Charles Barkley: The Suns 'pinning themselves in a corner' with 3-guard system

[sunsfan88]

A week ago, Phoenix Suns point guard Isaiah Thomas said he thinks "everybody's getting comfortable with everybody," and the rotation of point guards is "hitting the stride."

Former Suns player and current NBA analyst Charles Barkley begs to differ.

Barkley told Arizona Sports 98.7's Bickley and Marotta Tuesday he thinks the Suns are "pinning themselves in a corner" with the utilization of three guards.

"I think they have made a mistake," he said. "I don't think you can have your two guards with $70 million deals and think your team is going to be competitive."

He's referring to Goran Dragic and Eric Bledsoe -- "two terrific guards," -- and said it's clear the Suns have been struggling all year trying to figure out where to play their third in Isaiah Thomas.

The problem according to Barkley is that all three guards are offensively-minded.

"And they all want the ball," he said.

The three guards are all Phoenix's leading scorers and average a combined 57.1 points per game, which is more than half of the Suns' 107.4 total points per game average (third overall in the league). The Suns also have a 23-15 record when all three guards are healthy and play.

Yet for all that offensive production, with a three-guard rotation the team will always be at a defensive disadvantage, Barkley said. The Suns allow 105.3 points per game (28th in the league).

Barkley said they need bigger guys down low and won't get to the next level by playing "small ball," especially in the Western conference.

"You're not going to beat Memphis, you're not going to beat Portland, you're not going to beat Dallas…I don't like small ball," he said. "That's one of my pet peeves."

And, he added, you can't pay a good big if you're paying three point guards.

"You've got to pay big guys at some point," he said."You've got to get some good quality big guys."

http://arizonasports.com/41/1802508...ing-themselves-in-a-corner-with-3guard-system

Man other than the part of him not counting Len as a quality big man, I couldn't agree more with every single word he said.

 

[Shaggy]

You think? You think having all of them on this team is a problem? I think they were doing well for several games until the morris twins started playing crappy.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

Barkley's error is in assuming that this is the end result. Its not. Quality big guys are hard to find. It was a minor miracle that we were able to get Barkley. If someone becomes available and we can get him by giving up one of our guards, I have no doubt that our GM would pull the trigger.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Barkley is a clown, he's there mostly for comedic relief. He doesn't follow the Suns despite the fact he claims the valley as his home. He's right but he's still clueless. There are a lot of big teams that can't beat Memphis. Adding a 3rd guard isn't going to keep us from beating them, having less talent will usually take care of that. It's not like we took a look at Anthony Davis and said, nah, give me that little guy that played for the Kings instead.

And I love how people trot out some team like Memphis. This is a team that started their rebuild back in 06 or so. With Gasol (you know, one of those great big guys) as their key player they won 27 games. Then they drafted Conley and managed to average 24 wins per season for the next 2 years. In 09 they added their 3rd key figure to their nucleus and the trio of Gasol, Conley and Randolph led them to a 40-42 record. Over the past 5 years with that trio in place they have lost in a conference final, lost in a conference semi, lost twice in the 1st round and missed the playoffs once. Good thing they're big.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I never thought the Suns planned to keep all of their rotation PGs. At some time I think the Suns planned to trade one, perhaps IT, but there is a glut of PGs on the market so the Suns sit on their assets.

 

[hcsilla]

Barkley is a clown, he's there mostly for comedic relief. He doesn't follow the Suns despite the fact he claims the valley as his home. He's right but he's still clueless. There are a lot of big teams that can't beat Memphis. Adding a 3rd guard isn't going to keep us from beating them, having less talent will usually take care of that. It's not like we took a look at Anthony Davis and said, nah, give me that little guy that played for the Kings instead.

And I love how people trot out some team like Memphis. This is a team that started their rebuild back in 06 or so. With Gasol (you know, one of those great big guys) as their key player they won 27 games. Then they drafted Conley and managed to average 24 wins per season for the next 2 years. In 09 they added their 3rd key figure to their nucleus and the trio of Gasol, Conley and Randolph led them to a 40-42 record. Over the past 5 years with that trio in place they have lost in a conference final, lost in a conference semi, lost twice in the 1st round and missed the playoffs once. Good thing they're big.

Steve

, very good post.

 

[sunsfan88]

I never thought the Suns planned to keep all of their rotation PGs. At some time I think the Suns planned to trade one, perhaps IT, but there is a glut of PGs on the market so the Suns sit on their assets.

I think with PGs being so strong around the NBA, ours don't have as much value as people think they do.

I could see a scenario where the Suns having to give up an asset just to dump IT's long contract.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sorry but much of what he says is spot on. People don't like it because it's directed at us. Suns fans at large loved it when he was here directing it outward.

Big mouth or not....he nailed much of what he said even if it's not very analytic. Ofcourse the Suns are going to win games here and there. However, long term success or in the playoffs? He is right.

 

[sunsfan88]

I wonder if Chuck was watching on his own TNT channel when the 3 PG got WRECKED by the Blazers proving him 100% right.

 

[Covert Rain]

I wonder if Chuck was watching on his own TNT channel when the 3 PG got WRECKED by the Blazers proving him 100% right.

HA! I always wondered how they watch those games. You know the huge screens they have in the studio with some of these shows? I wonder if they watch them on those or if they go back to the green room or something.

 

[BC867]

I wonder if Chuck was watching on his own TNT channel when the 3 PG got WRECKED by the Blazers proving him 100% right.

I wonder if Jeff Hornacek was watching.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I wonder if Jeff Hornacek was watching.

Clearly some of you guys weren't. Despite the fact that Goran and IT were having bad nights, we fought all the way back in that game and even took a lead. We fell apart when we lost our center to a sprained ankle. Horrible nights by other big men such as Wright and Plumlee didn't help much either.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

Clearly some of you guys weren't. Despite the fact that Goran and IT were having bad nights, we fought all the way back in that game and even took a lead. We fell apart when we lost our center to a sprained ankle. Horrible nights by other big men such as Wright and Plumlee didn't help much either.

Steve

That is EXACTLY the point. Having big men you can't rely on and basically depending on the the guards to do all the work...expend that much energy to fight back.......then lose the game? That proves the point. Having some big dependable bodies out there to fight defensively to hold on to the game and get some easy buckets down low is exactly what this team is missing sometimes even without injuries.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That is EXACTLY the point. Having big men you can't rely on and basically depending on the the guards to do all the work...expend that much energy to fight back.......then lose the game? That proves the point. Having some big dependable bodies out there to fight defensively to hold on to the game and get some easy buckets down low is exactly what this team is missing sometimes even without injuries.

It proves what point? Is there a single person on this board that doesn't believe we have an imbalanced roster? Plumlee sucks because he sucks, not because Eric, Goran or IT are talented. Same goes with Marcus and anyone else we've plugged in at the 4 spot. Add in the fact that our starting small forward is a below average player and the only thing keeping our head under water is our trio of point guards.

This isn't the best way to play the game, I think we all know that. Barkley was talking like some of the people here were/are. As if our goal was to have 3 good point guards and 0 good big men. We're just in the early stages of a rebuild. We need Alex to improve a lot, we need Keef to continue to improve, we need to replace PJ in the starting lineup and we need to upgrade our backup 4 and backup 5.

We will probably have to move Goran and Thomas to get closer to where we want to be but the goal won't be to weaken the guard positions. We'll probably add another quick point guard in the draft and hope that he, Ennis and that Bog guy can give us what our trio does currently.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

It proves what point? Is there a single person on this board that doesn't believe we have an imbalanced roster? Plumlee sucks because he sucks, not because Eric, Goran or IT are talented. Same goes with Marcus and anyone else we've plugged in at the 4 spot. Add in the fact that our starting small forward is a below average player and the only thing keeping our head under water is our trio of point guards.

This isn't the best way to play the game, I think we all know that. Barkley was talking like some of the people here were/are. As if our goal was to have 3 good point guards and 0 good big men. We're just in the early stages of a rebuild. We need Alex to improve a lot, we need Keef to continue to improve, we need to replace PJ in the starting lineup and we need to upgrade our backup 4 and backup 5.

We will probably have to move Goran and Thomas to get closer to where we want to be but the goal won't be to weaken the guard positions. We'll probably add another quick point guard in the draft and hope that he, Ennis and that Bog guy can give us what our trio does currently.

Steve

You don't think this team made a conscience decision to focus on the guard position and put a system around it? Come on. That is exactly what they did. Yes, you are right...every team in the NBA wants quality big men (including the Suns). However, very few teams say hey....let's put a guard heavy system in place and see what happens. I think that is his point and he is right.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You don't think this team made a conscience decision to focus on the guard position and put a system around it? Come on. That is exactly what they did. Yes, you are right...every team in the NBA wants quality big men (including the Suns). However, very few teams say hey....let's put a guard heavy system in place and see what happens. I think that is his point and he is right.

Not at all. Bledsoe fell in our lap. The Clippers wanted JJ Redick and needed to involve a 3rd team to make it happen. Eric was our prize for facilitating, they sure as heck weren't going to give us Jordan. Thomas was the only good player sitting free that was willing to consider us. Other than the three big names there just wasn't much available this past offseason. But I agree about what his point is. IMO, he is dead wrong.

McDonough was and still is just trying to add value to the roster regardless of position or fit. I'll bet you that at least one of our 3 guards is gone by the start of next season and I wouldn't be shocked to see 2 of them elsewhere.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

You don't think this team made a conscience decision to focus on the guard position and put a system around it? Come on. That is exactly what they did. Yes, you are right...every team in the NBA wants quality big men (including the Suns). However, very few teams say hey....let's put a guard heavy system in place and see what happens. I think that is his point and he is right.

When you build a house, you start with a foundation. It's possible the Suns consider the guard position our foundation, and now we are in the midst of building the rest of the house. The point is that the foundation is laid, but the project is far from over.

The real question on February 6th, 2015 is if that foundation is solid enough to support the rest of the future build. Looking at our record, I'd venture to say the Suns think it is, even though 90% of the people here do not. But that doesn't mean the house is finished.

 

[elindholm]

When you build a house, you start with a foundation. It's possible the Suns consider the guard position our foundation, and now we are in the midst of building the rest of the house. The point is that the foundation is laid, but the project is far from over.

That's a legitimate analogy only to a point. Yes, to build a house you start with a foundation -- but a complete foundation. You don't lay half of a foundation and then construct walls on top of it, before the groundwork for the other half of the structure is laid.

Why? Because there will inevitably be imbalances and other defects in the construction process, even if you end up building a luxury mansion. If you neglect one part while building too fast somewhere else, there's an excellent chance that you'll have to tear down your work once you discover that it doesn't fit with the overall plan.

Investing heavily in three PGs wasn't a bad move for the present situaiton; it was just a waste of time for the long term. Even the biggest optimists on this board know that the Dragic/Bledsoe/Thomas trio isn't a permanent solution. So it's like making one corner of the new house beautiful to try to attract buyers, knowing full well that it will have to be demoed and rebuilt properly once the rest of the material shows up.

 

[Covert Rain]

Not at all. Bledsoe fell in our lap. The Clippers wanted JJ Redick and needed to involve a 3rd team to make it happen. Eric was our prize for facilitating, they sure as heck weren't going to give us Jordan. Thomas was the only good player sitting free that was willing to consider us. Other than the three big names there just wasn't much available this past offseason. But I agree about what his point is. IMO, he is dead wrong.

McDonough was and still is just trying to add value to the roster regardless of position or fit. I'll bet you that at least one of our 3 guards is gone by the start of next season and I wouldn't be shocked to see 2 of them elsewhere.

Steve

I don't buy it. The Suns actively seek out 3 way trade partners for players they are interested in when they can't get something going on a 1 on 1 trade. The front office even said they were going to pursue other types of deals. The Sun had a short list of players they wanted and Bledsoe was one of them. I seriously doubt the Suns just happen to get a player they felt the needed because of a phone call from another team.

Also, just because you can't land a big man doesn't mean you build your team around a 3 guard system and lock a ton of money in it. That's a completely different scenario than going with what you got. Let's see what the Suns do over the next season or so with all these contracts. Hopefully it's just to showcase some guys to move them. However, Barkley may be stating the obvious with a guard scenario but that doesn't make him any less wrong about it.

Bledso didn't have to be resigned for 70 million, Goran doesn't have to be resigned and we could be taking more shots with acquiring big men versus more guards. Ofcourse that doesn't mean any of those scenarios work out but it definitely appears to be a conscience decision to build around guards on this team to me.

When you build a house, you start with a foundation. It's possible the Suns consider the guard position our foundation, and now we are in the midst of building the rest of the house. The point is that the foundation is laid, but the project is far from over.

The real question on February 6th, 2015 is if that foundation is solid enough to support the rest of the future build. Looking at our record, I'd venture to say the Suns think it is, even though 90% of the people here do not. But that doesn't mean the house is finished.

It's possible and plausible since the Suns have done that before (building around the guard position). The Suns can't tie up all their eggs in the guard basket IMO. I honestly believe the team is just showcases chess pieces to move around the board. If your two best players are going to be your PG and SG with the majority of your cap at those two positions?? I don't see much hope of long term success unless you get another Jordan.

 

[devilalum]

If you were looking for a PG and got offered LBJ for spare parts would you turn them down?
If GS offered Curry for Miles Plumlee would you turn them down because you already have 3 point guards?

 

[Covert Rain]

If you were looking for a PG and got offered LBJ for spare parts would you turn them down?
If GS offered Curry for Miles Plumlee would you turn them down because you already have 3 point guards?

Well if your going to go with an unrealistic hypothetical....I would go back in time and somehow draft Jordan...then bring him to the future.

 

[sunsfan88]

You don't think this team made a conscience decision to focus on the guard position and put a system around it? Come on. That is exactly what they did. Yes, you are right...every team in the NBA wants quality big men (including the Suns). However, very few teams say hey....let's put a guard heavy system in place and see what happens. I think that is his point and he is right.

It really would not be surprise me to see the Suns resign Dragic and then still sign Reggie Jackson to a big contract.

The reasoning behind it will be "Well we want two fresh proven PGs in the game at all times".

 

[Covert Rain]

It really would not be surprise me to see the Suns resign Dragic and then still sign Reggie Jackson to a big contract.

The reasoning behind it will be "Well we want two fresh proven PGs in the game at all times".

Oh boy...and what does that do to our cap in terms of being able to sign arguably the most import positions on the team (big men)?

 

[Phrazbit]

Oh boy...and what does that do to our cap in terms of being able to sign arguably the most import positions on the team (big men)?

Give me a break, you dismiss devilalum's obviously exaggerated for effect hypothetical because its unrealistic, then you take SF88's patented nonsense as a serious consideration?

 

[slinslin]

It really would not be surprise me to see the Suns resign Dragic and then still sign Reggie Jackson to a big contract.

The reasoning behind it will be "Well we want two fresh proven PGs in the game at all times".

It would not surprise me if you continued to contribute so greatly to Suns message boards to enlighten everyone.