CBS Projecting Murray Trade

[BullheadCardFan]

Either way this is what the FO will be doing

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Krangodnzr]

We are “hoping” a QB plays better in his SIXTH season. That’s a fools errand imo.

We do have reason for hope though because Murray has demonstrated that if you put a relatively good team around him, he can play at an MVP level.

I think Murray just isn't a player who elevates players around him. He needs a good supporting cast to be effective.

 

[DVontel]

He needs a good supporting cast to be effective.

That’s every QB ever though.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That’s every QB ever though.

Some to a lesser and some to a greater extent though. The 2021 team was pretty good for the most part.

 

[cardpa]

We are “hoping” a QB plays better in his SIXTH season. That’s a fools errand imo.

Ouchie, you posted what I was thinking and getting ready to post. The belief that I'm always one lottery ticket away from hitting the big one.

 

[TheCardFan]

That’s every QB ever though.

Most of them do but the great ones maybe not.

Marino, Brees, Elway, and Brady all had some limited weapons over the years.

 

[netsnjkidd]

Most of them do but the great ones maybe not.

Marino, Brees, Elway, and Brady all had some limited weapons over the years.

All those guys had a solid team around them both sides offense and defense

 

[QuebecCard]

All those guys had a solid team around them both sides offense and defense

Marino, Dolphins... Defence?

 

[Proximo]

I think you guys think way to little of Murray's value.

Is there a QB in the draft in the 2nd round likely to be better than him - No.

Is there another veteran that will be available better than him - doubtful.

Is there more than 3 teams looking for a new starting QB - Yes.

Supply and Demand.

 

[Stout]

All those guys had a solid team around them both sides offense and defense

There's a difference between having a solid team around you and absolutely needing a loaded team around you, though.

 

[Stout]

I think you guys think way to little of Murray's value.

Is there a QB in the draft in the 2nd round likely to be better than him - No.

Is there another veteran that will be available better than him - doubtful.

Is there more than 3 teams looking for a new starting QB - Yes.

Supply and Demand.

About as weak an endorsement as possible. Also, I'm not sure there isn't a QB in the 2nd round that would be better than him. Also also, why not the 1st round? Also, I'm not sure Gardner Minshew wouldn't be better than Kyler in this offense.

 

[kerouac9]

I agree with the first part of your assessment but strongly disagree on the last part.

He certainly has to justify his cap number. We can get "league average QB production" from guys that are getting paid 50% (veteran) to 20% (rookie) of his current contract.

Comparing him to Kirk Cousins (who has been surrounded by talent and still couldn't win) -
Kirk was the 15th highest paid QB (AAV) this year.
Kyler was 6th highest paid.
Kyler is getting paid more (AAV) than Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Mathew Stafford, Dak Prescott, and Jared Goff.

The only reason to keep Murray is if you think he can get back to an elite franchise QB level.

I just disagree with this. I don't think there are a lot of Baker Mayfields out there where you're gonna get 17 weeks of average play for $4 million. You're more likely to get Derek Carr for 81% of Kyler's deal and get 50% of the production.

If you could guarantee me that we could get average QB production starting Year 1 from the prospect we'd choose with Houston's pick, I'd take you up on that deal. But I think that's unlikely.

Honest question: would you swap Kyler Murray for Jared Goff right now?

Just curious - can you post the graph?

Wondering who else is in the middle third and above vs what they are making per year.

They don't do it as a graph, and I can't access the site from this computer. Just because I checked, here was Kyler's DYAR rankings (DYAR) in each of his six games this year:

ATL: 14th (26)
@HOU: 19th (-8)
LAR: 25th (-38)
@PIT: 13th (14)
SF: 25th (-59)
@CHI: 23rd (16) -- BTW James Conner was the top back in DYAR last week. He's having a great season for a bad team.

Most of them do but the great ones maybe not.

Marino, Brees, Elway, and Brady all had some limited weapons over the years.

Bruh. Dan Marino and Elway retired nearly 25 years ago. Brees was joined at the Pro Bowl by three teammates when he last made it. Brady left New England because they wouldn't give him any weapons besides Gronk and a collection of 5'11" collegiate lacrosse players.

 

[cardsfanmd]

We are “hoping” a QB plays better in his SIXTH season. That’s a fools errand imo.

Not really. You’re hoping that he plays better in his first full season under a new regime than he did the last year and a half. Some are calling for Wilson, who improved dramatically the second half of this year after looking done the first year and a half with Denver, where he had a superior supporting cast than Kyler’s had during that same time period.

 

[jf-08]

Since one of you (can’t recall whom) pointed out that kyler isn’t a timing qb I haven’t been able to unsee the truth of the comment. He’s not. And that means the only plays to be made are when a receiver is wide open or kyler goes off script. The combination of those doesn’t bode well for sustainable success.

I did in the game thread.

 

[Proximo]

About as weak an endorsement as possible. Also, I'm not sure there isn't a QB in the 2nd round that would be better than him. Also also, why not the 1st round? Also, I'm not sure Gardner Minshew wouldn't be better than Kyler in this offense.

I don't think a first is out of the question. Just depends on how many teams are bidding.

 

[kerouac9]

Not really. You’re hoping that he plays better in his first full season under a new regime than he did the last year and a half. Some are calling for Wilson, who improved dramatically the second half of this year after looking done the first year and a half with Denver, where he had a superior supporting cast than Kyler’s had during that same time period.

Also, Carson Palmer's improvement in the second half and year in Bruce Arians' offense comes to mind.

I dunno if Kyler can improve his rhythm passing, but I wouldn't be surprised if the coaching staff is willing to give him a healthy season to work on it with his dad and come back into camp to polish it up.

 

[TheCardFan]

Honest question: would you swap Kyler Murray for Jared Goff right now?

Of course not.

However, I would trade Kyler and sign a guy making 50% of his contract in the same middle third DVOA performance vs keeping Kyler.

The only reason to keep Kyler with that contract is if you expect him to become early 2021 Kyler again.

 

[Chopper0080]

I guess it depends on what the definition of "successful" is for people. I think Kyler Murray -- even this version -- can win 9 games a season and sometimes 12 games in a season. Right now, in this form, Kyler Murray is a league-average quarterback. I check the DVOA write-ups on him each week and he lands somewhere in the middle third of the league.

I don't think that Murray can be the best quarterback in the NFL. But you don't need to be to keep a starting job -- or even to justify his salary cap number over the next few years. He has to be Kirk Cousins. That won't thrill me, but I think it will satisfy his coach, whose mentor Mike Zimmer had a difficult detante with Cousins for years.

This is where I disagree but I am sure that is clouded by the fact I don't enjoy watching Kyler play QB. I believe he is a 5-9 win guy depending on health and luck of matchups, and I think that is where most of the debate essentially is.

Do you think Kyler can consistently win 9 games per year as a QB without significant change to his current level of play?

 

[Chopper0080]

Yeah this is an interesting thought exercise. I think we saw the kyler 12 win guy briefly, but I believe he’s dead and forever buried. Since one of you (can’t recall whom) pointed out that kyler isn’t a timing qb I haven’t been able to unsee the truth of the comment. He’s not. And that means the only plays to be made are when a receiver is wide open or kyler goes off script. The combination of those doesn’t bode well for sustainable success.

Cheese and I were discussing who were “one more year” qb’s that eventually hit big and really couldn’t conjure up one. We did think of a bunch of one more year guys (including cousins), but we think he’s below cousins. We dread the reality that’s he’s carr.

I would agree that Kyler is more Carr than Cousins at this point in time.

 

[Stout]

Also, Carson Palmer's improvement in the second half and year in Bruce Arians' offense comes to mind.

I dunno if Kyler can improve his rhythm passing, but I wouldn't be surprised if the coaching staff is willing to give him a healthy season to work on it with his dad and come back into camp to polish it up.

I mean, just

 

[Chopper0080]

That’s every QB ever though.

Agree that I don't know that more talent will make Kyler a "better QB" as much as they will have the talent to presumably overcome his shortcomings.

 

[kerouac9]

Of course not.

However, I would trade Kyler and sign a guy making 50% of his contract in the same middle third DVOA performance vs keeping Kyler.

The only reason to keep Kyler with that contract is if you expect him to become early 2021 Kyler again.

See, I think I would trade Jared Goff for Kyler Murray right now. The difference is Goff knows what he can and can't do and doesn't press.

It's extremely frustrating watching Kyler make the same mistakes over and over. I'm nearly done with it, but I'd love for you to identify the guy who will make 50% of Kyler's contract and place in the middle third. That guy's going to end up being, like, Zach Wilson or Jameis Winston.

One lesson I really took walking through Ouchie's exercise of naming QBs who could be as good as Brock Purdy is that a lot of really good QBs just disappeared from the NFL over the past, like, three years. It doesn't seem that long ago when it felt like there were more starting-caliber QBs than jobs. Where are the Ryan Fitzpatrick's of this generation?

This is where I disagree but I am sure that is clouded by the fact I don't enjoy watching Kyler play QB. I believe he is a 5-9 win guy depending on health and luck of matchups, and I think that is where most of the debate essentially is.

Do you think Kyler can consistently win 9 games per year as a QB without significant change to his current level of play?

I think he's a 5-9 win guy with this cast. I think you add a couple weapons (not top-flight weapons, just a legit #1 and #2 wideout) and he moves into that class of guys you can win with. The defense would have to improve.

There's a moderate chance that the offense clicks for Kyler over this offseason and he becomes fun again. The bigger chance is he's pocket-sized Jay Cutler.

 

[DaHilg]

lol this thread has turned into nothing but 4-5 people ****!ng on kyler. Let’s see him at least have a competent roster as any decent QB has had before making all these wild statements with the worst roster in the league - by far. Let’s see him have an off-season of not rehabbing and learning a pro style offense before bringing out the pitch forks lol. The expectations for a situation that I don’t believe ANY active QB in the league would be thriving in OR even improving are just absurd.

Cut him, trade him, do whatever if he is sucking at this point this season…. But let’s give the guy a fighting chance first.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Five potential landing spots for Kyler Murray

https://atozsports.com/arizona/kyler-murray-landing-spots-cardinals/

 

[TheCardFan]

See, I think I would trade Jared Goff for Kyler Murray right now. The difference is Goff knows what he can and can't do and doesn't press.

My thought process is:
1) We can trade Kyler for something more than Goff
2) Goff has benefited from 2 genius OC's - we don't have that IMO

I'd love for you to identify the guy who will make 50% of Kyler's contract and place in the middle third.

That is why I was asking for the DVOA chart.

Other than QB's on their first contracts, there has to be some veterans like Baker and Gardner.

Baker has made just a bit more in his entire career as Murray is averaging per year on his new contract.

You must be registered for see images attach