Chris Mills

[fordronken]

Dallas is still looking for a defensive player, and they are trying to use contract-soon-to-expire Chris Mills to get it. Would it be worth it to either team to do a trade, straight up(as it works under the cap) of Chris Mills for Bo Outlaw?

 

[scotsman13]

no, bo is one of the big important role players on the suns. if we were to trade him it would hurt our chemisty on our team. to top that off what would we do with mills? are we going to take time away from marion or zarko to play him? bo is a defensive player who you can base your defense off of.

 

[slinslin]

We wouldn't do anything with Mills, but his contract expires which will give us more room to explore options to either trade Googs or give us more cap relief next offseason.

Googs and Mills would be roughly 20M$ off of the cap next offseason.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I wouldnt do that one mostly for chemestry. Mills isn't exactly a good guy or model citizen, remember last season when he stopped the portland buss with a bunch of his friends, where Bo seems to be a great guy and teammate

 

[hcsilla]

I would do this trade at a heartbeat.

But with Najera DAL doesn't really need Outlaw.

 

[slinslin]

We could wave Mills anyway. It is not like we need him as a player.

 

[jbeecham]

I'd trade Bo for Mills in a heartbeat. We've got to do something to get our salary down (although I recently read that the luxury tax probably won't kick in). It would be great if at the end of the season we were rid of Bo's contract, Goog's contract and have Penny get taken in the expansion draft. I think the loss of Bo could hurt us a little bit, but not much. I doubt it would lose us more than a few games.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by jbeecham
I'd trade Bo for Mills in a heartbeat. We've got to do something to get our salary down (although I recently read that the luxury tax probably won't kick in). It would be great if at the end of the season we were rid of Bo's contract, Goog's contract and have Penny get taken in the expansion draft. I think the loss of Bo could hurt us a little bit, but not much. I doubt it would lose us more than a few games.

Bo is worth more to our team, with his contract, than Mills would be for a year and then without his contract.

 

[jbeecham]

That's only if you think that next year will matter. I really don't see us winning the title this season with or without Bo. So I'd rather try to get some salaries off the books so that we might have some more flexibility in the future.

 

[fordronken]

Originally posted by jbeecham
That's only if you think that next year will matter. I really don't see us winning the title this season with or without Bo. So I'd rather try to get some salaries off the books so that we might have some more flexibility in the future.

Do you think we'll win the title before Bo's contract comes off the books anyway?

 

[SweetD]

I say the Suns have a good chance at beating any team in a series... With the team now we can match up with any team out there. With that said small ball will loose to many close games again this year.

 

[jbeecham]

I think we'll have a good chance next year and Bo will still be on our team then, although it will be his final contract year. When I consider the value of Bo vs. the inadequacies of Bo vs. his contract it just doesn't make sense to me to keep him around if there was a way to better our situation at the end of this year.

Also, if Bo isn't in the game then that means there is more time for Amare, Zarko, and the Jakes to develop.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by SweetD
I say the Suns have a good chance at beating any team in a series... With the team now we can match up with any team out there. With that said small ball will loose to many close games again this year.

Actually, small ball will probably keep us in many close games this season. I get as frustrated as the next guy with Frank Johnson's reluctance at times to play big guys. However the truth is that small ball works well much of the time. It's those times when it obviously isn't working where he refuses to play a big man at least just for a few minutes that drive me crazy.

The Phoenix Suns played San Antonio Spurs about as well as anybody else in the playoffs last year. They did it playing small ball. I was fine with the small lineups, but I think it would have been good to at least see what Big Jake could do if only for a few minutes.

I don't know how I really feel about that deal with Bo Outlaw. I actually think Bo Outlaw will be more valuable to the team this season when he will not need to play as many minutes with the hopeful presence of Cabarkapa on the bench. It would be nice to get his salary off the books, but I'm not sure the Phoenix Suns are going to spend any money makes season even without him. He will still have Hardaway, Shawn Marion, and Marbury at maximum contracts. In fact they are going to have to extend Marbury's contract and likely pay him some more. Then they will have to re-sign Joe Johnson and possibly Big Jake.

Joe Mama

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
In fact they are going to have to extend Marbury's contract and likely pay him some more.

Why would Suns have to pay more for Marbury than his last year's 14.5 mil. salary?
Nobody can offer more than the max.

So Marbury probably will have to take a pay-cut and get the actual max. salary.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Actually, small ball will probably keep us in many close games this season. I get as frustrated as the next guy with Frank Johnson's reluctance at times to play big guys. However the truth is that small ball works well much of the time. It's those times when it obviously isn't working where he refuses to play a big man at least just for a few minutes that drive me crazy.

The Phoenix Suns played San Antonio Spurs about as well as anybody else in the playoffs last year. They did it playing small ball. I was fine with the small lineups, but I think it would have been good to at least see what Big Jake could do if only for a few minutes.

I don't know how I really feel about that deal with Bo Outlaw. I actually think Bo Outlaw will be more valuable to the team this season when he will not need to play as many minutes with the hopeful presence of Cabarkapa on the bench. It would be nice to get his salary off the books, but I'm not sure the Phoenix Suns are going to spend any money makes season even without him. He will still have Hardaway, Shawn Marion, and Marbury at maximum contracts. In fact they are going to have to extend Marbury's contract and likely pay him some more. Then they will have to re-sign Joe Johnson and possibly Big Jake.

Joe Mama

I believe this team needs the stability of some veteran players and Bo is well liked by his young teammates. The chemistry of the team is very important and I say, let the young guys develop this year and fine tune the roster next year. Also, those who are so anxious to get rid of Hardaway need to remember what happened when he was out with an injury.

As far as small ball goes, yes, SOMETIMES it works. It makes the game exciting as we yell at FJ & our TV’s as the opposing team’s big guy is having his way - “PUT STONE HANDS IN”. Although I would like to see big Jake get a chance to show what he can do, I am eager to see the F/C combo of Marion, Amare & Cabarkapa (I think I’ll call him “Kapa” for short) can do playing together.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Why would Suns have to pay more for Marbury than his last year's 14.5 mil. salary?
Nobody can offer more than the max.

So Marbury probably will have to take a pay-cut and get the actual max. salary.

I don't feel like looking at up right now, but it was my understanding that as long as there's a team out there that has the room under the salary cap a veteran player like Marbury would never have to take a pay cut to sign a max contract. Another team I'm not be able to offer as much as the Phoenix Suns, but it would still be more than the last year of his previous maximum contract. I can't remember exactly. Seems like after so many years it jumps from 25% of the salary cap to 33% or something like that.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Why would Suns have to pay more for Marbury than his last year's 14.5 mil. salary?
Nobody can offer more than the max.

I don't feel like looking at up right now, but it was my understanding that as long as there's a team out there that has the room under the salary cap a veteran player like Marbury would never have to take a pay cut to sign a max contract.

I think Joe Mama is correct, but no team that is that far under the cap is going to offer Marbury a long-term deal starting at $15+ million per year, even if they can. So hcsilla is right that the Suns will be the only team in realistic position to offer Marbury an "overmax" contract.

Unfortunately, I don't think that necessarily means that Marbury will wind up with a regular max-level extension with Phoenix. Look at what happened with Marion. Rather than wait and see what the market would pay, the front office panicked and signed Marion to a huge extension long in advance. And sure, this can be justified by saying that it was a good public relations move, or they didn't want to make Marion angry (as is happening now with Kenyon Martin), or whatever -- but the fact is, that's what the Suns did.

Why will Marbury's situation be any different? Will the front office have the cajones to hold the line on Marbury, the way they didn't with Marion? Or will they use the same rationalizations to make Marbury one of the ten highest-paid players in the league?

It could go either way, but I certainly wouldn't count on Marbury taking a pay cut. He may never even be asked to.

 

[slinslin]

Actually Marbury is one of the top 10 players in the league so I wouldn't have a problem with the Suns paying him one of the top 10 salaries...

Also I could care less how much the Suns pay our players since we are far over the cap anyway and guesses are there won't even be a luxury tax in 04 and 05.

 

[elindholm]

Actually Marbury is one of the top 10 players in the league so I wouldn't have a problem with the Suns paying him one of the top 10 salaries...

I didn't realize he is already tied for ninth, with ten other players. The overmax contract would put him in or very near the top five, particularly since Mutombo's and Wallace's deals will be done by then.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm

I think Joe Mama is correct, but no team that is that far under the cap is going to offer Marbury a long-term deal starting at $15+ million per year, even if they can. So hcsilla is right that the Suns will be the only team in realistic position to offer Marbury an "overmax" contract.

It doesn't matter if a team has a bigger cap room than the max. contract.
If a team has 20 mil. cap room they still can't offer more than the actual max. salary (which is 25% of the cap if the player plays 7 or less years in NBA or 30% of the cap if the player is +7 years vet.) for the player.

So Marbury simply can't get more than 13.5 mil. (if the cap will be at 45 mil. in 2005) from any other teams.
Only the Suns can give him a 5% raise over his last year's salary which they probably won't do since they are not forced to do this.

Based on Marion's-case the Suns probably will give the actual max. for Marbury with 12,5% raise (other teams can give only 10% raise) for 7 years (other teams can give only a 6 years-contract) which means that Marbury will take a pay-cut.