Cards Shuffle

[RonF]

Cardinals to shuffle O-line
Shifts to be tested at 3-day minicamp
Kent Somers
The Arizona Republic
Apr. 10, 2007 12:00 AM

There won't be any surprising names on the starting offensive line when the Cardinals open a three-day minicamp Friday. Those names will be lined up in some surprising spots, however.

Reggie Wells, thought to be the starting right tackle, will begin the off-season at left guard. And Mike Gandy, who was expected to contend for a starting job at left tackle or left guard, will be at right tackle.

Coach Ken Whisenhunt confirmed the moves, first reported on KGME-AM (910) on Monday. advertisement




The lineup could change before the Cardinals open training camp in late July, Whisenhunt said.

"When we get to training camp, I'd like to put them in one spot and leave them there so we can develop some chemistry," Whisenhunt said.

Wells' move is a surprise, because played well at right tackle last season. That is an important spot in the Cardinals lineup, because it protects the blind side of left-handed quarterback Matt Leinart.

Milford Brown, the starting left guard last year, is getting married this weekend and won't be at the minicamp. That is part of the motivation for moving Wells, but Brown already was in danger of losing his starting job.

Coaches think Gandy and Oliver Ross, the tentative starter on the left side, might be their best options at tackle.



Whether Wells stays at guard will be a "function of how the two tackles play, if we think Oliver can play left tackle and how Mike adjusts to the right side," Whisenhunt said.

If this lineup holds until the first game, it means only one starting offensive lineman, right guard Deuce Lutui, will return in the same position he played last season.

Al Johnson, a free-agent acquisition from Dallas, is expected to start at center.

The Cardinals hold their first minicamp Friday through Sunday.


Note
The Cardinals have offered a one-year contract to free agent linebacker Peter Sirmon, according to The Tennessean. Sirmon, an eight-year veteran who has played his entire career with the Titans, told The Tennessean he expects to decide on the offer today.

 

[RonF]

Here is today's Republic on the Cards shuffle during a three-day mini-camp. I don't see why there's a problem with Whiz experimenting a little bit.

I'm sure he wants to see for himself what needs to be done to improve the line. Just think back to last year if Whiz and Grimm and company were the coaching staff, how many of those close games that we lost, could have been won?

I think most of our problems last year were were because of poor coaching not due to our team roster. We are rebuilding our bench and that will make us much stronger later in the game.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

"When we get to training camp, I'd like to put them in one spot and leave them there so we can develop some chemistry," Whisenhunt said.

I still don't like these moves .. and it sounds like Whiz will not be flexible like he said he would be .. favoritism already reeks ... what happen to open competition .. ??? you can't find out what a guy is really made of until you start to hit ... so if he makes the Oline in mini camp then he won't change it during TC .. ??

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Yeah, let him experiment. None of it really matters at this point. I'll be surprised if it stays that way by the second preseason game.

I don't see any favoritism- he's going with what he thinks will work best, and at this point it's who he's familiar with. You have to name someone the starter for camp.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Here is today's Republic on the Cards shuffle during a three-day mini-camp. I don't see why there's a problem with Whiz experimenting a little bit.

I'm sure he wants to see for himself what needs to be done to improve the line. Just think back to last year if Whiz and Grimm and company were the coaching staff, how many of those close games that we lost, could have been won?

I think most of our problems last year were were because of poor coaching not due to our team roster. We are rebuilding our bench and that will make us much stronger later in the game.

I disagree about the poor coaching. In the second half of the year, we were actually fielding an NFL team when it comes to the line. Experimenting is one thing, but putting players in where they have already failed miserably less than a year ago, (Wells at LG, Gandy at T) is a recipe for disaster.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Milford Brown, the starting left guard last year, is getting married this weekend and won't be at the minicamp. That is part of the motivation for moving Wells, but Brown already was in danger of losing his starting job.

Of all the offseason to pick this time to get married this really shows a lack of effort on his part .. I really liked the way he finished the season last year and if he was on shaky groound with the new coaching staff he should be putting in that extra effort to show that he belongs in the starting lineup ...

 

[Chainthroer]

I believe this is just an experiment. If it doesn't work, they just put Wells back at RT and Gandy at LG. This is probably what they'll end up with.

 

[BACH]

Of all the offseason to pick this time to get married this really shows a lack of effort on his part .. I really liked the way he finished the season last year and if he was on shaky groound with the new coaching staff he should be putting in that extra effort to show that he belongs in the starting lineup ...

Tell that to his wife...

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Tell that to his wife...

 

[Duckjake]

I believe this is just an experiment. If it doesn't work, they just put Wells back at RT and Gandy at LG. This is probably what they'll end up with.

I don't know. Has any coach ever taken over in Arizona and not seriously shuffled the lineup. Usually there is a huge roster turnover by the second year. Even McGinnis was "running off the malcontents" during the 2001 off-season and even more after the 2002 season. During the 4 seasons from 2002-2005 the Cards had 3 completely different teams.

 

[vinnymac]

I still don't like these moves .. and it sounds like Whiz will not be flexible like he said he would be .. favoritism already reeks ... what happen to open competition .. ??? you can't find out what a guy is really made of until you start to hit ... so if he makes the Oline in mini camp then he won't change it during TC .. ??

The competition has just begun. I can't blame people for being upset at these moves, but it does sound like an experiment.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The competition has just begun. I can't blame people for being upset at these moves, but it does sound like an experiment.

It doesn't sound like an experiment to me. It sounds like:

A: Awarding the free agents that you assigned a starting position, eventhough they may not have deserved it. (Yes, I am keeping in perspective that this is only a minicamp)

and

B: Moving someone into the position that M. Brown should have had locked down. (marriage is a complicated thing)

Don't get me wrong. If Whiz would have moved Gandy to LG, and left Wells at RT, the moves would have made much more sense.

 

[seesred]

If I were a betting person I would bet a lot of beer that this lineup is not the opening day lineup, but if it is I've got to trust Grimm and the Wiz to do what is best for the team. I persinally don't care what thier names are as long as they let Matt, Edge, Q and Fitz do what they do.

GBR
40

 

[Pariah]

Makes me feel a little better that they in part named this line-up because they knew Brown wasn't going to be there.

 

[ajcardfan]

Tell that to his wife...

Exactly.

"Honey, about that wedding and honeymoon we've been planning for months, we have to change the date because of a VOLUNTARY minicamp."

"VOLUNTARY!?!?! If you want me to volunteer for sex on the honeymoon, you'd better be at that wedding!"


End of discussion.

 

[football karma]

You know -- pure random-ness would suggest that eventually the Cardinals would hire a coach that knows what he is doing

At this point, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to two guys (Wis and Grimm) that actually have watched film with the benefit of knowing what was supposed to happen on the play vs. the opinion of amatuers who (at best) have watched some slo-mo TIVO'd games from broadcast tv.

The proof will be in the pudding soon enough.

 

[kerouac9]

You know -- pure random-ness would suggest that eventually the Cardinals would hire a coach that knows what he is doing

At this point, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to two guys (Wis and Grimm) that actually have watched film with the benefit of knowing what was supposed to happen on the play vs. the opinion of amatuers who (at best) have watched some slo-mo TIVO'd games from broadcast tv.

The proof will be in the pudding soon enough.

What is this based on? All the old coaches are gone. So are their schemes and playbooks. They might be able to figure out what each guy was supposed to be doing, but there's really no guarantee with that, either.

 

[Duckjake]

At this point, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to two guys (Wis and Grimm) that actually have watched film with the benefit of knowing what was supposed to happen on the play

Now if the Cardinals could just get some players who know what is supposed to happen on a play we'd be set.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't think it's an experiment at all. Why else would he make the building chemistry comment? The only way a change is going to be made is by injury or total incompetence by a player. The bad thing is the incompetence probably won't come about until the games are being played for real.

 

[joeshmo]

Of all the offseason to pick this time to get married this really shows a lack of effort on his part .. I really liked the way he finished the season last year and if he was on shaky groound with the new coaching staff he should be putting in that extra effort to show that he belongs in the starting lineup ...

I hope you were being sarcastic.

His wedding was planned before the mini camp was announced. If they are doing the typical big wedding and the planning that goes with it, it was probably planned before a new coaching staff was even announced.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

What is this based on? All the old coaches are gone. So are their schemes and playbooks. They might be able to figure out what each guy was supposed to be doing, but there's really no guarantee with that, either.

K-9, wouldn't you think that just maybe one of those Off. playbooks is gathering dust somewhere at Cards HQ?.

And even if not, I would think that any competent coach can look at tape and be fairly certain as to what a play was designed to do and the requisite blocking scheme.

 

[football karma]

What is this based on? All the old coaches are gone. So are their schemes and playbooks. They might be able to figure out what each guy was supposed to be doing, but there's really no guarantee with that, either.

Plays may have different names in different systems, but an off-tackle play is an off-tackle play.

Without the doubt, the level of knowledge the coaches have is immeasurable higher than that we have on this board, were we have very, very little idea of what was supposed to happen on a given play.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Plays may have different names in different systems, but an off-tackle play is an off-tackle play.

Without the doubt, the level of knowledge the coaches have is immeasurable higher than that we have on this board, were we have very, very little idea of what was supposed to happen on a given play.

we may not know what's supposed to happen but i canl tell you what does happen when Reggie Wells gets knocked back 5 yards off the LOS every running play.

 

[kerouac9]

Plays may have different names in different systems, but an off-tackle play is an off-tackle play.

Without the doubt, the level of knowledge the coaches have is immeasurable higher than that we have on this board, were we have very, very little idea of what was supposed to happen on a given play.

But that's not your argument. Your argument is that these coaches know what's supposed to happen based on the play call and assignments. As someone who's watched tape from college games, I know that the coach who called the play knows that, but there's nothing marked on the tape itself.

If that's the case, than someone here could just as easily see what went wrong with the play as Grimm and Whis. We've been watching these players much longer, and have a longer background with them.

It's really incredible to me how many people are willing to defer to "authority" when it comes to these decisions when so many times the authorities have been very, very wrong.

 

[football karma]

Now if the Cardinals could just get some players who know what is supposed to happen on a play we'd be set.

Some random data points that make me wonder:

1. hellestrae on 910 yesteday AM (and btw-- a guy who sat through 10 years of offensive line meetings, and represented yesterday that he got to watch coaches film of the o-line last year -- so he has some credibility in my book)

He noted that in watching film that it was obvious to him that the o-line didnt consistently know individual assignments (half the group blocking one play, the other blocking a different one), and where help was coming from (if you have help inside, do not let your man beat you outside). He concluded it was coaching (o-line and offensive coordinator) because it was multiple players, rather than just one.

2. The ESPN draft guide has a blurb on "How to build an offensive line"-- the conclusion -- one first or second round pick (usually the left tackle) - and then a bunch of mid to late round draft choices and/or undrafted free agents. Best OL in the game -- the Chargers who have a Marcus McNeil and then a bunch of second day guys. Pats SB teams -- one second rounder (Matt Light) and four journeymen. Colts SB team -- same.

3. Why is it the Anthony Clement can stink for the Cardinals (playing alongside the #2 pick in the draft and everyone's savior if only we let him play guard, with another first rounder at the other tackle) yet is pretty competent for the Jets, who started two rookies and had a journeyman playing next to him.


My conclusion from all this is that there is something way beyond just talent, and that coaching matters -- and not just offensive line coaching -- I think the whole offensive staff matters. Well see.