Colangelo is CHEAP

[cheng]

Originally posted by slinslin
Wait

Marbury, Hardaway, Knight, Trybanski, 2005 second round pick

for

Clark, Eisley, Lampe, White and Vujanic who needs to be signed and bought out of his contract.

 

[Ryanwb]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I certainly don't agree that he has very little invested in the Diamondbacks (he is just as responsible for debts as his partners are), but they are definitely much more important to him than the Suns.

You could tell the Suns took a back seat as soon as Bryan took over GM responsibilities. However I assure you (and if BIM ever logs on he has some figures) that Colangelo is only a frontman representing his silent partners.

His passion is baseball, that is obvious, but his money is still tied into the Suns.

 

[slinslin]

Also right now it looks like Sebastian Telfair would have been available when we pick.

Quite possibly a much better prospect than Vujanic and almost definately cheaper as well.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Ryanwb
You could tell the Suns took a back seat as soon as Bryan took over GM responsibilities. However I assure you (and if BIM ever logs on he has some figures) that Colangelo is only a frontman representing his silent partners.

His passion is baseball, that is obvious, but his money is still tied into the Suns.

Well, it's obvious we agree on that much at least--this deal is horrible, and completely about helping lighten Colangelo's pockets.

I've always been a huge fan of Colangelo, but after this season, I have definitely soured on him and his son.

 

[devilalum]

I just got home from work and looked at this for the first time.

I feel sick.

Colangelo has basically given away half the team to line his pockets.

What quality free agent is going to want to come here?

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by devilalum
I just got home from work and looked at this for the first time.

I feel sick.

Colangelo has basically given away half the team to line his pockets.

What quality free agent is going to want to come here?

About the only arguement he could use is that he has some cap space AND the cash to pay them.

Before considering re-signing Dice or Clark, the Suns are currently set to have salaries of $33.8 million plus $2.1 million for the #5 pick for a total of $35.9 million. Assuming the cap is set at $45 million, this would leave $9.1 million for Vujanic, Dice, and any other FA's.

Assuming the Suns spend $2 million on Vujanic (his salary in Italy) and Dice signs for the Veteran minimum (can be added after the team hits the cap), the Suns would have $7.1 million to offer an FA.

The only teams that can offer more are the Nuggets, Jazz, Clippers, and Hawks. Above that, the Suns would need to work out a "sign and trade". On a player with a long contract, White's contract that expires after next season actually becomes an asset.

 

[devilalum]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
About the only arguement he could use is that he has some cap space AND the cash to pay them.

Before considering re-signing Dice or Clark, the Suns are currently set to have salaries of $33.8 million plus $2.1 million for the #5 pick for a total of $35.9 million. Assuming the cap is set at $45 million, this would leave $9.1 million for Vujanic, Dice, and any other FA's.

Assuming the Suns spend $2 million on Vujanic (his salary in Italy) and Dice signs for the Veteran minimum (can be added after the team hits the cap), the Suns would have $7.1 million to offer an FA.

The only teams that can offer more are the Nuggets, Jazz, Clippers, and Hawks. Above that, the Suns would need to work out a "sign and trade". On a player with a long contract, White's contract that expires after next season actually becomes an asset.

That's fine but what have the Suns done in the last 5 years to lead anybody to believe that they are on the verge of contending. For every step they take forward they take 2 steps back.

 

[elindholm]

Assuming the Suns spend $2 million on Vujanic (his salary in Italy) and Dice signs for the Veteran minimum (can be added after the team hits the cap), the Suns would have $7.1 million to offer an FA.

There's no need to sign Vujanic before using the cap money on someone else. They just need to manage themselves slightly over the cap so they have access to the MLE. Part of it could go to Vujanic and part to someone else.

In the scenario where White goes to Charlotte, the Suns have enough room to give Bryant pretty much whatever he wants. However, I now agree that (a) even if he leaves the Lakers, he'll probably prefer to go somewhere else, and (b) it probably wouldn't be a good idea for the Suns anyway, since their ability to add a supporting cast is now severely compromised. Back when they had extra draft picks to work with, that wasn't true.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by elindholm
Assuming the Suns spend $2 million on Vujanic (his salary in Italy) and Dice signs for the Veteran minimum (can be added after the team hits the cap), the Suns would have $7.1 million to offer an FA.

There's no need to sign Vujanic before using the cap money on someone else. They just need to manage themselves slightly over the cap so they have access to the MLE. Part of it could go to Vujanic and part to someone else.

In the scenario where White goes to Charlotte, the Suns have enough room to give Bryant pretty much whatever he wants. However, I now agree that (a) even if he leaves the Lakers, he'll probably prefer to go somewhere else, and (b) it probably wouldn't be a good idea for the Suns anyway, since their ability to add a supporting cast is now severely compromised. Back when they had extra draft picks to work with, that wasn't true.

I wouldn't say their ability to add a supporting cast is now "severely compromised". The future first-round pick and the second-round pick included in the trade did not have a lot of value IMO. Of course that doesn't mean I'm not upset that they traded them.


Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm
Assuming the Suns spend $2 million on Vujanic (his salary in Italy) and Dice signs for the Veteran minimum (can be added after the team hits the cap), the Suns would have $7.1 million to offer an FA.

There's no need to sign Vujanic before using the cap money on someone else. They just need to manage themselves slightly over the cap so they have access to the MLE. Part of it could go to Vujanic and part to someone else.

In the scenario where White goes to Charlotte, the Suns have enough room to give Bryant pretty much whatever he wants. However, I now agree that (a) even if he leaves the Lakers, he'll probably prefer to go somewhere else, and (b) it probably wouldn't be a good idea for the Suns anyway, since their ability to add a supporting cast is now severely compromised. Back when they had extra draft picks to work with, that wasn't true.

Unfortunately, the free agent pool outside of Kobe is not very good at all this summer. 2005 will be better, but if we are to trust the C's (shyeah), we will be active in 2004.

I'm really starting to think that we will defintely add maybe one player--and probably overpay for him. There's not much management can do right now to make me have anymore faith in them. I certainly hope they listen to the fans, because I'm sure a lot of them have a lot to say. (Just look at this board)

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by slinslin
THANK YOU and please sell the team if you don't want to spend.

Wow, I thought I was on the Cardinals' page.....

 

[Savage58]

I still don't get it.

The numbers kind of made sense in the marbury/penny deal for caproom. That was a shock.

But this?!?!? We're giving up 1st round draft picks for cap space, WTF!?

 

[binkar]

I think we did give up alot, but how many young players can you have on the same team?

 

[ehale911]

Originally posted by Savage58
I still don't get it.

The numbers kind of made sense in the marbury/penny deal for caproom. That was a shock.

But this?!?!? We're giving up 1st round draft picks for cap space, WTF!?

It's not even really for cap space. It was for luxury tax money. Basically we gave up two 1st round picks so that Jerry could pocket something like 12-18 million.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by ehale911
It's not even really for cap space. It was for luxury tax money. Basically we gave up two 1st round picks so that Jerry could pocket something like 12-18 million.

That's not exactly true--he doesn't "pocket" anything. He just doesn't pay it. He's not getting any extra money, he's just not spending as much. And the product he's trying to sell is going to suffer for it, horribly.

 

[ehale911]

Originally posted by Chaplin
That's not exactly true--he doesn't "pocket" anything. He just doesn't pay it. He's not getting any extra money, he's just not spending as much. And the product he's trying to sell is going to suffer for it, horribly.

]

Yeah, true. That was my mistake. It just irks me greatly that they made a trade that hurts the future of this team in order to possibly save 14 million this year.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by ehale911
]

Yeah, true. That was my mistake. It just irks me greatly that they made a trade that hurts the future of this team in order to possibly save 14 million this year.

Oh, I agree. And we're saving 14 million this year, but NOT taking any money off of NEXT year's salary cap figure.

 

[ehale911]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Oh, I agree. And we're saving 14 million this year, but NOT taking any money off of NEXT year's salary cap figure.

That is correct which is why I don't understand. If it would have been Eisley instead of Googs, I would have no problem because it helps us long term. However, all this does is save the owners money, it has no effect on the cap other than I guess the trade exemption we got which we will most likely never use.

 

[Savage58]

If just one of those picks turns out to be a huge NBA player in the future, I hope the Suns are ridiculed and the Collangellos never live it down. This looks just as bad as the Hershell Walker trade back in the day, I had some faith in the Collangellos, but now it's gone.

This is KILLING your fan base Jerry, you SUCK! And to think I don't even like basketball*, I can imagine what you diehard NBAers are going through, HAHA.

*I do like to believe the teams in my area are decent, incase I gotta talk some trash involving NBA inbetween football conversations.

 

[cly2tw]

I'm really pissed off by this trade.

I don't think I'll be following the Suns for awhile. They've lost too much flexibility and bargaining chips to build a contending team in the future.

 

[Billythekid]

Gee, those Pistons will be damn good now.

Nice trade.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Well at least you guys on this board don't bash people on this Forum who don't like the Suns moves. Some of you might be threated by other posters on the Cards board... I bet you Tango would defend this move if it were the Cards....

 

[Chaplin]

Here's a question. Say we sign a free agent or two this summer, would that player or players equal one Stephon Marbury? Essentially, we could be paying out the same amount of money either way, except in one scenario it would be with Marbury, the other would be with a couple other players who probably wouldn't be in the top 3 on our team.

 

[cly2tw]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Here's a question. Say we sign a free agent or two this summer, would that player or players equal one Stephon Marbury? Essentially, we could be paying out the same amount of money either way, except in one scenario it would be with Marbury, the other would be with a couple other players who probably wouldn't be in the top 3 on our team.

No, unless one of them is Kobe or Pierce or McGrady. Even if Amare turns out to be a franchise player we all hoped for, we need another of the caliber of players in the class of a Marbury to be a true contender. I don't think JJ will be that ever, though he'd be very good if he could stay consistent.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by cly2tw
No, unless one of them is Kobe or Pierce or McGrady. Even if Amare turns out to be a franchise player we all hoped for, we need another of the caliber of players in the class of a Marbury to be a true contender. I don't think JJ will be that ever, though he'd be very good if he could stay consistent.

I think you're right. I just hope the C's aren't banking on that happening right now...