Chicago Sun-Times: Suns/Bulls/Lakers trade?

[azirish]

I went back and looked at Marion's early numbers. In year 1 (99-00), he shot 47.1% and averaged 10.1 ppg and 6.5 rpg in just 24.7 minutes.

Year 2 two he averaged 17.3 ppg on 48% shooting and had 10.7 rpg in 36.2 minutes.

Year 3 he averaged 19.1 ppg on 46.9% (but went 48 of 122 for three) and grabbed 9.9 rgp

Year 4 (2002-03) he averaged 21.2 ppg on 45.2% (but shot 38.7% for three) and grabbed 9.5 rpg

Year 5 (2003-04) he averaged 19.0 ppg on 44% and grabbed 9.3 rpg (his three point shooting dropped to 34.0%)

Year 6 (2004-05) he averaged 19.4 ppg on 47.6% and grabbed 11.3 rpg

Year 7 (2005-06) he averaged 21.8 ppg on 52.5% and grabbed 11.8 rpg)

Year 8 (2006-07) he averaged 17.5 ppg on 52.4% and grabbed 9.8 rpg)

The most obvious conclusion is that playing with Nash did not change his scoring but did help his shooting percentage. The faster pace helped his rebounding stats although a healthy Stoudemire hurt is overall stats.

 

[HooverDam]

^Speaking of Amare effecting Marions numbers....Amares stats generally increase in the playoffs. His increased scoring could certainly be part of the reason why Marion averages one less bucket a game or so in the playoffs, I'd bet Marion also has a shot attempt less or two in the playoffs as well. Either way, the changes in Marions numbers year to year or from the regular season to the playoffs are not drastic enough really even be discussing, positively or negatively.

 

[green machine]

You're points about Marions production have been repeatedly debunked in this thread as myths, so now you've resorted to some abstract argument that the 'current Marion' is nothing w/ out Nash. Ok, well, 1. thats an unprovable assertion, 2. We have Nash, so what does it matter even if it were true?



Sure, maybe Marion could've improved his numbers more, but again, you're really grasping at straws here. He was already a fairly developed player when he came into the league, and wasn't a project like a lot of players .So he didn't have as much room to grow, which is fine. I find it absurd to be upset with 17-21 points a game and 9-12 rebounds, plus solid defense against 4 or 5 positions, and good steal and block numbers. Who cares if he hasn't grown into some 30 point, 12 rebound a night guy? Thats what Amare is for.

The Marion bashers will never quit with their illogical, non statistical, unrealistic hate, so I should probably just forget about it, but its very frustrating.

We all see the numbers differently. I look at the bad games and numbers as proof for my side, and you use the good for yours. Nothing wrong with that.

As far as Marion coming into the league with a developed game, what basketball skills did he come into the league with? Jumping and running fast are athletic ability, not basketball skills. At this point in his career he still can't drive to the hoop, can't post anyone up, can't box out, can't dribble, and is a very inconsistent shooter.

 

[azirish]

We all see the numbers differently. I look at the bad games and numbers as proof for my side, and you use the good for yours. Nothing wrong with that.

As far as Marion coming into the league with a developed game, what basketball skills did he come into the league with? Jumping and running fast are athletic ability, not basketball skills. At this point in his career he still can't drive to the hoop, can't post anyone up, can't box out, can't dribble, and is a very inconsistent shooter.

His only "developed" skill he had was rebounding. In his first year he averaged .263 per minute which is just amazing for a guy who played much of the time on the wing.

 

[green machine]

^Speaking of Amare effecting Marions numbers....Amares stats generally increase in the playoffs. His increased scoring could certainly be part of the reason why Marion averages one less bucket a game or so in the playoffs, I'd bet Marion also has a shot attempt less or two in the playoffs as well. Either way, the changes in Marions numbers year to year or from the regular season to the playoffs are not drastic enough really even be discussing, positively or negatively.

Hoover you've watched the playoff games though, yet, you don't see how passive Marion is on the offensive side of the court? Most of the time he just stands around the three point line and when he gets the ball, unless he is right under the hoop, he plays hot potato with it and passes it to the nearest teammate.

 

[azirish]

Hoover you've watched the playoff games though, yet, you don't see how passive Marion is on the offensive side of the court? Most of the time he just stands around the three point line and when he gets the ball, unless he is right under the hoop, he plays hot potato with it and passes it to the nearest teammate.

Marion does not change during the playoffs. That's what he does most of the season. The difference is that the team runs and the refs won't let teams grab and hold to prevent fast breaks like they do in the playoffs.

BTW, it sounded (radio) like the team was putting more emphasis on using cutters than in the past. I hope so, because that is a far better use of Marion than as a shooter.

 

[mribnik]

The one thing I don't like about Marion is that he seems reluctant to just take his guy off the dribble and go to the basket. In the game where Amare and Diaw were suspended I remember one play in the first half where he got the ball at the 3 point line in the corner and he drove right by his guy on the baseline and got a dunk. I didn't see him attempt it again the entire series. He really has the ability to do that but he rarely does (especially on the baseline).

 

[BC867]

Marion does not change during the playoffs. That's what he does most of the season. The difference is that the team runs and the refs won't let teams grab and hold to prevent fast breaks like they do in the playoffs.

And that's why quoting Marion's stats has little bearing on the Suns winning a Championship.

This is not golf or bowling. There's a guy in your face and you must be stronger than he is to go all the way. Marion has not been that. Let's just say that he's in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The one thing I don't like about Marion is that he seems reluctant to just take his guy off the dribble and go to the basket.

Ever since Marion was undercut near the basket, he's been gun shy. A small Power Forward (6'7". 230) who stays 22 feet from the basket except in a breakaway situation . . . and gets opportunity rebounds rather than one-on-one rebounds.