C'mon and Ride the Wagon...the David DeCastro Bandwagon!

[Duckjake]

Because it is very rare for college OG to be a top NFL prospect. Most of the most talented college offensive linemen play the OT position. It is not until they project to the NFL that they are switched to OGs (See Cordy Glenn, Amini Silatolu, Senio Kelemente, Kelechi Osemele). This transition is where teams devalue that player to a later round because they are perceived to be less talented OTs rather than highly athletic OGs. Players like Steve Hutchinson, and Alan Faneca and David DeCastro are rare because they are supremely talented players who are the TOP OGs in college football. They probably could have been average OTs, but they were always played inside which made them plug and play top players to whatever team drafted them.

I hope this answers your question.

Sort of but what it makes me think is why use a draft pick on a DeCastro when you can get an OT to convert to guard who will be almost as good in a later rounds plus a star playmaker in round one. I guess if so many top NFL offenses didn't have mostly later round players at Guard it would be easier to understand. Our Guards in the Super Bowl were 2nd round and 6th round picks.

Actually the more I research it looks like if you are going to use a first round pick on an offensive lineman you should take the best Center.

On the other hand the Cards have had 5 different players be the primary starter at Guard in just the last three years and the oline hasn't been very good any of those three seasons. So maybe they do need to go get an A+ Guard since they are going to have #6 starting this fall.

 

[Mitch]

I just don't see the Cardinals drafting either DeCastro or Martin.

First of all, I think DeCastro might even go in the top ten---so that makes it a moot point. But, we also signed Adam Snyder to play RG.

Martin does not fit the profile, pure and simple.

Cordy Glenn does. But I doubt the Cardinals will draft him at #13 because I am not sure Glenn would be top 15 on their board.

 

[Pariah]

First of all, I think DeCastro might even go in the top ten---so that makes it a moot point. But, we also signed Adam Snyder to play RG.

That's like saying we shouldn't have gone after Manning because John Skelton was under contract.

DeCastro is a player that makes your team better; you don't pass on him because you have Adam Snyder.

 

[Duckjake]

That's like saying we shouldn't have gone after Manning because John Skelton was under contract.

DeCastro is a player that makes your team better; you don't pass on him because you have Adam Snyder.

But DeCastro won't make our team any better as long as Grimm is offensive line coach. Better to get Horton more tools to work with. At least he's shown he knows what he's doing.

Draft defense and WRs. Get Horton some more tools at least he looks like he knows what he's doing. Let Double Duece work his 4th quarter magic. He didn't need a good offensive line last year and he won't need one this year either. Don't use valuable draft picks on guys Grimm will ruin.

 

[Pariah]

But DeCastro won't make our team any better as long as Grimm is offensive line coach. Better to get Horton more tools to work with. At least he's shown he knows what he's doing.

Draft defense and WRs. Get Horton some more tools at least he looks like he knows what he's doing. Let Double Duece work his 4th quarter magic. He didn't need a good offensive line last year and he won't need one this year either. Don't use valuable draft picks on guys Grimm will ruin.

Eh. Maybe. But there were plenty of times our guys were in the right place and simply didn't make the block, too.

 

[Duckjake]

Eh. Maybe. But there were plenty of times our guys were in the right place and simply didn't make the block, too.

More excuses. Grimm has been Oline coach for 5 seasons. During that time we've had Al Johnson and Lyle Sendlein at Center. Reggie Wells,Alan Faneca,Daryn Colledge, Duece Lutui and Rex Hadnot at Guard, Mike Gandy,Levi Brown,Jeremy Bridges, and Brandon Keith at Tackles and the line looks exactly the same every year.

Every offensive lineman misses blocks. Guys like Darnell Dockett and Calais Campbell aren't standing around waiting to get knocked down. (The Cards got rid of guys like that after the 2003 season).

Of course the publishers of the excuse book will come on here and claim none of those guys were any good. But I don't see 5 offensive linemen on almost every other team in the NFL that are that superior to our guys.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

That's like saying we shouldn't have gone after Manning because John Skelton was under contract.

DeCastro is a player that makes your team better; you don't pass on him because you have Adam Snyder.

Agree, but other players like Ingram, Upshaw, Kuechly, and Martin make the team better and there is no starter of significance already in place.

 

[Pariah]

More excuses. Grimm has been Oline coach for 5 seasons. During that time we've had Al Johnson and Lyle Sendlein at Center. Reggie Wells,Alan Faneca,Daryn Colledge, Duece Lutui and Rex Hadnot at Guard, Mike Gandy,Levi Brown,Jeremy Bridges, and Brandon Keith at Tackles and the line looks exactly the same every year.

Duck, look at those names. Are you trying to make my point for me?

 

[JeffGollin]

Suggest we all develop our weighted BPA #1- #13 lists and determine in our own minds how far down that list we're willing to go before we make a strong effort to trade down.

 

[Duckjake]

Duck, look at those names. Are you trying to make my point for me?

I guess you missed this part of my post.

Of course the publishers of the excuse book will come on here and claim none of those guys were any good. But I don't see 5 offensive linemen on almost every other team in the NFL that are that superior to our guys.

I just don't buy that all of them were that much worse than what other teams put out to block. Especially when you have had so many different guys on the line and the line as a unit looks exactly the same year after year.

Come on. New Orleans offensive line roster last year, as I posted before, had 1 second round pick, two fourth round picks, two fifth round picks, a 7th and two UDFA.

 

[Pariah]

I guess you missed this part of my post.

I did--I had to step away from my computer because I was choking on my lime from my G&T.

Look, I'm not saying Grimm isn't a liability--he is. I'm just saying it's crazy to pass on a guy like DeCastro because you have a weakness on the coaching staff. It's the same argument that people use to say we should draft a QB high. "It's a wasted pick. Until we address the line he won't be any good," (or for not taking Adrian Peterson, for that matter).

At some point it's a circular argument. I'd take BPA despite Grimm. JMHO

 

[Duckjake]

I did--I had to step away from my computer because I was choking on my lime from my G&T.

Look, I'm not saying Grimm isn't a liability--he is. I'm just saying it's crazy to pass on a guy like DeCastro because you have a weakness on the coaching staff. It's the same argument that people use to say we should draft a QB high. "It's a wasted pick. Until we address the line he won't be any good," (or for not taking Adrian Peterson, for that matter).

At some point it's a circular argument. I'd take BPA despite Grimm. JMHO

Grimm being a liability is a real factor. People claiming guys like Peterson wouldn't have been any good in Arizona were just trying to rationalize poor decisions by Cards management.

I agree 100% on going BPA in the first round. Especially if the P stands for Playmaker. Like Peterson for instance. I'm just not convinced that a 1st round Guard is going to make much more difference in our oline than a 4th round Guard with Grimm as oline coach.

 

[GatorAZ]

Been in it for months. Hopefully KC passes on him.

 

[Shzm13]

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Tough, smart, athletic...sounds like none of our current crappy linemen.

We NEED DeCastro! Tired of having poopy lines and pinning hopes on Russ Grimm's lazy ass.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Yeah, if by some miracle he makes it to us, you have to take Kalil.

+1

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Suggest we all develop our weighted BPA #1- #13 lists and determine in our own minds how far down that list we're willing to go before we make a strong effort to trade down.

Done

He is #5 on my board

 

[Ed Burmila]

DeCastro is terrific. The question we should be asking is how much it's worth forking over to move up and take Kalil. We need a franchise LT in the worst possible way.

 

[JeffGollin]

Done

He is #5 on my board

That's pretty close to where I have him.

When it gets to be our turn to draft at #13, the key questions are:

1. Who is still on our board (& in what order)

2. Are any of the remaining guys on that list worth our drafting if Cleveland, Cincy or any other team were to offer us, say, a 2nd round pick and a swap of 1st rounders that would put us in the early 20's?

(Note - We'd probably be smart to consult one of the legendary Draft Value Charts, but even then, those charts can vary a little from year to year depending on supply and demand by position. And all it takes is one GM to go loony on us and offer us something outrageous & totally off the charts).

That's really what it comes down to.

Typically (for reasons of front office insanity or weird need-sets) there will be one or two players we really like who fall down the ladder to us. If this were to happen (& we weren't made an offer we couldn't refuse) we'd have to say "no thank you" to Cleveland, Cincy etc. and draft the sucker. (Hopefully it would be DeCastro, but you never know).

 

[Stout]

DeCastro is terrific. The question we should be asking is how much it's worth forking over to move up and take Kalil. We need a franchise LT in the worst possible way.

True enough, but I think it'll cost way too much. I've read some posters positing that this year's 1st, a late round pick, and next year's 1st would be enough, but I don't think that scratches the paint. I figure it would be at least this year's first and third, and next year's 1st and 2nd. And that's just too high a price. We would, after all, be moving into the top 5 of the draft.

 

[Duckjake]

Is DeCastro worth more than say, someone like Stephon Gilmore, and Brandon Brooks out of Miami of Ohio?

 

[kerouac9]

It's totally unfair of Stout to usurp the position of the driver of the David DeCastro bandwagon when Chopper had the thing gassed up and idling the parking lot for the last three and a half months.

Because it is very rare for college OG to be a top NFL prospect. Most of the most talented college offensive linemen play the OT position. It is not until they project to the NFL that they are switched to OGs (See Cordy Glenn, Amini Silatolu, Senio Kelemente, Kelechi Osemele). This transition is where teams devalue that player to a later round because they are perceived to be less talented OTs rather than highly athletic OGs. Players like Steve Hutchinson, and Alan Faneca and David DeCastro are rare because they are supremely talented players who are the TOP OGs in college football. They probably could have been average OTs, but they were always played inside which made them plug and play top players to whatever team drafted them.

I hope this answers your question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdhAXAoToGs

Cordy Glenn was primarily a guard at UGA until his senior year, when he was moved outside. I really like Glenn if DeCastro is off the board--even if we DON'T trade down--and I thought I'd share this cool excerpt from Drew Boylhart's evaluation of Glenn (he has him rated as a second-round talent, but his ratings are kind of unique):

However, I think this has given Cordy a false sense of his abilities for the next level. This happens a lot to talented players at the college level. Coaches take a player with Cordy's talent for granted and stop coaching him to coach players who need more help. Cordy needs good coaching to go with his strength and weight training.

I think the upside on Glenn is enough that I wouldn't have a problem taking him at 13 and letting Lott and Grimm work with him with an eye on 2013.

Sort of but what it makes me think is why use a draft pick on a DeCastro when you can get an OT to convert to guard who will be almost as good in a later rounds plus a star playmaker in round one. I guess if so many top NFL offenses didn't have mostly later round players at Guard it would be easier to understand. Our Guards in the Super Bowl were 2nd round and 6th round picks.

Actually the more I research it looks like if you are going to use a first round pick on an offensive lineman you should take the best Center.

On the other hand the Cards have had 5 different players be the primary starter at Guard in just the last three years and the oline hasn't been very good any of those three seasons. So maybe they do need to go get an A+ Guard since they are going to have #6 starting this fall.

That's assuming that there is a "star playmaker" in round one to take, right? If you're looking at taking the best offensive guard or two-gap DT (Say Michael Brockers) at 13 overall, or taking the third-best WR or Cornerback, what do you do?

 

[BullheadCardFan]

(Note - We'd probably be smart to consult one of the legendary Draft Value Charts, but even then, those charts can vary a little from year to year depending on supply and demand by position. And all it takes is one GM to go loony on us and offer us something outrageous & totally off the charts).

Here is one from PFT.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Is DeCastro worth more than say, someone like Stephon Gilmore, and Brandon Brooks out of Miami of Ohio?

Yes.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think the upside on Glenn is enough that I wouldn't have a problem taking him at 13 and letting Lott and Grimm work with him with an eye on 2013.

Cordy Glenn is a scary one for me. Seems to be a good pick, but then he was a OG in college. I dunno. Very boom or bust type guy.

Not saying he is a bad choice, just a scary one. But, I guess if I am all in to draft DeCastro as a guard, then at worst if Glenn becomes a guard, it is not the worst thing in the world.

Dare I say the word "intangibles" in reference to DeCastro.

 

[Duckjake]

That's assuming that there is a "star playmaker" in round one to take, right? If you're looking at taking the best offensive guard or two-gap DT (Say Michael Brockers) at 13 overall, or taking the third-best WR or Cornerback, what do you do?

One thing I would take into consideration are what positions have the most and least talent differences between 1st round picks and 2-4th round selections.

Guards, Inside Linebackers, and lately Running Backs are probably the most likely positions where more guys taken in round 3 turn out just as good as guys taken in round one. How much better is the "best" offensive Guard than the 8th best Offensive Guard? How much better is the 3rd best CB than the 11th best CB?

Figuring that stuff out is why guys like Ozzie Newsome make so much money.