Clippers @ Suns game thread 2-23-18

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Chandler did not play. Dudley got 11 minutes. They are playing all 22 year olds and younger with a few G-leaguers thrown in. This is tanking/rebuiliding or whatever you want to call it. They are not losing on purpose, but they are committing to their young players no matter the cost. All the big minutes went to the young players. THIS is what everyone wanted at the beginning of the year.

I am just not sure what many fans want. If they win 35 games, they are in no-mans land and you have to be willing to be bad in order to be good. When they really commit to youth, then its a disgrace and an embarrassment.

I know there is the frustration in the middle of the game on the game thread. That is understandable, I guess.

It's sort of ironic. Those who want the Suns to lose are unhappy when they lose.

If the Suns changed coaches and the GM position, but started winning, they would be screaming again. ;)
 

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Tank kept a rolling.

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BC867

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My point of view is that, with a roster overloaded with young, unproven players (plus some in the twilight of their careers), I don't want to see us embrace a losing culture. Or disappoint their star player.

Life is about setting priorities and I suggest that team mentality is #1. As far as putting a winning roster together, that is the responsibility of the Front Office. They can be passive or they can be proactive in planning the future.

Thus far, they have mostly been passive and that is a problem. I believe that all other considerations of details (such as how to build a winner over these past eight years of not making the playoffs) follow. Obviously, the leadership group has failed.
 

Chaplin

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Has it crossed your minds that Coach is being "guided" by our FO to purposely lose games and put a product out there that is not conducive to winning?

He didn't seem like a bad coach in the first half of the year, then Booker got hurt. And things progressed in a negative fashion since.
No. I’m tired of this argument to support a coach. He didn’t make Bender pass up a perfectly good dunk or Booker to miss free throws did he?
 

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Chandler did not play. Dudley got 11 minutes. They are playing all 22 year olds and younger with a few G-leaguers thrown in. This is tanking/rebuiliding or whatever you want to call it. They are not losing on purpose, but they are committing to their young players no matter the cost. All the big minutes went to the young players. THIS is what everyone wanted at the beginning of the year.

I am just not sure what many fans want. If they win 35 games, they are in no-mans land and you have to be willing to be bad in order to be good. When they really commit to youth, then its a disgrace and an embarrassment.

I know there is the frustration in the middle of the game on the game thread. That is understandable, I guess.
A lot of the frustration is that some of these young players should be better than they’ve been. Chriss and Ulis are the main culprits along with Bender’s inconsistency. Booker is fine and I guess Warren is too, although I think he gets a free pass about not having any skills other than scoring.
 

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My point of view is that, with a roster overloaded with young, unproven players (plus some in the twilight of their careers), I don't want to see us embrace a losing culture. Or disappoint their star player.

Life is about setting priorities and I suggest that team mentality is #1. As far as putting a winning roster together, that is the responsibility of the Front Office. They can be passive or they can be proactive in planning the future.

Thus far, they have mostly been passive and that is a problem. I believe that all other considerations of details (such as how to build a winner over these past eight years of not making the playoffs) follow. Obviously, the leadership group has failed.
That's a fair concern.

But remember, aside from Sarver, who is not going anywhere, this leadership group has not been here 8 years. McD has only been rebuilding for 3 years. If we were to dump McD and hire a new GM and coach, would you saddle them with the failures of the previous 8 years as well?

Impatience, not passivity, on Sarver's part is why we are here. He was the one who wanted a retool after Dragic and the bunch nearly made the playoffs during McD's first year here. It took McD two years to finally convince Sarver that a full rebuild was in order.

That's why this summer is key. My concern is that if they start over this summer, especially with a new GM, they will stretch out the losing process rather than move on to the next step.

They already are going to be in a coaching search. Do the due diligence, get the best coach possible. Add the key young players this summer in the draft. Go after quality vets in free agency to fill out the roster. Be competitive for a playoff spot next year.
 
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BC867

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No. I’m tired of this argument to support a coach. He didn’t make Bender pass up a perfectly good dunk or Booker to miss free throws did he?
Bender is unproven and, at this stage, a player without a natural position. The rest of the team is overloaded with young, unproven players. And a few in the twilight of their careers.

At this time, only our Shooting Guard (star player) and new Point Guard are NBA winning calibre. And they both play in the backcourt. As far as DBook, with his lifelong compassion for winning (his father was an NBA player), the missed free throws might reflect his frustration with the team's roster and Front Office, whose approach seems to be based on hoping -- the danger of an unbalanced, untalented roster.

This is why I have opposed tanking as our main hope of making the playoffs some day. It fosters a loser's mentality. I don't enjoy it and I'm sure DBook (right in the middle of it) doesn't either.

The Suns record is one of the worst in the NBA because the Suns front office is one of the worst in the NBA. Is that a surprise to anyone?
 

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Bender is unproven and, at this stage, a player without a natural position. The rest of the team is overloaded with young, unproven players. And a few in the twilight of their careers.

At this time, only our Shooting Guard (star player) and new Point Guard are NBA winning calibre. And they both play in the backcourt. As far as DBook, with his lifelong compassion for winning (his father was an NBA player), the missed free throws might reflect his frustration with the team's roster and Front Office, whose approach seems to be based on hoping -- the danger of an unbalanced, untalented roster.

This is why I have opposed tanking as our main hope of making the playoffs some day. It fosters a loser's mentality. I don't enjoy it and I'm sure DBook (right in the middle of it) doesn't either.

The Suns record is one of the worst in the NBA because the Suns front office is one of the worst in the NBA. Is that a surprise to anyone?
Are you purposely forgetting Josh Jackson, who is really coming into his own right now?
 

BC867

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Are you purposely forgetting Josh Jackson, who is really coming into his own right now?
If one young player (in addition to DBook) is the hope of a team out of the playoffs for eight years, it is hardly hope for gain.
 

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If one young player (in addition to DBook) is the hope of a team out of the playoffs for eight years, it is hardly hope for gain.
Look, you made a point to say that Payton and Booker are the only bright spots for our future. I simply pointed out your error. You can’t generalize and then get specific out of nowhere.

The fact that you think I wrote that JJ is the only bright spot (along with Booker) speaks volumes about more you than me.
 

BC867

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Look, you made a point to say that Payton and Booker are the only bright spots for our future. I simply pointed out your error. You can’t generalize and then get specific out of nowhere.

The fact that you think I wrote that JJ is the only bright spot (along with Booker) speaks volumes about more you than me.
It's a team sport, Chap. The Suns missing the playoffs is at eight years. Citing one young player obviously doesn't change that.
 

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A lot of the frustration is that some of these young players should be better than they’ve been. Chriss and Ulis are the main culprits along with Bender’s inconsistency. Booker is fine and I guess Warren is too, although I think he gets a free pass about not having any skills other than scoring.
OK. Ulis should not be a frustration to anyone. He is a 5-9 second rounder. He was like a lottery ticket. Small chance of hitting big, but you cannot expect anything. Bender is inconsistent, but overall his improvement is there. He is moving forward. Chriss is frustrating because of his regression. That is a very legit frustration.
 

BC867

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What was personal in that comment? Not sure I get it, but I am dense sometimes.
"You obviously are missing the point." isn't personal? That comment from Chap is not offering anything positive to get the Suns into the playoffs.

Because I didn't mention the name of one young player who has shown some progress doesn't change that. The point I was making was the big picture over the past eight years.
 

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BC, you can't complain about only having two NBA players and ignore Jackson, and to some degree, Warren. Then when someone points it out, change your argument to "It's a team sport", whatever the hell that means.
 

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OK. Ulis should not be a frustration to anyone. He is a 5-9 second rounder. He was like a lottery ticket. Small chance of hitting big, but you cannot expect anything. Bender is inconsistent, but overall his improvement is there. He is moving forward. Chriss is frustrating because of his regression. That is a very legit frustration.
He was consistently decent for a good part of the end of last season. I don’t think it’s hnreasonable to expect something close to that this season.
 

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It's sort of ironic. Those who want the Suns to lose are unhappy when they lose.

If the Suns changed coaches and the GM position, but started winning, they would be screaming again. ;)

There’s no irony. The team is atrocious, McD didn’t plan on it being atrocious, still made moves to try and make it better and we’re still awful.... worse in “year three of the rebuild” than we were in whatever the hell you deem Year one was.

In future, I’d appreciate you not speaking for those who’s opinions you’re obviously to dense to understand at this point.
 

BC867

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BC, you can't complain about only having two NBA players and ignore Jackson, and to some degree, Warren. Then when someone points it out, change your argument to "It's a team sport", whatever the hell that means.
Stef, my not mentioning the progress of Jackson is hardly the solution to the Suns' problems. Warren is a one-trick pony. Leaving only Booker (and possibly Payton), both backcourt, as our only foundation at this time.

And I have posted previously about the importance of a balanced roster, which is what I meant by team sport chemistry. Perhaps I didn't phrase that part properly.
 

SirStefan32

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I would say that a rookie averaging 18 and 7 over the past ten games is worth mentioning. He might not be the only solution to the Suns' issues, but he appears to be a significant part of it. As for Warren, he may be a one-trick pony, but 19.5 points per game in a season is pretty good.
 
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There’s no irony. The team is atrocious, McD didn’t plan on it being atrocious, still made moves to try and make it better and we’re still awful.... worse in “year three of the rebuild” than we were in whatever the hell you deem Year one was.

In future, I’d appreciate you not speaking for those who’s opinions you’re obviously to dense to understand at this point.

This comment is trash Cheesebeef, absolutely trash but I've come to expect this of you.

I overlook a lot of your garbage but I would like the Moderators to take a closer look at your posts.

Particularly last night and today your posts are particularly objectionable. I'm tired of posters leaving the forum because of the likes of you.
 

BC867

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I would say that a rookie averaging 18 and 7 over the past ten games is worth mentioning. He might not be the only solution to the Suns' issues, but he appears to be a significant part of it. As for Warren, he may be a one-trick pony, but 19.5 points per game in a season is pretty good.
'Good points! But has it changed the Suns recent or long term record or hope for the future (other than lucking out in the draft)?

Looking for a few bright spots is great. But the Suns need a lot more than that to take the next step in a very competitive league.
 

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...In future, I’d appreciate you not speaking for those who’s opinions you’re obviously too dense to understand at this point.
FTFY. :D

Look, we all have to agree the Suns are terrible. The only national pub last night's game got was a video on BSPN showing the Clips off to a 19-0 start. I don't blame the players, or coaches, or even the GM. Blame lies with (a) Sarver, and moreso (b) the MF'in 76ers, who introduced the NBA to the "nudge nudge wink wink" tanking which was as thinly veiled as Saran Wrap. At least when the Clips were losing, you knew it was because Sterling just wanted to turn a profit.
 
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