Cassell: Barkley not an 'ultimate winner'

[Gee!]

Associated Press
Minnesota Timberwolves: As the losses keep mounting for the Timberwolves, so does the scrutiny and criticism from the national media. Not surprisingly, Charles Barkley has been one of the leading critics.

Point guard Sam Cassell said he can take the heat from pundits like Magic Johnson and Kenny Smith, who both won NBA titles in their playing days. But when it comes to the outspoken Barkley-- an analyst for TNT-- that's a different story, Cassell said.

"Charles was a helluva ballplayer when he played the game. I played against Charles," Cassell said Monday. "But is he an ultimate winner? No. He didn't win. He won some games, but he didn't win."

Barkley won the MVP award in 1993 but retired in 2000 without a championship after playing 16 seasons with Philadelphia, Phoenix and Houston.

Barkley's blunt analysis of the Timberwolves, who have lost five in a row and are 24-24 on the season, clearly irked Cassell, who won two NBA championships with the Rockets.

"They're the only two guys that have won championships," Cassell said of Johnson and Smith, who regularly appear with Barkley on the network. "The rest of them, they have a right to their opinion, but sometimes they tend to forget that they played this game, too."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1986562

 

[scotsman13]

coming from a player who rode the dreams coat tails to a championship 2 years in a row, a player who has mailed this season in because he didnt get the contract that he wanted in the off season. whos team only beat the suns becasue of the back injuries to charles barkley. cassell (the alien) should pulls his head out of his backside.

 

[Cheesebeef]

coming from a player who rode the dreams coat tails to a championship 2 years in a row, a player who has mailed this season in because he didnt get the contract that he wanted in the off season. whos team only beat the suns becasue of the back injuries to charles barkley. cassell (the alien) should pulls his head out of his backside.

rode the coatails of the dream? Whatevers Scots - I may not like Sam Cassell, but that kid was a HUGE part of those Houston squads coming off the bench and gunning his way towards a monsterous Game 3 against the Knicks where he made the last 3 to win it and get home court back and then putting up 31 against the Magic in game 2 of that series to close the deal.

Personally -I think Sam's right - the guy has been one of the most clutch players of this era and anyone who says differently is talking with sour grapes in their mouth.

 

[George O'Brien]

I still don't buy the notion that being a backup on a champion is a bigger deal than being a starter that gets his team to the finals. It certainly doesn't take away from the validity of Barkley's critisism of Cassell's selfish play this season.

 

[Chaz]

Sam is just pissed because Barkly is ripping his team and they deserve it.

What difference does it make if Barkley won a championship? Sounds like Sam is trying to draw attention away from the fact that they suck and he is part of why.

As a Suns fan I never worried about Houston as long as Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell were their guards. Cassell and Horry were the pieces they needed to put them over the top.

Sam was a huge part of those championships.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I still don't buy the notion that being a backup on a champion is a bigger deal than being a starter that gets his team to the finals. It certainly doesn't take away from the validity of Barkley's critisism of Cassell's selfish play this season.

I'm not saying it is - but for someone to say Cassel rode Dream's coatails is just ridiculous. There's a reason everyone hates Sam Cassel so much and it's because in the playoffs those two years - he and Robert Horry were the difference between the Rockets teams that perenially sucked for years and then all of a sudden won two titles. They're attitude and penchant for playing big when it mattered most as rookies and second year guys elevated that team to another level and to argue otherwise is just stupid.

That being said - Sam is a whiny little bitch who I despise but I do think it's funny Charles criticzing people when it was always clearly obvious that Charles had all the talent in the world but NEVER worked hard enough in the offseason or played tough enough D to ultimately get the job done. I remember Jordan talking about his "best friend" and how he knew he would never win a title because he was just too damn lazy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sam is just pissed because Barkly is ripping his team and they deserve it.

What difference does it make if Barkley won a championship? Sounds like Sam is trying to draw attention away from the fact that they suck and he is part of why.

As a Suns fan I never worried about Houston as long as Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell were their guards. Cassell and Horry were the pieces they needed to put them over the top.

Sam was a huge part of those championships.

agreed.

 

[JPlay]

agreed.

How many championships does he have withouth Hakeem. Barkley is one of the 50 greatest players in this league and a 1st ballot hall of famer. How are you going to put Kenny Smith over Barkley's accomplishments. He was a good point guard, but Barkley was a Superstar in this league.

I guess he has no respect for Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing or Gary Payton either.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How many championships does he have withouth Hakeem. Barkley is one of the 50 greatest players in this league and a 1st ballot hall of famer. How are you going to put Kenny Smith over Barkley's accomplishments. He was a good point guard, but Barkley was a Superstar in this league.

I guess he has no respect for Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing or Gary Payton either.

how many titles did Hakeem have without Sam Cassel? How many Conference Title games did Hakeem get to without Cassel? ZERO - At least Cassel got back to TWO other Conference Title games on TWO different teams.

So that's Cassel - TWO NBA TITLES - a KEY component on both and THEN -the LEADER of a Bucks team - yeah - A BUCKS team that got to the Easten Conference Finals and then elevated a T-WOLVES team that could never get out of the first round into the WESTERN CONFERENCE Championship last year and then they completely floundered without him.

So - Hakeem - Three conference Finals - two titles - leader of the team.
Barkely - Two conference Finals - NO titles - leader of the team only once.
Sam - FOUR CONFERENCE titles - TWO titles - leader of his team once and a KEY difference in the three other teams.

The guy - when healthy, is a winner - point blank and a more money time player - unfortunately - than Charles ever was. He wanted it more - he did more with less talent. Bark had all tyhe talent in the world and yet because he kept his body in ushc bad shape, succumbed to injury, year after year after year at the end of the season, allowing us to BLOW 2-0 and 3-1 leads.

Was Bark the better player? Undoubtedly, but it's hard to argue Sam isn't a GREAT winner - he's won every where he's gone.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I guess he has no respect for Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing or Gary Payton either.

I have no respect for Karl Malone or Patrick Ewing - you know why - because come playoff time - THEY ARE LOSERS. Great players to be sure, but I don'think about them when I think "Winners". They are guys who SHRINK when it comes to the big stage - same with Payton. How many Sonics teams got dumped int he first round by lesser teams, or just didn't show up once they played the Bulls in 96? Payton sure as hell didn't - the only guy who played worth a damn in that series was Kemp.

If I were Sam - and I was consistently a part of teams that kicked the crap out of Utah(which the Rockets did TWICE), the Knicks(which the Rockets did) or the Sonics which always flailed int he playoffs - I wouldn't have much respect for them as "winners" either.

 

[Joe Mama]

I'm not saying it is - but for someone to say Cassel rode Dream's coatails is just ridiculous. There's a reason everyone hates Sam Cassel so much and it's because in the playoffs those two years - he and Robert Horry were the difference between the Rockets teams that perenially sucked for years and then all of a sudden won two titles. They're attitude and penchant for playing big when it mattered most as rookies and second year guys elevated that team to another level and to argue otherwise is just stupid.

That being said - Sam is a whiny little bitch who I despise but I do think it's funny Charles criticzing people when it was always clearly obvious that Charles had all the talent in the world but NEVER worked hard enough in the offseason or played tough enough D to ultimately get the job done. I remember Jordan talking about his "best friend" and how he knew he would never win a title because he was just too damn lazy.

great post, cheese. Sure, Charles Barkley was a much better player than Kenny Smith or Sam Cassell, but his work ethic left a lot to be desired. Michael Jordan and Jerry Colangelo both pointed out that if Charles Barkley had not been lazy he probably would have had at least one championship.

Charles is entertaining and funny, but I can't believe he actually believes half the stuff that comes out of his mouth.

I think Sam Cassell is really just upset still because Barkley kept calling him Gollem.

Joe

 

[Cheesebeef]

great post, cheese. Sure, Charles Barkley was a much better player than Kenny Smith or Sam Cassell, but his work ethic left a lot to be desired. Michael Jordan and Jerry Colangelo both pointed out that if Charles Barkley had not been lazy he probably would have had at least one championship.

Charles is entertaining and funny, but I can't believe he actually believes half the stuff that comes out of his mouth.

I think Sam Cassell is really just upset still because Barkley kept calling him Gollem.

Joe

the gollem crack is CLASSIC.

 

[JPlay]

how many titles did Hakeem have without Sam Cassel? How many Conference Title games did Hakeem get to without Cassel? ZERO - At least Cassel got back to TWO other Conference Title games on TWO different teams.

So that's Cassel - TWO NBA TITLES - a KEY component on both and THEN -the LEADER of a Bucks team - yeah - A BUCKS team that got to the Easten Conference Finals and then elevated a T-WOLVES team that could never get out of the first round into the WESTERN CONFERENCE Championship last year and then they completely floundered without him.

So - Hakeem - Three conference Finals - two titles - leader of the team.
Barkely - Two conference Finals - NO titles - leader of the team only once.
Sam - FOUR CONFERENCE titles - TWO titles - leader of his team once and a KEY difference in the three other teams.



The guy - when healthy, is a winner - point blank and a more money time player - unfortunately - than Charles ever was. He wanted it more - he did more with less talent. Bark had all tyhe talent in the world and yet because he kept his body in ushc bad shape, succumbed to injury, year after year after year at the end of the season, allowing us to BLOW 2-0 and 3-1 leads.

Was Bark the better player? Undoubtedly, but it's hard to argue Sam isn't a GREAT winner - he's won every where he's gone.

Wow this is awful. You are actually saying that Cassell won those championships not Hakeem. Cassell hit some big shots but he didn't even start. You can also say Horry and Mario Elie hit those big shots as a result of Hakeem getting them good looks. The truth of the matter is that they wouldn't have those championships if Jordan was playing those years.

He wasn't a winner here with the Suns. He's a shoot first point guard whos teams underachieved in Milwaukee every year and has been regarded as a individual and non-team player. He's never been a leader, that's his problem. Hes a me first guy. He jacks up a lot of 3s and has no passing skills.

Now he's doing the same thing to Minnesota that he's done to every other team he's been with that's traded him. Acting like the cancer he is.

He's never been a star in this league and only made the all-star team once, when he happened to once again play with the league MVP.

 

[F-Dog]

Typical Cassell--he has no defense, so he tries to get away with a little cheap shot.

Somebody should ask Cassell whether Kevin Garnett is an "ultimate winner". I'd love to hear his answer to that one.

 

[Mulli]

How many championships did Jordan win without Steve Kerr?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

How many championships did Jordan win without Steve Kerr?

3

 

[Mulli]

3

Thanks. Knew I should have used Pippen instead.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Thanks. Knew I should have used Pippen instead.

Hehe, no prob.

 

[scotsman13]

how many titles did Hakeem have without Sam Cassel?

let me ask you a simple question, if i took the dream off the rockets and replaced him with david robinson would the rockets won those championships? No they wouldnt have. while role players are important. by themselves the dont win championships. now i am not saying i think that cassell is worthless, the year that the suns got him he was one of the few players who would give me an autograph at training camp that year (i was going to school at nau.) but he isnt a superstar


heck if jordan hadnt gone to play baseball the rockets wouldnt have even won those 2 championships in the first place.

 

[Cheesebeef]

but he isnt a superstar
QUOTE]

that's great and all - and you're right - but it's NOT the issue. The issue is about WINNERS - and it's UNDENIABLE that is what Cassel has been.

Malone is a superstar, Ewing was a superstar, Payton was a superstar - but when I think of them I DON'T think of winners.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow this is awful. You are actually saying that Cassell won those championships not Hakeem.

I stopped reading right here because you are obviously mentally challenged and have no desire to have a meaningful conversation about this argument.

 

[JPlay]

I stopped reading right here because you are obviously mentally challenged and have no desire to have a meaningful conversation about this argument.

Your obvious love for Cassell has blinded your vision. He's not an ultimate winner, he hasn't won a championship since he left Houston, he hasn't even gotten to the finals. He has managed to get himself traded three times and has managed to ruin two teams. Rudy T. won those championships with a Great Center and a bunch of CBA scrubs and mediocre NBA players. I give all the credit to the Dream for those championships. Only one team can win a championship every year and Jordan gobbled most of them up in Barkley's era. I would much rather be in Barkley's shoes than Cassell's when everything is said and done.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Your obvious love for Cassell has blinded your vision. He's not an ultimate winner, he hasn't won a championship since he left Houston, he hasn't even gotten to the finals. He has managed to get himself traded three times and has managed to ruin two teams. Rudy T. won those championships with a Great Center and a bunch of CBA scrubs and mediocre NBA players. I give all the credit to the Dream for those championships. Only one team can win a championship every year and Jordan gobbled most of them up in Barkley's era. I would much rather be in Barkley's shoes than Cassell's when everything is said and done.

so you think it was just lukc that Cassel was on the Bucks when they got to the Conference Finals? Or that it was just time for KG to all of sudden get out of the first round last season - I'm sure that has NOTHING to do with Cassel being there last year.

As far as my "love" for Cassel - I guess reading isn't your strong suit as you didn't catch where I wrote I DESPISED him. I am just a realist and objective when it comes to money players. Charles was that way FOR ONE SEASON - and then was along with everyone on the Suns, part of two of the greatest choke jobs in the history of the nba against the Rockets.

But you're right - it's my "love" for Cassel that's blinding me here. Are you telling me that Robert Horry isn't a big time player also? Or John Paxson?

You are an ignoramus for one calling out my "love" for the alien as well as your previous comments about Cassel winning those titles by himself - look if you want to start fights here with someone, find someone else - I got stuff to do.

 

[JPlay]

so you think it was just lukc that Cassel was on the Bucks when they got to the Conference Finals? Or that it was just time for KG to all of sudden get out of the first round last season - I'm sure that has NOTHING to do with Cassel being there last year.

As far as my "love" for Cassel - I guess reading isn't your strong suit as you didn't catch where I wrote I DESPISED him. I am just a realist and objective when it comes to money players. Charles was that way FOR ONE SEASON - and then was along with everyone on the Suns, part of two of the greatest choke jobs in the history of the nba against the Rockets.

But you're right - it's my "love" for Cassel that's blinding me here. Are you telling me that Robert Horry isn't a big time player also? Or John Paxson?

You are an ignoramus for one calling out my "love" for the alien as well as your previous comments about Cassel winning those titles by himself - look if you want to start fights here with someone, find someone else - I got stuff to do.

Settle down lil buddy. You're going to burst something. I said that Cassel has never been to the finals after he left the rockets and Milwaukee suffered one of the biggest choke jobs at the end of the season in history. Weren't they in first place and then lost like 14-17 games. Yeah and Horry was playing with Shaq and Kobe don't forget that. Oh and Paxson was playing with someone named Jordan. Cassel is an ok point guard he isn't the reason his teams have won. He's a role player who can't elevate his game to the next level. He'll probably be traded AGAIN.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Settle down lil buddy.

jeez. Nice way to try and have a civil conversation.