CCC Cardinal Culture Change?

THESMEL

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Thought this deserved its own thread- besides all the behavioral rehabilitation under Cardinal wings at this time. It is time Cardinal fans take a look in the mirror - and watch ourselves for Cardinal virtues as a fan base.

What sets us apart from other teams fan bases positively? I mean we showed up pretty strong in 08 and 09- besides that enduring over a century of the worse records in professional sports- has made us a we bit- tempered.


good Fanfare example

Edge was worshipped by Indy fans, gave a SB ring from his former team - Top 10 all time NFL RB records- while many if not most Cardinal fans and Whisenhunt treated him like a pile of dung-

Not so quietly BA is forcing his will on Cardinal dysfunctional culture and fans. Starting with grading Levi Elite and supporting him come hell or high water.

Not Mike Adams, Gay, McFadden, Faneca, Porter or THT, and other Whiz pets -

I like Dansby coming back- it shows a certain respect for the changes and the franchise.
 

Duckjake

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Every new coach that comes in is going to change the culture. And they're usually the opposite style of coach from the last guy. Has only worked for a couple of seasons out of the last 50 so I'll believe it when I see it.
 

Catfish

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You make some very good points O-Smelly One. It is almost a certainty than Dansby doesn't come back to play for Whiz in my opinion. As for Edge, Whiz treated most of his players like that. He just didn't see much past what they did for him on the field.

As for Duckjake-----if he hasn't seen by now the HUGE cultural change that has already taken place in this franchise, he most likely never will. Some people can't see the forest for the trees-----others simply do not look.
 

Duckjake

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You make some very good points O-Smelly One. It is almost a certainty than Dansby doesn't come back to play for Whiz in my opinion. As for Edge, Whiz treated most of his players like that. He just didn't see much past what they did for him on the field.

As for Duckjake-----if he hasn't seen by now the HUGE cultural change that has already taken place in this franchise, he most likely never will. Some people can't see the forest for the trees-----others simply do not look.

I here this same Kool aid stuff every time there's a new coach. It won't take 15 minutes for you to be writing the same stuff about whoever replaces Arians.

Buddy Ryan was going to change the culture. He ended up 4-12. McGinnis was going to change the culture he ended up 4-12. Denny Green was going to change the culture. He ended up 5-11. Ken Whisenhunt was going to change the culture. And even after a trip to the SB he ended up 5-11. The new stadium and Mike Bidwill were going to change the culture. 5-11 two of the last 3 seasons.

I'll believe it when I see it.
 
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RedViper

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I here this same Kool aid stuff every time there's a new coach. It won't take 15 minutes for you to be writing the same stuff about whoever replaces Arians.

I'll believe it when I see it.

This couldn't be more true. Let see how many people are sticking by Arians when he is at the controls during a five game skid heading into Veterans Day. Or in year two if year one is a wipe out. Finding people to support a Cardinals coach after consecutive losing seasons is like finding Swiss combat medals. Its an easy sell today though. There is a reason that in twenty five years of AZ Cardinals football, only once, has a head coach made it to a second contract.
 

Goldfield

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This couldn't be more true. Let see how many people are sticking by Arians when he is at the controls during a five game skid heading into Veterans Day. Or in year two if year one is a wipe out. Finding people to support a Cardinals coach after consecutive losing seasons is like finding Swiss combat medals. Its an easy sell today though. There is a reason that in twenty five years of AZ Cardinals football, only once, has a head coach made it to a second contract.
That would be because the Cardinals have always been lacking at the QB position. Palmer is pretty solid.
 

Catfish

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Coaches and players don't change the culture of a franchise NEARLY so much as a GM or a new owner does. In this case, we have a relatively new owner, (now that Michael is taking responsibility for football operations), and Keim is a brand new GM. Both have made worlds of change to the culture of this team already. The best part of that is they are not closed into any one plan or scheme. I believe they both intended to elevate Ray Horton to HC, but after interviewing BA and hearing his plans for a staff, they suddenly changed to go after what had to be a higher up-side.

This instantly changed the type of personnel we brought in. Keim had the spotlight on the talent level, and BA had his on the leadership ability of each player. When the two merged, they very aggressively went after that player. That has not happened here before.

Keim has proven to be very adept in contract negotiations, and quickness to find common ground with the prospective player and his agent. The difference between his performance and Rod Graves' is overwhelming. Not only is he a skilled negotiator, but he has displayed agility in moving around in the draft as well. Most of all, his decisiveness has already paid huge dividends simply with the signings of Palmer, and Dansby.

BA has shown brilliance in selecting great, (and highly respected), teachers on his staff. These new coaches are not full of themselves or their schemes. They have the respect and trust of the players that are coming in, (at all age and experience levels). That has not been a forte of any other coaching staff here since Joe Bugel was fired.
 

Duckjake

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Coaches and players don't change the culture of a franchise NEARLY so much as a GM or a new owner does. In this case, we have a relatively new owner, (now that Michael is taking responsibility for football operations), and Keim is a brand new GM. Both have made worlds of change to the culture of this team already. The best part of that is they are not closed into any one plan or scheme. I believe they both intended to elevate Ray Horton to HC, but after interviewing BA and hearing his plans for a staff, they suddenly changed to go after what had to be a higher up-side.

This instantly changed the type of personnel we brought in. Keim had the spotlight on the talent level, and BA had his on the leadership ability of each player. When the two merged, they very aggressively went after that player. That has not happened here before.

Keim has proven to be very adept in contract negotiations, and quickness to find common ground with the prospective player and his agent. The difference between his performance and Rod Graves' is overwhelming. Not only is he a skilled negotiator, but he has displayed agility in moving around in the draft as well. Most of all, his decisiveness has already paid huge dividends simply with the signings of Palmer, and Dansby.

BA has shown brilliance in selecting great, (and highly respected), teachers on his staff. These new coaches are not full of themselves or their schemes. They have the respect and trust of the players that are coming in, (at all age and experience levels). That has not been a forte of any other coaching staff here since Joe Bugel was fired
.[/QUOTE

Michael Bidwill has been in charge of football operations for 10 years. If Keim is so smart why did it take Michael so long to promote him? Why did Keim feel the need to jettison so many players that he helped the Cardinals select?

All I see is the usual change in an NFL team where they go in the exact opposite direction from what they were doing when they decided to make a change in staff. Instead of paying big money for a few free agents they're paying small money to a lot of free agents and hired Arians who is the opposite of Whisenhunt and are going in the opposite direction under Bowles than they did with Horton.

The new coach is hiring his friends as assistants and bringing in guys he is familiar with as players just like every new coach does. That's not culture changing. That's just normal.

Michael Bidwill and Steve Keim were part of the group that took a team that won back to back NFC West titles and turned it into a disaster just last season. Did they ride together to Damascus or something that caused this sudden great change in culture?

Until proven otherwise they're still the 5-11 with 'em. 5-11 without 'em. Cardinals.
 

Catfish

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.[/QUOTE

Michael Bidwill has been in charge of football operations for 10 years. If Keim is so smart why did it take Michael so long to promote him? Why did Keim feel the need to jettison so many players that he helped the Cardinals select?

All I see is the usual change in an NFL team where they go in the exact opposite direction from what they were doing when they decided to make a change in staff. Instead of paying big money for a few free agents they're paying small money to a lot of free agents and hired Arians who is the opposite of Whisenhunt and are going in the opposite direction under Bowles than they did with Horton.

The new coach is hiring his friends as assistants and bringing in guys he is familiar with as players just like every new coach does. That's not culture changing. That's just normal.

Michael Bidwill and Steve Keim were part of the group that took a team that won back to back NFC West titles and turned it into a disaster just last season. Did they ride together to Damascus or something that caused this sudden great change in culture?

Until proven otherwise they're still the 5-11 with 'em. 5-11 without 'em. Cardinals.

First-----Michael's power was not all of a sudden 10 years ago. Neither was Keims. Michael has gained power slowly from his father. He was only given ultimate control of football operations when his father chose between him and Bill Jr. about 3 or 4 years ago.

I don't know how you can even say that Keim was even instrumental in the draft until last year, (and that was only because he refused to draft O-linemen who were road-grader types, opting instead for pass protectors first). His power, as a scout, and even head of scouting was so far below Whiz' influence that he was not even a factor. Only last year, when he was made a vice president, did he even have the power to challenge Whiz on the O-linemen.

If you want to come off as stupid for clinging to the falsehood that Michael and Keim created the mess that Whiz brought us, go ahead, but don't try to get the rest of us to buy into that stupidity. Michael was given power slowly by Mr. B. He first gave him the assignment of building the new Stadium. When he was so successful with that, he was made a VP. Only then did he BEGIN to have functions of football operations, and when they clashed with Bill Jr.'s, he was finally given the title of VP in charge of football operations. Bill Jr. took that very hard.

Whiz had wording in his contract renewal giving him final say in personnel. If you will recall, he even dumped Leinart, a few scant days after he had that wording in place when his contract was renewed. Knowing that, Michael did not even challenge Whiz for dumping the QBOF that Denny Green had convinced Michael that we needed. Make no mistake about it, Leinart was the Bidwill family's choice for QBOF.

Today, Michael is firmly in charge of football operations, and Keim is HIS true GM, and has the authority to make selections on personnel that he NEVER had before. I don't believe that Graves ever had the formal title of GM in this organization, (though he did all the contract work). Both Buddy Ryan, and Denny Green were their own GM's when it came to personnel selection. I don't know how much, (or even if), Graves challenged Whiz on personnel selection, but I know he didn't have any say against either Ryan or Green. I think the family wanted Graves to become a true GM, but it became painfully clear that he was incapable of doing so.

Whiz was responsible for who we hired when he was HC. Graves was mostly responsible for those contracts that he failed to renew when trying to negotiate with agents of veteran players. Graves was the one who would bring in vets for visits in free agency, then let them leave town without even making an offer. THAT is where the culture has changed.

Keim has the say on who we select, and he has a policy that pretty much says, 'this is my offer, if you leave town without signing it, it is void'. He was extremely decisive in his contract negotiations this off season, and that is totally out of character for this franchise, EVER. Now, that will change as negotiations get underway with future renewals, but that was pretty much how it was done this off season. You can take it to the bank, that so long as Keim performs as he did this off season, he will remain Michael's GM. He has the authority to negotiate contracts, and finalize them, that Graves never was capable of doing.

The other major culture change going on here is the trust between the ownership, the front office, the staff, and the players. It now goes both ways, (as seen with players being trusted to provide crucial information concerning the hiring, (and handling), of other players). These people all trust each other. That was not so true before. Ownership, under Mr. B. was always suspicious, and reluctant to release power. Whiz expected complete trust from his players, but almost never returned that trust, often tossing players to the dump when one failed to live up to his expectations, or when he was finished with him.

Whether or not the W/L column changes, the culture here has changed, and changed for the better. No other group in this franchise's history has cleared the way for change, (and then effectively and efficiently gone about making those necessary changes in one off season). Buddy Ryan ran off all of Joe Bugel's offense, but he never replaced them with necessary talent. Denny Green brought in needed talent, but couldn't turn them into winners on the field.

If you require a boost in the Win column to acknowledge that change here, so be it. Just don't expect the rest of us to remain blind to the change that has already occurred.
 

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