Chandler Jones requested a trade

[Cheesebeef]

David Johnson too -- but your reply is spot on. I think there's traditionally been more ego on the defensive side of the ball and players not feeling like they are being shown their worth (despite them not getting as much as the Cards were offering on the open market - hence proving the team right). This excludes Campbell.

they did Dansby dirty multiple times. Once right in the beginning of his prime and then even after he came back years later on a one year prove it deal where he was a beast again... and we didn’t offer another contract despite knowing that Washington had drug problems and couldn’t be counted on.

 

[football karma]

they did Dansby dirty multiple times. Once right in the beginning of his prime and then even after he came back years later on a one year prove it deal where he was a beast again... and we didn’t offer another contract despite knowing that Washington had drug problems and couldn’t be counted on.

Los was underrated

i know that Graves thought he had Dansby extended once, and IIRC, Los fired his agent -- - but you are still right

 

[Metcalf Rules]

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Didn’t they make Budda Baker the highest paid safety last year?

 

[SoonerLou]

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[Cheesebeef]

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had we resigned Reddick, signed Watt and made this trade, I would have been all for this. Still could have signed Butler. Would have kept our good pass rush together from last year while adding Watt and Rhodes and Butler. That would have been a bang up off-season for this defense.

 

[TaylorSwift]

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this should fire-able offense

 

[SoonerLou]

had we resigned Reddick, signed Watt and made this trade, I would have been all for this. Still could have signed Butler. Would have kept our good pass rush together from last year while adding Watt and Rhodes and Butler. That would have been a bang up off-season for this defense.

If only real life was as simple as Madden. Switch Simmons to Chandler's spot. Keep Hicks and Zaven as the ILBs.

 

[DVontel]

If only real life was as simple as Madden. Switch Simmons to Chandler's spot. Keep Hicks and Zaven as the ILBs.

Why in the blue hell would you do that lol

 

[Cheesebeef]

If only real life was as simple as Madden. Switch Simmons to Chandler's spot. Keep Hicks and Zaven as the ILBs.

why is any of this Madden? Literally every one of those moves would have made sense and fill needs that were otherwise filled.

 

[SoonerLou]

Why in the blue hell would you do that lol

Emphasis on Madden.

Simmons is really good at OLB/Rush End on the game.

 

[BritCard]

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This is a no brainer deal. A 31 year old OLB coming off injury with one year left on their deal vs a 28 year old CB that had 10 INT's last year?

I can't believe Keim would turn that down.

 

[DVontel]

This is a no brainer deal. A 31 year old OLB coming off injury with one year left on their deal vs a 28 year old CB that had 10 INT's last year?

I can't believe Keim would turn that down.

Xavien has DV history + durability is a bit worrisome. I can see why Keim turned that down.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Howard may not be a good fit scheme-wise. PP was less effective in Joseph's scheme. Howard may be in the same boat and be more of a man to man CB than zone.

 

[kerouac9]

Don’t think Joseph wants or needs top-shelf CBS in his scheme. Like having a Ferrari as a daily driver. Fun to have, but kind of a waste.

That’s probably the best argument for a PP7 comeback season in Minny— just a bad scheme fit and Peterson wasn’t quite good enough anymore for a DC to design his defense around.

 

[BigDavis75]

Howard may not be a good fit scheme-wise. PP was less effective in Joseph's scheme. Howard may be in the same boat and be more of a man to man CB than zone.

Howard is significantly better than Peterson. I don’t care if he’s a scheme fit I would love to have a top 3 cb.

 

[Chopper0080]

Howard is significantly better than Peterson. I don’t care if he’s a scheme fit I would love to have a top 3 cb.

I think the point is that the value of Howard is diminished if you are not going to have him do things that would make you give up significant assets to trade for and then pay him top dollar.

 

[Finito]

Howard is significantly better than Peterson. I don’t care if he’s a scheme fit I would love to have a top 3 cb.

scheme 100% matters for a CB.

 

[BritCard]

Howard may not be a good fit scheme-wise. PP was less effective in Joseph's scheme. Howard may be in the same boat and be more of a man to man CB than zone.

I think Vance played a bunch more zone last year, and historically he's always been much more of a zone guy as DC in Miami. The man thing seems to have been forced on him when he came here.

Statistically most teams still play more zone than man. The most man coverage heavy teams still top out at about 55% and on average you normally find most seasons only 3-4 teams played more than 50% man.

I'm not sure which way we are going to go. Alford has generally played both about the same. Butler is better in man. Murphy is better in zone. None of our CB's have the speed to play press man so it's going to be off man at best.

It's a bit of a mish mash scheme fit wise but I expect it's going to be close to 51/49 either way man vs zone.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think the point is that the value of Howard is diminished if you are not going to have him do things that would make you give up significant assets to trade for and then pay him top dollar.

Right this isn't Madden. Howard wants another big pay day and so does Jones. I think sometimes you'd rather deal with the devil you know.

I would be more amendable to trading for and resigning Howard if he was younger as well. He's 28 which isn't old, but he might start to fall off near the end of the contract and he is going to want to get serious coin.

 

[BigDavis75]

scheme 100% matters for a CB.

It’s not like the Cardinals don’t run a fair amount of man. It also seems like people are saying Vance is incapable of adapting to any personnel changes.

Adding an edit: I think it's better to actually look at what's observable about schemes and make an assessment from that information. From PFF: "Joseph called Cover 1 on early downs at the fifth-highest rate in the league last season, choosing to blitz at the fourth-highest rate. The problem was that they couldn’t quite get to the quarterback in those blitzing situations, as they managed a 22nd-ranked 38.4% pressure rate on those snaps."

All teams run some mix of man and zone and tweaks should be made to a scheme to maximize the talents of your defenders and put your defense into a position to succeed. I'm sure Howard would excel regardless of the mix as he is an excellent corner, even if he is marginally better in man than zone. Corners change defenses and are successful just like it happens at every single other position in the NFL.

Even if you think the Cardinals run almost no man, that Xavien would be pedestrian in zone and that Vance would not give him a chance to succeed we have a gaping hole at corner and are discussing the main asset in this trade, in Chandler, being an older player coming off a season ending injury.

 

[Chopper0080]

It’s not like the Cardinals don’t run a fair amount of man. It also seems like people are saying Vance is incapable of adapting to any personnel changes.

Adding an edit: I think it's better to actually look at what's observable about schemes and make an assessment from that information. From PFF: "Joseph called Cover 1 on early downs at the fifth-highest rate in the league last season, choosing to blitz at the fourth-highest rate. The problem was that they couldn’t quite get to the quarterback in those blitzing situations, as they managed a 22nd-ranked 38.4% pressure rate on those snaps."

All teams run some mix of man and zone and tweaks should be made to a scheme to maximize the talents of your defenders and put your defense into a position to succeed. I'm sure Howard would excel regardless of the mix as he is an excellent corner, even if he is marginally better in man than zone. Corners change defenses and are successful just like it happens at every single other position in the NFL.

Even if you think the Cardinals run almost no man, that Xavien would be pedestrian in zone and that Vance would not give him a chance to succeed we have a gaping hole at corner and are discussing the main asset in this trade, in Chandler, being an older player coming off a season ending injury.

It isn't about can Vance make adjustments or can Howard do it, it is that Vance will not completely change his scheme to accommodate Howard and if Howard is not playing predominately a man-scheme, he isn't really worth the 1st rounder and 18 mil per year that he wants.

 

[Chopper0080]

The issue with Howard is the cost to acquire him. You have to give up players or picks and give him a new large new contract. That is a lot to give up for a guy when the scheme he is playing in won't maximize his talents. Like trading for and paying top dollar for a RB to then put in a RBBC where he is only on the field 50% of the snaps.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

this should fire-able offense

Has Powers reached the Boomer Esiason level of contempt for the Cardinals, yet?

 

[juza76]

Has Powers reached the Boomer Esiason level of contempt for the Cardinals, yet?

Ex cards player, smart guy, one of our former defensive coordinator favourite players
He has connections with someone obviously, guess with a guy like Buckner

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Ex cards player, smart guy, one of our former defensive coordinator favourite players
He has connections with someone obviously, guess with a guy like Buckner

I'm not questioning his connections...just his motives. He's acting like Keim stole his girlfriend.