his play really suffer. For TM, it was not just a MCL but LCL as well. His whole game is based on his quick cut and reaction ability---without that he is an undersized DB with average speed.

Time for Bethel to move into a bigger role as a DB. He has the speed---does he have the moves to play the slot/FS role that TM played last year? Jefferson and Johnson stepped up with TM out in our win vs. Seattle. Time for them to do it again

 

[BigRedRage]

TM needs to sit. Period. He needs to be out for the YEAR.

if the kid is ready, hes ready. kicking him for a year regardless of health would be silly. if hes skiddish or not full speed, put him on the pup, if by week 6 hes the same, then put him down. Down put your dog down just because some day he could get cancer. Lets see how it goes first.

 

[Cheesebeef]

if the kid is ready, hes ready. kicking him for a year regardless of health would be silly. if hes skiddish or not full speed, put him on the pup, if by week 6 hes the same, then put him down. Down put your dog down just because some day he could get cancer. Lets see how it goes first.

not sure if I totally agree with the analogy. in this analogy, the dog already has cancer and him playing hoping he'll be okay is like saying it's okay to smoke until his cancer gets worse. maybe not the best analogy seeing as dogs can't smoke and a variety of other reasons, but playing on testing that knee when it's possible it's not ready (and we've seen the Cardinals do this to players before...Beanie/Ryan Williams/Eric Swann) and seeing how he does for 6 games or so before "putting him down" could do even more damage to the knee long term.

edit: oh...wait...you said put him on the PUP for the first six weeks and then see how it goes. That I agree with. No reason to IR him off the bat. I just want them to be a conservative as possible with HB. He's got superstar potential and I'd hate to see that squandered because we desperately want to win RIGHT NOW. This team is building something for the long-term and I hope they believe in themselves enough to realize that the future is super-bright, whether it's this year or the next five.

 

[BigRedRage]

edit: oh...wait...you said put him on the PUP for the first six weeks and then see how it goes. That I agree with. No reason to IR him off the bat. I just want them to be a conservative as possible with HB. He's got superstar potential and I'd hate to see that squandered because we desperately want to win RIGHT NOW. This team is building something for the long-term and I hope they believe in themselves enough to realize that the future is super-bright, whether it's this year or the next five.

I say leave it alone until week 4 of preseason, if there is ANY sign of gunshyness at that point, PUP. If hes good to go and wants to play, let the kid play.

Understanding history is important but we should also understand the progression and where each of these players were when they returned. if HB is returning at a faster rate, dont put him down just yet is all.

I want him to be a long term superstar as much as the next guy but if he can play, we need him to play.

and no, the dog analogy wasnt perfect but still. We can use pulling the plug. Sometimes people refuse to pull the plug and end up with that person living many years off of the plugs miraculously. I hope HB proves everyone wrong again. we shall see.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I say leave it alone until week 4 of preseason, if there is ANY sign of gunshyness at that point, PUP. If hes good to go and wants to play, let the kid play.

Understanding history is important but we should also understand the progression and where each of these players were when they returned. if HB is returning at a faster rate, dont put him down just yet is all.

I want him to be a long term superstar as much as the next guy but if he can play, we need him to play.

and no, the dog analogy wasnt perfect but still. We can use pulling the plug. Sometimes people refuse to pull the plug and end up with that person living many years off of the plugs miraculously. I hope HB proves everyone wrong again. we shall see.

I'm with ya. It really is a shame what happened to that kid. He went through so much to get back on the field after bombing out of college and he's such an electric force on the field. Hoping for nothing but good things.

my worry overall with the D is that without him and Dansby, we take a step back. Neither situation could really have been helped, but those guys were just consistent forces/huge playmakers. Hopefully Cromartie is fully recovered from the hip injury and can ease whatever loss we have to deal with from HB.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I'm with ya. It really is a shame what happened to that kid. He went through so much to get back on the field after bombing out of college and he's such an electric force on the field. Hoping for nothing but good things.

my worry overall with the D is that without him and Dansby, we take a step back. Neither situation could really have been helped, but those guys were just consistent forces/huge playmakers. Hopefully Cromartie is fully recovered from the hip injury and can ease whatever loss we have to deal with from HB.

We had our best defensive performance without HB in Seattle. The key is the underatted Dline and Washington. honey badger wasn't the reason we were #1 against the run and you see Dansby magically became a stud around Game 5 which coincided with Washington's return.

I actually think Wash is underatted by this board. He is by far the most indespensible player on defense for us. We go from average to elite with him. Here's hoping his suspension is only a game or 2

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Cards secondary has as much a chance to be medicore as well as great. Is AC's hip fully recovered? Will DB fit in as an enforcer SS or will we see more TEs scoring TDs over the SS position?

TM needs to sit. Period. He needs to be out for the YEAR. Hope the medical staff and the Cards mgmt/coaching know better than to risk his NFL career by putting him on the field before he is fully healed. Even if he himself is the one pushing to get on the field. ARZ Cardinal is right in regards to recovery. We saw RGIII give it a try last year and we saw his play really suffer. For TM, it was not just a MCL but LCL as well. His whole game is based on his quick cut and reaction ability---without that he is an undersized DB with average speed.

Time for Bethel to move into a bigger role as a DB. He has the speed---does he have the moves to play the slot/FS role that TM played last year? Jefferson and Johnson stepped up with TM out in our win vs. Seattle. Time for them to do it again

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about in the slightest. And if it turns out he comes back too early and hurts himself again you are still talking out of your ass because you don't know his body, his rehab, how truly severe the injury was, etc . RG3 is his own dude. As a QB the trust of standing in the pocket is different then a guy who plays like a rabid animal in HB. apples and oranges. Or maybe not. But I'm smart enough to know I have no clue if he is more RG3 then AP.

They may end up being wrong but trust the hired professionals and the player himself rather then saying defacto this is how it is and period and all that BS. The truth is major gains have been made in ACL and LCL surgery the last 5 years and the common thought on rehab and "what it takes" by Joe six pack is no longer relevant. Everyone is different and heals differently.

By your all inclusive flawed logic you would have sat AP for his 2000 yard campaign in 2012. That would have been genius huh.

Let the process play out rather then making these extreme off hand judgement based on 20% of reported information and maybe what your experience with the injury has been or seen.

As If I didn't need to tell you there is a slight difference between joe six pack tearing his ACL playing pick up basketball and the subsequent rehab at Mesa Hospital and world class athlete Mathieu and the advantages he has at his disposal.

 

[desertdawg]

I can't recall a Cardinal team that ever possessed the amount of top-tier talent this secondary possesses. Cromartie is a wild card though... If he can stay healthy and keep his head on straight, he would be a HUGE boost to PP! And of course, while all reports thus far are very positive about the Honey Badger's rehab, we still don't know how he will return and if he'll be able to meet, or perhaps exceed the great start to his career...


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With Cro being on that one year contract, and having 18 kids, I think we will see his best play this year. Than he'll probably leave to go get paid but both sides would achieve their goals.

 

[GimmedaBall]

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about in the slightest. And if it turns out he comes back too early and hurts himself again you are still talking out of your ass because you don't know his body, his rehab, how truly severe the injury was, etc . RG3 is his own dude. As a QB the trust of standing in the pocket is different then a guy who plays like a rabid animal in HB. apples and oranges. Or maybe not. But I'm smart enough to know I have no clue if he is more RG3 then AP.

They may end up being wrong but trust the hired professionals and the player himself rather then saying defacto this is how it is and period and all that BS. The truth is major gains have been made in ACL and LCL surgery the last 5 years and the common thought on rehab and "what it takes" by Joe six pack is no longer relevant. Everyone is different and heals differently.

By your all inclusive flawed logic you would have sat AP for his 2000 yard campaign in 2012. That would have been genius huh.

Let the process play out rather then making these extreme off hand judgement based on 20% of reported information and maybe what your experience with the injury has been or seen.

As If I didn't need to tell you there is a slight difference between joe six pack tearing his ACL playing pick up basketball and the subsequent rehab at Mesa Hospital and world class athlete Mathieu and the advantages he has at his disposal.

You are standing way too close if you can hear me talking out of my ass. I try to keep the sound from down there to a muffled whisper. If you like, I'll speak up while you lean in.

I'll stand by my comment that TM should sit for the year. Cards acted in a responsible fashion by shutting down Cooper after the broken leg even knowing there was a chance he could get on the field late in the season. They need to do the same for TM and not run the risk of further damage that will cut his career way short.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We had our best defensive performance without HB in Seattle. The key is the underatted Dline and Washington. honey badger wasn't the reason we were #1 against the run and you see Dansby magically became a stud around Game 5 which coincided with Washington's return.

I actually think Wash is underatted by this board. He is by far the most indespensible player on defense for us. We go from average to elite with him. Here's hoping his suspension is only a game or 2

I think Washington is a superstar, but I think you devalue the impact those two guys made last year. They helped take a good defense the year before and their additions (along with the studs we already had) took the defense up another notch.

 

[ARZCardinals]

When will Washington learn
4 games last year
another suspension coming this year

seriously, what's wrong with his brain?

 

[BigRedRage]

When will Washington learn
4 games last year
another suspension coming this year

seriously, what's wrong with his brain?

all the incidents happened in a very small time frame and nothing has happened since. It seems he did learn.

 

[D-Dogg]

Shut down for a year?

:facepalm:

Let's let the world class doctors decide that one, kay?

 

[BigRedRage]

Shut down for a year?

:facepalm:

Let's let the world class doctors decide that one, kay?

no way, one time a doctor was wrong and we should hide in fear due to this.

 

[Mulli]

You are standing way too close if you can hear me talking out of my ass. I try to keep the sound from down there to a muffled whisper. If you like, I'll speak up while you lean in.

I'll stand by my comment that TM should sit for the year. Cards acted in a responsible fashion by shutting down Cooper after the broken leg even knowing there was a chance he could get on the field late in the season. They need to do the same for TM and not run the risk of further damage that will cut his career way short.

Wha

 

[TJ]

You are standing way too close if you can hear me talking out of my ass. I try to keep the sound from down there to a muffled whisper. If you like, I'll speak up while you lean in.

I'll stand by my comment that TM should sit for the year. Cards acted in a responsible fashion by shutting down Cooper after the broken leg even knowing there was a chance he could get on the field late in the season. They need to do the same for TM and not run the risk of further damage that will cut his career way short.

Curious. With all of this detailed knowledge you have of human anatomy, where did you get your medical degree?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Curious. With all of this detailed knowledge you have of human anatomy, where did you get your medical degree?

I don't know about Gimme's detailed knowledge of human anatomy, but I trust my father and my best friend, one of which has been a pretty well respected orthopod for years and another who's been an orthopod at the Mayo Clinic for the last six years and when both of those guys (who are die hard Cards fans and have had season tickets since the Cards moved to Phoenix) tell me what they think of his injury and how it should be handled, I give them the benefit of the doubt...especially when they've not only been right about guys like Beanie, Wadsworth, Swann and Ryan Williams, but the team has gotten those injuries and their rehab wrong in the past.

that's the reason I'm most skeptical here. I (and they) hope to be proven wrong, but I remember a lot of people laughing in my face when I said Williams would likely never be the same. Again, hope I'm wrong here, but I don't want to see HB suffer the same fate.

 

[GimmedaBall]

I don't know about Gimme's detailed knowledge of human anatomy, but I trust my father and my best friend, one of which has been a pretty well respected orthopod for years and another who's been an orthopod at the Mayo Clinic for the last six years and when both of those guys (who are die hard Cards fans and have had season tickets since the Cards moved to Phoenix) tell me what they think of his injury and how it should be handled, I give them the benefit of the doubt...especially when they've not only been right about guys like Beanie, Wadsworth, Swann and Ryan Williams, but the team has gotten those injuries and their rehab wrong in the past.

that's the reason I'm most skeptical here. I (and they) hope to be proven wrong, but I remember a lot of people laughing in my face when I said Williams would likely never be the same. Again, hope I'm wrong here, but I don't want to see HB suffer the same fate.

You're on the mark Cheesebeef.


There are plenty of medical studies available on the Internet for anyone who wants to understand the medical issues and the recovery process after ACL surgery:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3745228/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16870822

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15703963

Other references require access to a subscription service to read the full medical journal article . . . and if you really want to research this issue head to your local college library and get access to their Internet websites.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You're on the mark Cheesebeef.


There are plenty of medical studies available on the Internet for anyone who wants to understand the medical issues and the recovery process after ACL surgery:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3745228/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16870822

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15703963

Other references require access to a subscription service to read the full medical journal article . . . and if you really want to research this issue head to your local college library and get access to their Internet websites.

It's not really the ACL that bothers them, it's the combo package that he did to his knee that has them spooked about his return.

 

[Mulli]

Hey Cheese, please list knee injuries that haven't scared them.

 

[BigRedRage]

I'm not a doctor but I play one on ASFN.