Coaching has cost us 3 weeks in a row

[Chris_Sanders]

Im pretty sure there are WRs running down the field on some of those plays...QB decides where the ball goes.

Well....

The way it was described to me is that Murray wants to run. He wants to bomb it. He wants to basically use all his talents. When he audibles we see a bit of it.

Kingsbury wants him to play it safe. Run the play and limit the risk. No turnovers. Take the sack. Never get hit.

It sort of blew my mind because I always thought Kingsbury and Kyler were 100% sympatico but now I wonder

 

[Russ Smith]

I thought the first quarter by Kliff was really good, basically schemed us into 10 points that could have been 14 if Kyler had cut in instead of going wide on the first play. We did get a TD but it came back on the pick call.

After that it seemed like Kliff got conservative and there was a lull. Again we have no #1 WR and it hurt us today, Isabella made a big mistake on that backshoulder not cutting off his route, the fumble by Keesean etc. I think the reason we aren't throwing downfield more is combination of lack of WR talent and lack of confidence we can pass block that long. But we gotta go over the top a bit more.

The defense is just a mess. On the last drive we had an obvious hands to the face on Chandler that wasn't called and a play where PP read the play was a blur late and they completed it when it looked like it might be a picksix. But beyond that they just moved down the field with ease.

 

[Chopper0080]

Well....

The way it was described to me is that Murray wants to run. He wants to bomb it. He wants to basically use all his talents. When he audibles we see a bit of it.

Kingsbury wants him to play it safe. Run the play and limit the risk. No turnovers. Take the sack. Never get hit.

It sort of blew my mind because I always thought Kingsbury and Kyler were 100% sympatico but now I wonder

I get you are sharing what you are hearing. My point is that I don't see Kyler pushing the ball down the field. Of course a coach is going to say "make sure you take care of the ball" but ultimately, the QB delivers it. It is like Kyler's short throw to KJ at the end of the game...he chose that throw over other throws in the play. That is on Kyler not the play call.

 

[Chopper0080]

Let me also state that I am in no way putting this on Kyler today even if he still had some things to clean up.

 

[SoonerLou]

Well....

The way it was described to me is that Murray wants to run. He wants to bomb it. He wants to basically use all his talents. When he audibles we see a bit of it.

Kingsbury wants him to play it safe. Run the play and limit the risk. No turnovers. Take the sack. Never get hit.

It sort of blew my mind because I always thought Kingsbury and Kyler were 100% sympatico but now I wonder

Uh where did you hear this?

Im pretty sure there are WRs running down the field on some of those plays...QB decides where the ball goes.

Good thing is All 22 film will be out so we can see what was going on.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Did we attempt to throw downfield at all in the 2nd half?

Not that I recall. Offense went full turtle.

 

[SoonerLou]

I get you are sharing what you are hearing. My point is that I don't see Kyler pushing the ball down the field. Of course a coach is going to say "make sure you take care of the ball" but ultimately, the QB delivers it. It is like Kyler's short throw to KJ at the end of the game...he chose that throw over other throws in the play. That is on Kyler not the play call.

Didn't have a problem with that throw cause in theory we're just trying to get into a spot for a hail mary (3 timeouts as well)

Its probably just a really good defense figured out a rookie HC/QB.

 

[gimpy]

What I don't understand is that receivers are "wide" open so much. No one within a couple of yards when the catch is made.

 

[SoonerLou]

Well....

The way it was described to me is that Murray wants to run. He wants to bomb it. He wants to basically use all his talents. When he audibles we see a bit of it.

Kingsbury wants him to play it safe. Run the play and limit the risk. No turnovers. Take the sack. Never get hit.

It sort of blew my mind because I always thought Kingsbury and Kyler were 100% sympatico but now I wonder

Could be that Kliff sees there's no way we can win if we're risking it on offense with our defense.

However, maybe Kyler figures we might as well wing it anyway.

Again as someone who watched a lot of Texas Tech games. I'm seeing Kliff trying to figure out how to win games. Maybe the dynamic explosive offense will come in time, but he's trying to figure out to win games in the NFL.

As Trent Dilfer put it....there are extreme highs and extremes lows with this kind of offense. I think Kliff is trying to figure out the balance and its backfired a couple times

(play call with Sherfield on the field vs. Bucs/Kyler throwing it for an int)
(now sort of taking the ball out of Kyler's hands till 3rd down against the 49ers)
..
Just hope we add some pieces in the off season...

 

[PACardsFan]

Could be that Kliff sees there's no way we can win if we're risking it on offense with our defense.

However, maybe Kyler figures we might as well wing it anyway.

Again as someone who watched a lot of Texas Tech games. I'm seeing Kliff trying to figure out how to win games. Maybe the dynamic explosive offense will come in time, but he's trying to figure out to win games in the NFL.

As Trent Dilfer put it....there are extreme highs and extremes lows with this kind of offense. I think Kliff is trying to figure out the balance and its backfired a couple times

(play call with Sherfield on the field vs. Bucs/Kyler throwing it for an int)
(now sort of taking the ball out of Kyler's hands till 3rd down against the 49ers)
..
Just hope we add some pieces in the off season...

Bottom line, NO offense can be expected to be perfect. Unfortunately, our pathetic D leaves us with almost no margin for error. We did see what could happen when our D made stops in the 1st quarter. We were up 16-0. We can bitch & moan, but until the D gets better, the best we can ask for is playing competitively. I’m upset that after the pick in the 4th, that we went conservative. That’s on KK. When the D falls apart, he gets conservative.

 

[PACardsFan]

To me, it’s quite obvious that KK is coaching not to lose instead of coaching to win. Much of that is a result of our pathetic D. After the bye, I think we’ll see KK rip off the bandaid & go for broke.

 

[Buckybird]

Eh not really. Half of our defensive starters probably aren't NFL players. VJ sucks and has gotta go but Keim literally destroyed this defense (top 5 in the NFL as recently as 4 years ago FYI).

We’re definitely not as talented as those years without a doubt. But denying that Joseph isn’t a huge factor is just lunacy. His situational playcalling & schemes lead to losses. Facts

 

[FB94]

To me, it’s quite obvious that KK is coaching not to lose instead of coaching to win. Much of that is a result of our pathetic D. After the bye, I think we’ll see KK rip off the bandaid & go for broke.

KK does play conservative at times, what OC doesn’t. To me the glaring issue is with the defense end of story. For the most part the offense has done its part. Can’t say the same for the D.

 

[football karma]

i suppose better coaching decisions might have resulted in a one win out of the last three..........

but a terrible pass defense is what really cost this team that last three weeks.

in fact, we might be entering not just worst in the NFL, but historically bad. when i really want to torment myself, ill go look.

 

[AZCrazy]

All these close losses show is how far we've come. First step this year. You can see the vast improvement in the offense.
Drafted Murray, Isabella, Butler, Johnson, Gaillard, and Miles. Picked up FA's Sweezy, Gilbert, Garcia, Murray, and now Drake.
The proof is in the pudding on the field. This off season we'll get some solid fresh blood on the defense and be in playoff contention next year. No doubt about it. Some clowns think you go from 3-13 to 13-3 in one offseason.

 

[Russ Smith]

We have 5 games left and already have scored 25 more points this year than we did all last year.

The offense has some obvious things that need to get better but 22.5 PPG this year with no #1 WR and David Johnson going full disappearing act is actually quite good IMO.

The defense is just awful

 

[JeffGollin]

There are coaches and there are coaches.

I think a lot of fans are calling for VJ's head on a platter because he's the only name they remember.

Some coaching defects are ingrained. Some are correctable. Some are due to assistants that the coordinator was stuck with.

Rather than swing away blindly, the staff should take a long, hard, tough look at where the problems lie and make smart, tough deccisions on what to do. Fire if need be, but don't ditch good guys.

 

[football karma]

Not that I recall. Offense went full turtle.

the offense, prior to desperation with :30 secs left, had four total possessions in the second half

it scored a TD and a FG on two, punted on two

on the two punt series, K1 was sacked on each -- one on first down

all that said:

in the drive trying to run clock, i was begging for play action on 2nd down.

 

[Proximo]

To me, it’s quite obvious that KK is coaching not to lose instead of coaching to win. Much of that is a result of our pathetic D. After the bye, I think we’ll see KK rip off the bandaid & go for broke.

i agree. Seems like we get in fg range and he is more concerned with staying there than trying to score a TD.

I keep thinking he is going to figure out you don’t win games in the nfl with field goals.

 

[phillycard]

Got to put it on Kliff (and I guess Kyler too) as well

Our offense is practically a 4 minute offense anyway. I don't know if it was the Bucs game that spooked them. But we were not trying to put the game away.

SoonerLou, I'm in agreeance. This is two weeks in a row that a late turnover should have been (emphasis on should have) ball game. Why we can't seem to move the ball when it matters the most is cause for me to lose my cool, which I've done this year on multiple occasions. That Bucs game is a win if we pick up a first down, and the same with yesterday. KK, offensive guru. Okay. Sure.

 

[dscher]

To me, it’s quite obvious that KK is coaching not to lose instead of coaching to win. Much of that is a result of our pathetic D. After the bye, I think we’ll see KK rip off the bandaid & go for broke.

Yep. That's how you need to coach, or at least have the mindset of as a head coach.. imo. But this is all still hopefully just part of his process as a rookie head coach that he needs to go through and have a comfort level with first..

 

[Jetstream Green]

There are a lot of things we would not be putting a microscope on concerning Kliff if we had a defense, because not only would we be winning but probably winning by a lot with our offense having better field position and the opposing defense all exhausted chasing Kyler around for extended series. But we do and Kliff himself has to because this defense cannot hold anything. Every three and out is like taking a step back due to the defense. To me the most defining point was when Joseph was so jubilant when we got that pick late in the game as if we just won the NFC championship because even he does not expect us to stop the opposing offense lol

 

[ARZCardinals]

I get the call, it was the execution of the play that failed.
He was getting pressure on blitzing big time. My guess is he was hoping for a turnover. Problem was Chandler Jones can NOT cover anyone and stumbled to the ground....leaving the guy wide open.
The reality is, even if they won, there is NO chance of making the playoffs, so the loss improves draft selection which is ultimately the better long term option at this point.
They need better players all over the field...offense and defense.\
Lastly, they isn't on the Head Coach - he had nothing to do with it....it's all on the DC - Vance Joseph.

 

[dscher]

I get the call, it was the execution of the play that failed.
He was getting pressure on blitzing big time. My guess is he was hoping for a turnover. Problem was Chandler Jones can NOT cover anyone and stumbled to the ground....leaving the guy wide open.
The reality is, even if they won, there is NO chance of making the playoffs, so the loss improves draft selection which is ultimately the better long term option at this point.
They need better players all over the field...offense and defense.\
Lastly, they isn't on the Head Coach - he had nothing to do with it....it's all on the DC - Vance Joseph.

I personally can only get behind this line of thinking if they can keim. I'm still in the belief that his role has been significantly reduced regardless starting last year.. but I still don't like the look of it.

 

[SoonerLou]

SoonerLou, I'm in agreeance. This is two weeks in a row that a late turnover should have been (emphasis on should have) ball game. Why we can't seem to move the ball when it matters the most is cause for me to lose my cool, which I've done this year on multiple occasions. That Bucs game is a win if we pick up a first down, and the same with yesterday. KK, offensive guru. Okay. Sure.

My only problem with Bucs game was putting Sherfield on the field (he only played 9% of the snaps that game) in that situation. Made no sense to put you're 6th best wr as the primary read to put the game away.

This game the 49ers moved the ball at will in the 2nd half. Would have liked a play action on 2nd down.