Cards sign LB from Cincy Akeem Davis-Gaither

[Dayman]

White
Snaps - 1,018
Tackles - 137
Missed Tackles - 8

ADG
Snaps - 534
Tackles - 82
Missed Tackles - 9

I just don't see it with this guy as a starter. Seems like a pretty big downgrade to me.

 

[BritCard]

People that complained about Mac Wilson last year are now doing the same. Color me shocked.

 

[BirdGangThing]

People that complained about Mac Wilson last year are now doing the same. Color me shocked.

the people that try to call out other people (but without ever actually saying a name) are now doing the same - color me not so shocked

 

[RON_IN_OC]

White
Snaps - 1,018
Tackles - 137
Missed Tackles - 8

ADG
Snaps - 534
Tackles - 82
Missed Tackles - 9

I just don't see it with this guy as a starter. Seems like a pretty big downgrade to me.

13% Snaps to tackles for White

15% Snaps to tackles for ADG

Have to figure out if his missed tackles are technique or brain related.

 

[PDXChris]

People that complained about Mac Wilson last year are now doing the same. Color me shocked.

Saw zero complaints about the player. Just one post about $11 million for the ILB as a whole.

Cards Sign ILB Mack Wilson

www.arizonasportsfans.com

 

[BirdGangThing]

Saw zero complaints about the player. Just one post about $11 million for the ILB as a whole.

Cards Sign ILB Mack Wilson

www.arizonasportsfans.com

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[BritCard]

Saw zero complaints about the player. Just one post about $11 million for the ILB as a whole.

Cards Sign ILB Mack Wilson

www.arizonasportsfans.com

Fair enough. Then maybe people could trust the guy that hasn't signed a bad linebacker in FA yet?

 

[kerouac9]

monti's not patching the hole just hanging a picture over it - he might be going ilb in the draft

Maybe. Off-ball linebackers are really struggling to make the transition to the pro game these days. You can invest a high pick in one (day one or two), but you're not buying a lot of certainty.

I think Monti might correctly recognize that outside of a small handful of elite players, the difference between the 13th-best and 44th-best off-ball linebacker is, at the end of the day, fairly small compared to other positions.

13% Snaps to tackles for White

15% Snaps to tackles for ADG

Have to figure out if his missed tackles are technique or brain related.

Why is snaps-to-tackles a relevant stat?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Maybe. Off-ball linebackers are really struggling to make the transition to the pro game these days. You can invest a high pick in one (day one or two), but you're not buying a lot of certainty.

I think Monti might correctly recognize that outside of a small handful of elite players, the difference between the 13th-best and 44th-best off-ball linebacker is, at the end of the day, fairly small compared to other positions.



Why is snaps-to-tackles a relevant stat?

Well it's what the previous comment gave as raw numbers to determine the kid isn't starter material. I simply qualified it in a way that shows he makes more tackles per snap than White. The theory would be, more playtime/snaps equals more tackles/production.

 

[BACH]

White
Snaps - 1,018
Tackles - 137
Missed Tackles - 8

ADG
Snaps - 534
Tackles - 82
Missed Tackles - 9

I just don't see it with this guy as a starter. Seems like a pretty big downgrade to me.

It is if you only use one metric to base your decision on and not seeing it as a complete comparison.

I could also just pull out pff coverage grade.
White - 32.0
ADG - 57.5

Or Pass-rush grade:
White - 49.4
ADG - 63.0

Around 60 is average starter
Around 70 is good starter
Around 80 is Pro-Bowl/top 5
Around 90 is All-Pro

Not saying that you are necessarily wrong, but saying that you cannot base it just on that single stat.

FULL PFF comparison:
White
Run Defense - 73.0
Tackling - 70.0
Pass-rush - 49.4
Coverage - 32.0

ADG
Run Defense - 60.6
Tackling - 50.2
Pass-rush - 63.0
Coverage - 57.5

 

[slanidrac16]

It is if you only use one metric to base your decision on and not see it as a complete comparison.

I could also just pull out pff coverage grade.
White - 32.0
ADG - 57.5

Or Pass-rush grade:
White - 49.4
ADG - 63.0

Around 60 is average starter
Around 70 is good starter
Around 80 is Pro-Bowl/top 5
Around 90 is All-Pro

Not saying that you are necessarily wrong, but saying that you cannot base it just on that single stat.

FULL PFF comparison:
White
Run Defense - 73.0
Tackling - 70.0
Pass-rush - 49.4
Coverage - 32.0

ADG
Run Defense - 60.6
Tackling - 50.2
Pass-rush - 63.0
Coverage - 57.5

Based on these stats it appears we will be relying on the d-line to make more tackles.

 

[BACH]

Based on these stats it appears we will be relying on the d-line to make more tackles.

Or a sign that with the improvements on the defensive roster, that a runstopping thumper ILB is not as important anymore

 

[kerouac9]

FULL PFF comparison

There’s your problem

 

[BACH]

There’s your problem

Well. It’s actually yours. You do not have anything better.

 

[Chopper0080]

Maybe. Off-ball linebackers are really struggling to make the transition to the pro game these days. You can invest a high pick in one (day one or two), but you're not buying a lot of certainty.

I think Monti might correctly recognize that outside of a small handful of elite players, the difference between the 13th-best and 44th-best off-ball linebacker is, at the end of the day, fairly small compared to other positions.

If I was someone arguing to validate Monti's decision to not re-sign White and instead sign the ILBs we have signed this offseason, I think this is the more valid argument than White is "not that good".

 

[BACH]

If I was someone arguing to validate Monti's decision to not re-sign White and instead sign the ILBs we have signed this offseason, I think this is the more valid argument than White is "not that good".

Well. It’s the same argument.

What White has meant to this team in this rebuilding process and objectively rating White as a player is NOT the same.

I can certainly give White credit for what he has done. But that doesn’t make White a good player by league standards.

We are talking a buttom 2 value position and the differentiator between good and average is coverage ability. An off-ball ILB that is good against the run is arguably the easiest skillset to find of any positions in the NFL.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Well. It’s the same argument.

What White has meant to this team in this rebuilding process and objectively rating White as a player is NOT the same.

I can certainly give White credit for what he has done. But that doesn’t make White a good player by league standards.

We are talking a buttom 2 value position and the differentiator between good and average is coverage ability. An off-ball ILB that is good against the run is arguably the easiest skillset to find of any positions in the NFL.

defensive coordinators don't name their sons after scrubs

 

[ASUCHRIS]

White has proven himself to be an average starter. We hope ADG fits that label, and that his pass rush/coverage make up for his weaker tackling and run defense.

I'd prefer to have both at this point, and we certainly have the resources to have both options.

 

[BACH]

defensive coordinators don't name their sons after scrubs

I’m not a defensive coordinator but my son is named after my wife’s late dad, who was an alcoholic suffering from PTSD from military duty and a horrible person. Because of the personal connection - not the qualities of the man.

Whatever you believe doesn’t change the fact that White was a complete liability in coverage.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I’m not a defensive coordinator but my son is named after my wife’s late dad, who was an alcoholic suffering from PTSD from military duty and a horrible person. Because of the personal connection - not the qualities of the man.

Whatever you believe doesn’t change the fact that White was a complete liability in coverage.

LOL… the complete 180 you’ve done from believing the team is going to and should re-sign White to trashing him is comical, but par for the course.

 

[football karma]

my operating theory is that Gannon/Rallis value a certain profile in their ILBs that other teams (like maybe all 31 other teams) just dont value

they tend to be on the lighter side and can run

as an example: I thought Mack Wilson was good last year - but he was a depth guy in NE. They signed two guys who have a similar athletic profile and background

if either of the two new LBs turn out to be decent players or better -- then good for Monti/Gannon for executing a good money ball strategy

if we spend the season getting gashed in the run because these guys keep filling the wrong gap or missing the tackle, then..........

 

[BACH]

LOL… the complete 180 you’ve done from believing the team is going to and should re-sign White to trashing him is comical, but par for the course.

Huh???

I has repeatedly said that the team would re-place him.

 

[kerouac9]

I thought Mack Wilson was good last year - but he was a depth guy in NE. They signed two guys who have a similar athletic profile and background

I think Mack Wilson was fine last year, but the vibe I feel is that people think he's, like, Patrick Queen or something. He was FINE, but clearly the staff preferred to give more snaps to White. What's changed?

 

[kerouac9]

It is if you only use one metric to base your decision on and not seeing it as a complete comparison.

I could also just pull out pff coverage grade.
White - 32.0
ADG - 57.5

Or Pass-rush grade:
White - 49.4
ADG - 63.0

Around 60 is average starter
Around 70 is good starter
Around 80 is Pro-Bowl/top 5
Around 90 is All-Pro

Not saying that you are necessarily wrong, but saying that you cannot base it just on that single stat.

FULL PFF comparison:
White
Run Defense - 73.0
Tackling - 70.0
Pass-rush - 49.4
Coverage - 32.0

ADG
Run Defense - 60.6
Tackling - 50.2
Pass-rush - 63.0
Coverage - 57.5

Even if you take PFF grades at face value (my opinion on this is well known) sample size on this analysis is extremely small.

According to PFR, Davis-Gaither was targeted 34 times when he moved into the starting job. He rushed the quarterback ("blitz") 13 times. I don't believe that's sufficient to make a determination on.

White was targeted 51 times in 17 games and blitzed 47 times.

I don't really have a lot of faith in the tracking data from PFR, either. FWIW.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I think Mack Wilson was fine last year, but the vibe I feel is that people think he's, like, Patrick Queen or something. He was FINE, but clearly the staff preferred to give more snaps to White. What's changed?

Correct. White was pretty much on the field for all defensive snaps last season. So White was clearly valued by the coaching staff.

So the only thing that I can think of is MONEY. If I had to guess the Cardinals approached White's Agent towards the end of the season about re-signing him and White's Agent came back with an amount that Monti wasn't even close to willing to pay. IMO after no progress was made on a new contract the Cardinals informed White that they would be moving on. This is speculation on my point but I think it is the only reasonable explanation.