Cavs send us a Toronto pick instead of their own?

[slinslin]

Picked this up from a Cavs' fan.

If Toronto as expected, reach the playoff this season, we receive their first round pick for the Murray / Stewart trade. That gives us two picks in the up coming draft in the first round. Do we hand that pick straight over to Phoenix that we owe to them from that Wesley Person deal years ago. I think so. We are young enough as it is to commit to another two young guys for 3-4 years

Would be nice to know if Cleveland even has the option to send us a different pick.

If not they will have to work out a deal with us.

 

[capologist]

1) I don’t think they do have the option to complete the deal by sending us another pick.

2) If they do have such an option, they shouldn’t send us the Toronto pick. They should trade the Toronto pick to Sacramento for Sacramento’s pick and cash, and then send us the Sacramento pick. (It doesn’t necessarily have to be Sacramento. It could be any team that’s willing to pay to move up in the draft. Give it to the highest bidder, and then send us the lower pick.)

 

[slinslin]

The Cavs could call the Suns and offer the Toronto pick for the rights to their own pick.

Maybe the Suns could even get something more out of that.

 

[capologist]

I don’t think we’d be terribly interested in that. Not before the draft, anyway.

We might agree to a draft-day deal, if there’s somebody on the board that we particularly like. That seems unlikely, however.

The New York pick may come just before the Toronto pick, so anybody we particularly like would already have been plucked off the board, unless there are two players we really like on the board for the New York pick. If New York’s pick comes just after Toronto’s, a similar logic applies: if there’s one guy on the board that we really like and we take him off the board with the Toronto pick, then that kills the value of the New York pick, in addition to sacrificing the future Cleveland pick.

We’ll have a better idea of this when the draft gets closer, but my guess is that we won’t want to have two picks so close together. (On the other hand, if our own pick and the New York pick both land in the top three, I won’t be terribly upset about having proximate picks.)

 

[capologist]

This brings up an interesting point. If the Cavs do make the playoffs, their pick and the New York pick may be very close together. By a similar reasoning to the above, this isn’t an ideal situation. We may want to move one of the picks if that happens.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by capologist
This brings up an interesting point. If the Cavs do make the playoffs, their pick and the New York pick may be very close together. By a similar reasoning to the above, this isn’t an ideal situation. We may want to move one of the picks if that happens.

I was thinking about that too. If for some reason we do get 3 first rounders this season (which is certainly possible), I see no reasonable way we'd keep all of them.

The question, then, would be if we can get something of value in return. I'd hate to give away a mid-first for nothing.

 

[slinslin]

We could grab a euro and stash him in europe. So we can bring him over once we have used the salary cap space for FAs.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin
We could grab a euro and stash him in europe. So we can bring him over once we have used the salary cap space for FAs.

What for? Aren't you sick of projects? Before you know it, every year we'll be "waiting until 2-3 years from now".

 

[slinslin]

We could also use multiple picks to move up and get better picks.

 

[fordronken]

Or package one with Howard Eisley or Jahidi and send it to someone with cap space(like Utah) for a second rounder.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
We could also use multiple picks to move up and get better picks.

That remains my first choice.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by fordronken
Or package one with Howard Eisley or Jahidi and send it to someone with cap space(like Utah) for a second rounder.

This actually makes a lot of sense. With Lampe on the IL and Milos Vujanic already stashed in Europe getting rid of of salary to land either a top FA or a good role player who can shoot, should be our highest priority.

 

[jbeecham]

I could either see the Suns trading the 2 mid rd picks (Knicks and Cavs) for a top 10 pick or trading 1 mid rd pick with Jahidi and 1 mid rd with Eilsey to dump both of their contracts. That's if they get a pick from the Cavs. If they were able to dump Eisley & White then they'd have plenty of cash to make a run at Kobe and Vujanic should definately want to come over if it's just him and Barbosa at PG.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by jbeecham
I could either see the Suns trading the 2 mid rd picks (Knicks and Cavs) for a top 10 pick or trading 1 mid rd pick with Jahidi and 1 mid rd with Eilsey to dump both of their contracts. That's if they get a pick from the Cavs. If they were able to dump Eisley & White then they'd have plenty of cash to make a run at Kobe and Vujanic should definately want to come over if it's just him and Barbosa at PG.

That's about what I had in mind........ but if we have enough picks on draft day, we get more pingpong balls, and then, who knows what might happen. That's why every so often I buy a loto ticket

 

[capologist]

Giving up a mid-first-round pick for nothing except dumping the $6M/1yr left on Jahidi White’s contract is in-****ing-sane.

When I said we might want to move one of the picks, I meant for something of comparable value. The picks are very valuable. You don’t just throw them away.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by capologist
Giving up a mid-first-round pick for nothing except dumping the $6M/1yr left on Jahidi White’s contract is in-****ing-sane.

When I said we might want to move one of the picks, I meant for something of comparable value. The picks are very valuable. You don’t just throw them away.

You could argue that San Antonio did this past summer...

 

[capologist]

How so? They traded the second-to-last pick in the first round for a future first rounder. That’s comparable value, at least — the fact that we happened to get a good player with that #28 pick notwithstanding.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by capologist
How so? They traded the second-to-last pick in the first round for a future first rounder. That’s comparable value, at least — the fact that we happened to get a good player with that #28 pick notwithstanding.

But it is a fact, no?

 

[capologist]

Maybe.

He shows promise, but I’m not yet convinced that he’s a sure thing.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't think we want three first round picks next this summer. That is way too many rookies.

If Lampe does not get any real time this year, it would give us 5 rookies on the roster next year:

3 picks
Lampe (virtual)
Milos

We'd have one player with about a half year in experience in Zarko and Leandro as a second year player. Good grief, even Amare and Casey are babies.

I understand a youth movement and all, but that team will not win much, just based upon experience.

We would be better off turning those 3 picks into one really good pick.

I would consider putting them together to obtain a quality, proven vet or two.

The Lakers haven't had any decent picks in ages and they are getting long in the tooth. If they are convinced Kobe will fly anyway, they might be convinced to take one of our guards and a pick in a sign and trade for Kobe. If we get Kobe, one of them would have to go anyway.

 

[newfan101]

Does anyone else find it sad that now when fans talk about trades, it's how much we have to give up to get RID of a player? I never thought I'd see the day that contracts would get so out of contol that we'd make statements like: "do you think they'll take such and such off our hands if we give them a couple of 1st round picks?"


Hopefully this is just a weeding out period, as players are getting moved with bad contracts signed before the luxury tax came into play. But then we give Marbury an 80 million extension, Miami gives an outrageous contract to underachieving Lamar Odom, and I have to wonder if this will ever stop.

 

[capologist]

For us, I hope, it has come to a stop. One of the advantages of clearing out the huge contracts of Steph and Penny is that there is now much less pressure on us to dump contracts.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by newfan101

Hopefully this is just a weeding out period, as players are getting moved with bad contracts signed before the luxury tax came into play. But then we give Marbury an 80 million extension, Miami gives an outrageous contract to underachieving Lamar Odom, and I have to wonder if this will ever stop. [/B]

Its taking a while for some teams to get their house in order. Once the most recent CBA came into effect, there were still teams that didn't care about spending. The problem is that they get locked into bad contracts, with little wiggle room, and they are still losing.

Other teams manage their cap well and it helps them to win. The Spurs are a classic example. They always seem to be in the FA market in some way. Denver has gotten on board, and now the Suns.

In the new NBA less is more.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by JCSunsfan
Its taking a while for some teams to get their house in order. Once the most recent CBA came into effect, there were still teams that didn't care about spending. The problem is that they get locked into bad contracts, with little wiggle room, and they are still losing.

Other teams manage their cap well and it helps them to win. The Spurs are a classic example. They always seem to be in the FA market in some way. Denver has gotten on board, and now the Suns.

In the new NBA less is more.

The Denver Nuggets did a marvelous job of clearing salary. I kept saying the year before last that Kiki should have been named manager of the year. By giving up a drastically overrated Raef LaFrentz they were able to get rid of 3 big contracts that looked immovable. This Phoenix Suns trade is different. The Suns gave up a star point guard, but they also got bunch of young talent in return.

Joe Mama

 

[capologist]

Originally posted by JCSunsfan
Other teams manage their cap well and it helps them to win. The Spurs are a classic example. They always seem to be in the FA market in some way.

When you have a player like Duncan, you don’t need a lot of high-priced talent around him. Just surround him with decent role players, and you’re going to be a competitive team.

The Spurs also have the advantage that they found their two best supporting players, Ginobili and Parker, with late picks in recent drafts. As a result, those two players are still playing under rookie contracts that pay them very low salaries for players of such value. That won’t last forever, though — Ginobili is a free agent at the end of this season, and Parker in 2005.