Chicago Sun-Times: Suns/Bulls/Lakers trade?

YouJustGotSUNSD

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Half nash's assists are dishing to a marion-oop. He will have to work twice as hard to keep his ast/to ratio where it is, plus he is losing a 20/10 player for young projects. It doesnt get him closer to the ring or put him any deeper into win-now mode
 

jandaman

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Marion is a stud, posting up 12 points 18 rebounds 4 steals without Nash, is redundant considering those numbers are PHENOMENAL!

The points are lower, as expected.


But the thing with Marion and why the Suns should keep him is that he rebounds, runs, finishes, and plays above average D (excellent passing lane defense though) and versatility.


Suns would be dead last in rebounding if Marion is traded for another scorer.


A healthy AK + Milsap was still the worthy trade for Marion, but that looks to be shot.



Kobe is only good if the Suns can get PJ off the retirement list and somehow, play Skinner and Marks a lot... Kobe won't grab 10 rebounds.

Scoring is the last thing the Suns need really, heck they have a 20ppg off the bench....

If the Suns didnt have Nash or Bell, then Kobe would be good... inside outside threat with Amare.

But in a team without Marion, this is the lineup... Nash/Bell/Kobe/Diaw/Stoudemire.
Thats as skilled as you can get for a regular NBA team. But foul trouble in Stoudemire.... you get Nash/Bell/Kobe/Hill/Diaw.... forget rebounding, this team will score 130 a game, but the elite teams in the west will have career games for their front line.... the perimeter defense increase though... not much.

Marion guards the perimeter and the inside competently... Kobe does a good job on the perimeter only.
 

WuRaider

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From phxsuns.net

A buddy was telling me that he is hearing on Bickley and MJ that the Suns are back in the three team talks with LA and Chicago and that we are talking about getting Noccioni, Noah and Sefolosha. I know we have to be tempted because we loved Noah and Sefolosha in those given drafts.

Plan A: F the Bulls and get Kobe ourselves

Plan B: Give up Marion and get Noccioni, Noah, and Sefolosha back?

Nash/Bell/Hill/Diaw/Amare
LB/Noah/Noch/Sefo/DJ/Skinner

DEEEEEEP
 

scoutmasterdave

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Plan B: Give up Marion and get Noccioni, Noah, and Sefolosha back?

Nash/Bell/Hill/Diaw/Amare
LB/Noah/Noch/Sefo/DJ/Skinner

DEEEEEEP

Don't hate the trade. I think I'd rather have Thomas than Noah, but either way, not bad. Only problem is that Nocioni can't be traded until 12/15/07 - he's a recently signed free agent.
 

Cheesebeef

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From phxsuns.net



Plan A: F the Bulls and get Kobe ourselves

Plan B: Give up Marion and get Noccioni, Noah, and Sefolosha back?

Nash/Bell/Hill/Diaw/Amare
LB/Noah/Noch/Sefo/DJ/Skinner

DEEEEEEP

that's a pretty solid trade IMO. Gives us size, shot blocking, youth and depth.
 

cly2tw

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I'd rather have Tyrus T than Noah though. And Nocioni just signed a contract higher than Diaw's.
 

Rab

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Well, I suppose everything now depends on how desperate the Lakers are. Would they consider dealing with the Suns directly?
I posted on another board, that I think the media will turn it's attention to the Suns. The Mavs eliminated themselves, as did the Bulls, so that just leaves the Suns as a team that Kobe wanted to go to. I don't think anything will happen, but the media will try and keep the Kobe fire burning, and PHX seems like the place a lot of people would like to see him go.
 

D-Dogg

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And the beat goes on.

Once Kerr comes out and says they aren't looking at Kobe the media will scratch its collective ass and then we'll see some REALLY wild rumors.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Why are they expected? Because he cannot do anything on the offensive end of the court without Nash.

That's my point.

Sigh...

Another myth. Marion's numbers were identical regardless of whether it was Kidd, Marbury, Barbosa, or Nash.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Here is my take on this trade:

When was the last time someone traded an all star for some young talent and it ended up working out the best for the team that gave up the all star?
 

Mulli

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Here is my take on this trade:

When was the last time someone traded an all star for some young talent and it ended up working out the best for the team that gave up the all star?
Vlade for Kobe. Just kidding. Couldn't think of anything else. :)
 

Chris_Sanders

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Vlade for Kobe. Just kidding. Couldn't think of anything else. :)

No that counts, even if it was 12 years ago.

I would say Grant Hill for Ben Wallace as well (similiar time frame)

Anything this decade?
 

Louis

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From another thread, here was my post:

Sweet, take 4 games out of a season and claim that as proof positive.

There are several seasons worth of stats pre-Nash for Marion

And for those thinking Paxson quashed the deal with his comments.

Wasn't it just a few days ago Torre flat out denied the Dodgers rumor that Little was on his way out and Torre in?
 
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green machine

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Sigh...

Another myth. Marion's numbers were identical regardless of whether it was Kidd, Marbury, Barbosa, or Nash.

Sweet, take 4 games out of a season and claim that as proof positive.

There are several seasons worth of stats pre-Nash for Marion

And for those thinking Paxson quashed the deal with his comments.

Wasn't it just a few days ago Torre flat out denied the Dodgers rumor that Little was on his way out and Torre in?

The current version of Marion is nothing without Nash on offense.

I'm not talking about Marion pre-Nash because frankly it doesn't matter. At this point in his career, in the offense the Suns run, Marion is a liability on offense when Nash isn't around.

Really, who cares what he did with Marbury, Kidd, or whoever? It doesn't matter for the here and now.
 

SO91

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Who has seen the "current version" of Marion in this offense without Nash? It has happened a handful of games, not enough of a sample to make a definitive conclusion. Also, Marion hasn't changed much from when he started his career. So how "at this point in his career" is he any different. He's always relied on his athleticism to get his points, and he's still one of the best athletes in the league. If he has played the same way with and without Nash, why do the previous years not matter?
 

green machine

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Who has seen the "current version" of Marion in this offense without Nash? It has happened a handful of games, not enough of a sample to make a definitive conclusion. Also, Marion hasn't changed much from when he started his career. So how "at this point in his career" is he any different. He's always relied on his athleticism to get his points, and he's still one of the best athletes in the league. If he has played the same way with and without Nash, why do the previous years not matter?

Because Nash hides many of the flaws in the "current Marion's" game. You think he's the exact same athlete as he was 8 years ago?

Also, the fact that he hasn't changed much from the start of his career should be deeply disturbing.
 

SO91

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Believe me I'm just as unhappy about the lack of development we've seen out him, so you won't find me defending him on that front. And I absolutely believe he's still nearly as athletic as he was his rookie year, and that is enough for him to still do what he did before Nash. He's had the same flaws his entire career, and still was able to perform (though I believe he's overpayed).
 

HooverDam

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The current version of Marion is nothing without Nash on offense.

I'm not talking about Marion pre-Nash because frankly it doesn't matter. At this point in his career, in the offense the Suns run, Marion is a liability on offense when Nash isn't around.

Really, who cares what he did with Marbury, Kidd, or whoever? It doesn't matter for the here and now.

You're points about Marions production have been repeatedly debunked in this thread as myths, so now you've resorted to some abstract argument that the 'current Marion' is nothing w/ out Nash. Ok, well, 1. thats an unprovable assertion, 2. We have Nash, so what does it matter even if it were true?

Also, the fact that he hasn't changed much from the start of his career should be deeply disturbing.

Sure, maybe Marion could've improved his numbers more, but again, you're really grasping at straws here. He was already a fairly developed player when he came into the league, and wasn't a project like a lot of players .So he didn't have as much room to grow, which is fine. I find it absurd to be upset with 17-21 points a game and 9-12 rebounds, plus solid defense against 4 or 5 positions, and good steal and block numbers. Who cares if he hasn't grown into some 30 point, 12 rebound a night guy? Thats what Amare is for.

The Marion bashers will never quit with their illogical, non statistical, unrealistic hate, so I should probably just forget about it, but its very frustrating.
 

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