Coaches are admitting failure

[CaptTurbo]

By benching Matt they are essentially admitting failure on the part of the QB coach. 3 years to develop him and ......nothing?

Ive seen backup Qb's spend their time on the bench, stink up preseason and still get their shot because of the time invested. Yet not worth it for Matt. Than the QB coach should get the axe.

What other job can you utterly fail at and keep?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Keep George Bush off of the Cards message board.

LMAO!! I was actually referring to Carter...

 

[slinslin]

Or maybe Leinart is simply bad.

 

[MrYeahBut]

By benching Matt they are essentially admitting failure on the part of the QB coach. 3 years to develop him and ......nothing?

Ive seen backup Qb's spend their time on the bench, stink up preseason and still get their shot because of the time invested. Yet not worth it for Matt. Than the QB coach should get the axe.

What other job can you utterly fail at and keep?

Maybe we should bring back Trestman...but he's Crazy Canucks' coach now

 

[Goldfield]

Why did I even read this...

 

[CardinalChris]

By benching Matt they are essentially admitting failure on the part of the QB coach. 3 years to develop him and ......nothing?

Ive seen backup Qb's spend their time on the bench, stink up preseason and still get their shot because of the time invested. Yet not worth it for Matt. Than the QB coach should get the axe.

What other job can you utterly fail at and keep?

The problem is Bill Walsh himself can coach a QB and that QB still has to grow and take it upon themselves. That same QB coach took Warner and cut those turnovers down. So if we want to throw stones, let's give credit also. In management you aren't always successful, and when it comes to employees it can be because you are dependent on their abilities and performance, not because you can't develop talent.

 

[PoolBoy]

Why did I even read this...

ive been wondering that a lot on here lately.

 

[Duckjake]

By benching Matt they are essentially admitting failure on the part of the QB coach. 3 years to develop him and ......nothing?

Ive seen backup Qb's spend their time on the bench, stink up preseason and still get their shot because of the time invested. Yet not worth it for Matt. Than the QB coach should get the axe.

What other job can you utterly fail at and keep?

Meteorologist. NFL Draft Guru.

 

[az jam]

Why did I even read this...

Has the Board been taking over by......... Never mind, I don't want to get banned.

 

[CardinalChris]

Meteorologist. NFL Draft Guru.

Great hitting coaches in baseball's player fail 70% of the time and can make All-Star games!!!

 

[Renz]

I guess Akili Smith, Joey Harrington and Cade McNown all just needed better coaching.

 

[CardinalChris]

I guess Akili Smith, Joey Harrington and Cade McNown all just needed better coaching.

LOL I must admit with Shame that I bought into Akili Smith. I thought he was going to be a star.

 

[joeshmo]

That same QB coach took Warner and cut those turnovers down.

You just help make swd's point. The coaches worked with him on that for 5 years and it was never fixed even a little bit.

http://www.nfl.com/players/kurtwarner/profile?id=WAR492511

It all comes down to this - Everyone involved, Somers, Urban, and anyone else who gets to cover this team on a daily basis have all stated that Matt failing would not be because of lack of work and effort. It was a common scene to see Matt at the facility working with Lott, working on the field with which ever TE, WR, or RB was available to run routes, or in the film room. The issue and Wiz has alluded to this many times already and no one seems to want to pick up on it besides Shane and a few others is just a personality trait Wiz wants in a starting QB that Matt just does not seem to have, what that trait is, fire, body language, command, and so on know one will every know.

 

[Duckjake]

Great hitting coaches in baseball's player fail 70% of the time and can make All-Star games!!!

Pro Golfer. You can fail to win a single tournament and still earn a million bucks a year.

 

[Mainstreet]

The issue and Wiz has alluded to this many times already and no one seems to want to pick up on it besides Shane and a few others is just a personality trait Wiz wants in a starting QB that Matt just does not seem to have, what that trait is, fire, body language, command, and so on know one will every know.

Although Max Hall will not be the starter for the Cardinals he reeks of the qualities you mention.

 

[az jam]

You just help make swd's point. The coaches worked with him on that for 5 years and it was never fixed even a little bit.

http://www.nfl.com/players/kurtwarner/profile?id=WAR492511

It all comes down to this - Everyone involved, Somers, Urban, and anyone else who gets to cover this team on a daily basis have all stated that Matt failing would not be because of lack of work and effort. It was a common scene to see Matt at the facility working with Lott, working on the field with which ever TE, WR, or RB was available to run routes, or in the film room. The issue and Wiz has alluded to this many times already and no one seems to want to pick up on it besides Shane and a few others is just a personality trait Wiz wants in a starting QB that Matt just does not seem to have, what that trait is, fire, body language, command, and so on know one will every know.

Its simply called leadership.

 

[Spielman]

You just help make swd's point. The coaches worked with him on that for 5 years and it was never fixed even a little bit.

http://www.nfl.com/players/kurtwarner/profile?id=WAR492511

Well, it improved a little bit. The raw fumble numbers don't look any better from 2007-2009, but taking into account the extra playing time, they did drop. The INT% was better than league average each of the last two seasons as well.

What didn't do a damned thing was the gloves. Warner was just as likely to fumble when he got hit from 2007 on as he had been from 2002-2006. He just got hit less, probably because the offensive line began impersonating an NFL line, something the Giant line of 2004 and the Cardinal lines of 2005 and 2006, weren't able to do.

 

[CardinalChris]

You just help make swd's point. The coaches worked with him on that for 5 years and it was never fixed even a little bit.

http://www.nfl.com/players/kurtwarner/profile?id=WAR492511

It all comes down to this - Everyone involved, Somers, Urban, and anyone else who gets to cover this team on a daily basis have all stated that Matt failing would not be because of lack of work and effort. It was a common scene to see Matt at the facility working with Lott, working on the field with which ever TE, WR, or RB was available to run routes, or in the film room. The issue and Wiz has alluded to this many times already and no one seems to want to pick up on it besides Shane and a few others is just a personality trait Wiz wants in a starting QB that Matt just does not seem to have, what that trait is, fire, body language, command, and so on know one will every know.

Wait a moment. Yes, he didn't change largely percentage wise, but what about comparing thise coaching regime to the previous.

Year-Team-Coach-Turnovers(ints + fum)-att-%
04-NYG-Coughlin 8/277 2.89%
05-AZ-Green 14/375 3.73%
06-AZ-Green 8/168 4.76%
---------------------------------------------------------
07-AZ-Whiz 23/451 5.10%
08-AZ-Whiz 21/598 3.51%
09-AZ-Whiz 20/513 3.90%

I see a trend of about 1% worse each year before Whiz got here. On 500 attempts a year (which is about what he threw under this regime) that makes 5 extra turnovers a year.

In 2007, his first with Whiz, he cut the trend in a third, from about 1% a year to only digressing 1/3 of a %. Then he dropped it 1.6% (about 8 picks), and a slight rise the last year, but well below his last under Green and first under Whiz. How can you say he didn't improve under this coach when in his best year he improve 8 turnovers. The numbers were even more one-sided when I included fumbles, not only fumbles lost.

 

[WarnerHOF]

Matt Leinart is a overhyped Ken Dorsey with no work ethic. There was no saving him.

 

[CaptTurbo]

And if they knew Matt had nothing to offer why not address the QB position the last two years or at the very least they should have gotten Bulger this offseason over Anderson.

 

[cardpa]

You just help make swd's point. The coaches worked with him on that for 5 years and it was never fixed even a little bit.

http://www.nfl.com/players/kurtwarner/profile?id=WAR492511

It all comes down to this - Everyone involved, Somers, Urban, and anyone else who gets to cover this team on a daily basis have all stated that Matt failing would not be because of lack of work and effort. It was a common scene to see Matt at the facility working with Lott, working on the field with which ever TE, WR, or RB was available to run routes, or in the film room. The issue and Wiz has alluded to this many times already and no one seems to want to pick up on it besides Shane and a few others is just a personality trait Wiz wants in a starting QB that Matt just does not seem to have, what that trait is, fire, body language, command, and so on know one will every know.

Then why in the hell would you name ML your starter if the qualities you are looking for are not there? You have been coaching the guy for 3 years, he hasn't shown the traits you want in your QB and you still name him as your starter. Then suddenly in less than 4 weeks time he becomes an epic fail and it's all ML's fault for failing to see what you wanted from him. Gimme a break here!

The HC needs to take some responsibility here too for either failing to convey the message to ML as to what he is looking for or for building a false sense of hope in ML that what he was doing was enough and the things he needed to do in order to secure the starting position.

Whiz places players in the doghouse way too quick. After Wells fumbled Sat he was immediately benched. That certainly goes a long way toward building a players confidence. Make one mistake and I ride the pine. In the meantime that pine time player see others making mistake after mistake and no repercussions for it.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Its simply called leadership.

You simply assume that is what it is.

Whisenhunt simply states 'chemistry.' That could be leadership; that could be a player losing a poker game against Matt and holding a grudge; that could be Matt's personality doesn't resonate with whatever the coach believes that his QB should have.

We don't exactly know; everything anyone says that isn't a direct quote from either Matt, Whisenhunt, or the Cardinals front office is conjecture.

 

[joeshmo]

Its simply called leadership.

I dont think it is that simple.

There are many ways of being a leader. More then one way to skin a cat if you will. Its just a matter of that leadership style meshing with the coaches leadership style and then matching the pulse of the teams style.

 

[joeshmo]

In 2007, his first with Whiz, he cut the trend in a third, from about 1% a year to only digressing 1/3 of a %. Then he dropped it 1.6% (about 8 picks), and a slight rise the last year, but well below his last under Green and first under Whiz. How can you say he didn't improve under this coach when in his best year he improve 8 turnovers. The numbers were even more one-sided when I included fumbles, not only fumbles lost.

Wow good example of munipulating stats through math. First of all what does attempts have to do with fumbles, he cant fumble during run plays as well? 11 or more fumbles since Wiz has been here, period, end of story. In a per game situation sure he got better from 2007 to 2008 but then again he got worse from 2008 to 2009 so was it every actually fixed or just a anomoly?

But if you want to play the attempts game here we go

2007 - 451 attempts - 29 int's/fumbles = dropping the ball every 15.55 attempts
2008 - 598 attempts - 25 int's/fumbles = dropping the ball every 23.92 attempts
2009 - 513 attempts - 25 int's/fumbles = dropping the ball every 20.52 attempts

So he gets better then gets worse again. I can play with stats as well to make my point so it all comes down to one thing, Warners Fumbling issues were lengendary until the day he retired for a reason and it wasnt just to pick on the guy it was because that is what every DC in the league tried to capitalize on because they knew it was a weakness and every analyst knew was a problem his whole career, it never got better. I wont even go into comparing the Green years to the Wiz years considering Warner was still having issue's with hand strength from his NYG days so his slight 1% better as you put it could just as easily be from something other then QB coaching things such as better OL play compared to Green, gloves, not playing from behind as much taing fewer risks, and so on.

Double digit fumbles a year is crap no matter how you slice it or want to play with percentages and it was never fixed by Warner or the coaches, end of story.

 

[slanidrac16]

And if they knew Matt had nothing to offer why not address the QB position the last two years or at the very least they should have gotten Bulger this offseason over Anderson.

You are making too much sense SWD.


How in the hell can we go from. "Matt is our starting QB", to "I don't have to name a starting QB yet"?

If Leinart isn't named the starting QB this organization, AND coaching staff will getan "F" grade for this situation. I can't even remember all the QB's Leinart could have been replaced with over the last 3 years.

My one question for Whiz would be this. " Why the hell did it take you over 3 years to come to this conclusion?"