Coach's Film Breakdown: 8 Sacks and a Negative Run

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I'm not sure your point. My point is with 8 sacks, there's tons of blame to go around, from the Oline to Kolb. Giving up 8 sacks indicates a serious problem in more than just one area. Massie gave up 4 by himself to Wake. Wake was his responsibility--not Kolb's, not Housler's, it was Massie's. He got blown up all day. Said as much. Couple them sacks you can probably pin on Kolb making errors or not getting the ball out fast enough. Couple were probably coverage sacks. Point is, it isn't any one thing. Not with 8 freaking sacks.

The Miami game wasn't necessarily an indication of any serious problem other than just having a bad game all around. Just look at the Packers, they were sacked 8 times in the first half in week 3 vs. the Seahawks, but haven't been sacked once in the last 6 quarters.

 

[Russ Smith]

Kind of. And then I was given evidence that I was mistaken, checked my facts, and then admitted I was wrong.

Funny how that works, right?

that's exactly what i meant its an example of memory being fallible.

 

[Darkside]

And... that's exactly why I wanted to look at the eight sacks in detail, and then I did that.

Did you just come in here to lob some bombs? He didn't "get blown up all day". On the vast majority of plays he did pretty well for himself. He's not going to say that in public, of course.

I read the whole thread and knew I shouldn't have responded because you'd take it personally. I'm not even talking about you, I'm talking about our oline.

Massie gave up 4 sacks by himself! That is getting your ass handed to you. Doesn't matter how much you watch it, he gave up 4 sacks. Levi does that and you guys would eat his first born. And those are just the sacks, that doesn't even include the hurries and penetrations he gave up. Look, I love Massie, but I'm not going to lie for the guy. You apparently have no such qualms.

And Massie said what a pro should say: that he got his ass beat against a very good player.

 

[Darkside]

The Miami game wasn't necessarily an indication of any serious problem other than just having a bad game all around. Just look at the Packers, they were sacked 8 times in the first half in week 3 vs. the Seahawks, but haven't been sacked once in the last 6 quarters.

I agree kind of--clearly the Oline's worst game. I do think their issues are systemic though and not easy to fix. I think it's a bad line (though no worse than some other lines--you mention the Packers for example). I think they've done a good job providing help and hiding some issues and this past game they weren't able to do that. I just hope they don't get exposed every game once people figure out how totally weak it is.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I read the whole thread and knew I shouldn't have responded because you'd take it personally. I'm not even talking about you, I'm talking about our oline.

Massie gave up 4 sacks by himself! That is getting your ass handed to you. Doesn't matter how much you watch it, he gave up 4 sacks. Levi does that and you guys would eat his first born. And those are just the sacks, that doesn't even include the hurries and penetrations he gave up. Look, I love Massie, but I'm not going to lie for the guy. You apparently have no such qualms.

And Massie said what a pro should say: that he got his ass beat against a very good player.

Not every sack is on the offensive lineman and I think that is one of the points that K9 is getting at. Tackles jobs are to try and push there guy past the QB and if the QB doesn't recognize that and step up in the pocket than that isn't on the lineman.

 

[Darkside]

Not every sack is on the offensive lineman and I think that is one of the points that K9 is getting at. Tackles jobs are to try and push there guy past the QB and if the QB doesn't recognize that and step up in the pocket than that isn't on the lineman.

That's the point I was making when I said with 8 sacks the blame can be spread around: partly Oline, partly Kolb, some of it because of coverage even. I just said that like 2 (make that 3) posts ago.

 

[Russ Smith]

I agree kind of--clearly the Oline's worst game. I do think their issues are systemic though and not easy to fix. I think it's a bad line (though no worse than some other lines--you mention the Packers for example). I think they've done a good job providing help and hiding some issues and this past game they weren't able to do that. I just hope they don't get exposed every game once people figure out how totally weak it is.

And where I agree with K9 is Rodgers for example has gotten much better at dealing with having a bad Oline. He got sacked alot early on, people were saying it was going to be his achilles heel. But the Oline gelled some, he got better and suddenly they were a great team.

I don't think Kolb will ever be Rodgers he doesn't have that type of arm or talent but I don't think the OL looks bad because of Kolb.

I think it looks bad because we have a journeyman LT, a LG past his prime, a middle of the road C, a RG who's been struggling in recent years and is apparently hurt, and a rookie RT.

Massie had 3 good games and then one bad one. I don't think he looked bad against Wake because of Kolb although there was one sack that was clearly Kolb's fault where he backed up right where Massie blocked Wake, I pointed that out in the game thread on Sunday IIRC.

What I like about Kolb is that's he's shown he can get better.

 

[Darkside]

And where I agree with K9 is Rodgers for example has gotten much better at dealing with having a bad Oline. He got sacked alot early on, people were saying it was going to be his achilles heel. But the Oline gelled some, he got better and suddenly they were a great team.

I don't think Kolb will ever be Rodgers he doesn't have that type of arm or talent but I don't think the OL looks bad because of Kolb.

I think it looks bad because we have a journeyman LT, a LG past his prime, a middle of the road C, a RG who's been struggling in recent years and is apparently hurt, and a rookie RT.

Massie had 3 good games and then one bad one. I don't think he looked bad against Wake because of Kolb although there was one sack that was clearly Kolb's fault where he backed up right where Massie blocked Wake, I pointed that out in the game thread on Sunday IIRC.

What I like about Kolb is that's he's shown he can get better.

Agree, and sometimes I think we over-rate the importance of an Oline altogether man. When Pittsburgh beat us in the SB they had the worst line in football. And not just by a little bit, by a LOT.

(Edit: Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread. I'm at work and this was the only interesting thread going on. LOL)

 

[Russ Smith]

Not every sack is on the offensive lineman and I think that is one of the points that K9 is getting at. Tackles jobs are to try and push there guy past the QB and if the QB doesn't recognize that and step up in the pocket than that isn't on the lineman.

I think we all agree on that there was one obvious one of those in the game that I pointed out on the game thread and others did too.

 

[Russ Smith]

Agree, and sometimes I think we over-rate the importance of an Oline altogether man. When Pittsburgh beat us in the SB they had the worst line in football. And not just by a little bit, by a LOT.

(Edit: Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread. I'm at work and this was the only interesting thread going on. LOL)

Well even there Ben is one of those guys who holds the ball forever, way longer than Kolb does. I forget who it was that did a piece on Ben after that season where they said if you want to teach a QB how to deal with a pass rush do NOT let him watch film of Ben. he's a complete outlier, very few guys are that big and tough to bring down and yet agile enough to do what he does.

he's remarkable at extending plays and making huge plays, but he takes a lot of sacks as a result. 5 times in his career he's been sacked 40 or more times in a season.

 

[gmabel830]

I just read (in the comments, from a couple of people) in a PFT article about him geting snubbed for Defensive Player of the Week that Wake was credited with 13 QB pressures/hurries against Arizona... wow!

According to PFF, he had 5 sacks (I guess they rounded up the 4.5), 7 hurries, and 1 QB hit... PFF gave him a +11.4, which is one of their highest ratings for a defensive pass rusher ever.

 

[Mulli]

I just read (in the comments, from a couple of people) in a PFT article about him geting snubbed for Defensive Player of the Week that Wake was credited with 13 QB pressures/hurries against Arizona... wow!

K9 would give that award to Kolb. Hey-o!

 

[gmabel830]

K9 would give that award to Kolb. Hey-o!

I tried to stay out of their debate, as they both probably analyzed things in more detail than me, but hard to deny Wake had one heck of a game!

 

[az jam]

K-9 excellent analysis. Its a good thread with differences of opinion but respect. That is what this site should be all about.
Its amazing the data that can now be analyzed with these so called Coaches film breakdown. Again thanks K-9.

 

[kerouac9]

I just read (in the comments, from a couple of people) in a PFT article about him geting snubbed for Defensive Player of the Week that Wake was credited with 13 QB pressures/hurries against Arizona... wow!

According to PFF, he had 5 sacks (I guess they rounded up the 4.5), 7 hurries, and 1 QB hit... PFF gave him a +11.4, which is one of their highest ratings for a defensive pass rusher ever.

It's possible. He probably had four or five hurries in that first half if you count the sack as a hurry. But Kolb remained remarkably clean through three quarters that I watched.

 

[Mulli]

It's possible. He probably had four or five hurries in that first half if you count the sack as a hurry. But Kolb remained remarkably clean through three quarters that I watched.

K9, thanks for the effort, I guess...

 

[Duckjake]

K9 would give that award to Kolb. Hey-o!

Yessir it's just like all those miracle comebacks Kurt Warner had after getting the Cardinals in a hole early.

 

[Mulli]

Yessir it's just like all those miracle comebacks Kurt Warner had after getting the Cardinals in a hole early.

Haha. I don't know why I ever said that.

 

[Russ Smith]

Ben Muth Football Outsiders:

Ben Muth: Cameron Wake beats Bobby Massie around the edge for a sack on third down in Dolphins territory. People seem to think that because the Cardinals are 3-0, their offensive tackles are suddenly not bad. This is not the case.

Ryan Tannenhill takes my all-time pet peeve sack. The Dolphins tackles are cut blocking to get the ends hands down on a three-step drop. Tannenhill doesn't see anyone open, so he makes like a statue in the pocket. Sam Acho sheds the cut and sacks Tannenhill from behind. I'm rooting against the Dolphins and I yelled at my TV for him to throw the ball.

Wake is destroying Massie. Three sacks for Wake in 13 dropbacks


He praised the OL later for keeping Kolb clean on the last drive and also the other writer pointed out Kolb took 2 sacks on the first 2 plays which I think means he thinks he held the ball too long on those 2 plays.

 

[Mulli]

Ben Muth Football Outsiders:

Ben Muth: Cameron Wake beats Bobby Massie around the edge for a sack on third down in Dolphins territory. People seem to think that because the Cardinals are 3-0, their offensive tackles are suddenly not bad. This is not the case.

Ryan Tannenhill takes my all-time pet peeve sack. The Dolphins tackles are cut blocking to get the ends hands down on a three-step drop. Tannenhill doesn't see anyone open, so he makes like a statue in the pocket. Sam Acho sheds the cut and sacks Tannenhill from behind. I'm rooting against the Dolphins and I yelled at my TV for him to throw the ball.

Wake is destroying Massie. Three sacks for Wake in 13 dropbacks


He praised the OL later for keeping Kolb clean on the last drive and also the other writer pointed out Kolb took 2 sacks on the first 2 plays which I think means he thinks he held the ball too long on those 2 plays.

I am no expert, but That cut block was more of a cut whiff.

 

[Duckjake]

Ryan Tannenhill takes my all-time pet peeve sack. The Dolphins tackles are cut blocking to get the ends hands down on a three-step drop. Tannenhill doesn't see anyone open, so he makes like a statue in the pocket. Sam Acho sheds the cut and sacks Tannenhill from behind. I'm rooting against the Dolphins and I yelled at my TV for him to throw the ball.

That's because Tannehill is just like Jake Plummer.

 

[Mulli]

That's because Tannehill is just like Jake Plummer.

He is better.

 

[D-Dogg]

Wait, Duckjake doesn't have Mulli on ignore?

 

[Mulli]

Wait, Duckjake doesn't have Mulli on ignore?

 

[D-Dogg]

I'm so confused!!