Coro's Suns Dish: This and That

YouJustGotSUNSD

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Old news, new news, old news different angle

Voluntary workouts are always slow in the beginning but the Suns' ones got an interesting start this week with Grant Hill and Steve Nash showing up early. Actually, Hill has been here for a couple weeks.
Hill, his talented wife (singer Tamia) and their two daughters (including a new baby) moved into their new PV digs, an estate she hadn't even seen yet, and got their older daughter started in kindergarten. Hill has been working hard with the Suns athletic trainers daily and has been enlightened about their methodology, which is catching on leaguewide. But for the first time, he also can take to the court in addition to that work and says he is feeling great.
He threw down an alleyoop the other day that prompted assistant coach Alvin Gentry to yell out, "1995!" That was the first year Gentry coached Hill in Detroit, a stretch of five years when Hill was first team All-NBA once and second team All-NBA four times. He looks and feels good but the long season will be the proving ground naturally.
And you won't be surprised about this. He's working on his three-point shot. He has only shot 40 threes in the past seven seasons combined. I'm guessing he puts up about 150 this season. In 1999-2000, he made 34 of 98. His forte is the mid-range shot but he has never practiced the three and he'll get chances, especially since he's likely going to start. The only difference with Hill is he won't just be spotting up because he can step in and take a 15- to-17-footer or dribble and dish. The staff is getting excited about how he looks.
ELSEWHERE ...
* In Spain, Boris Diaw's French team is 2-1 in the European Championship after Tony Parker missed one of two free throws with .2 seconds to go in a one-point loss to Slovenia. Diaw is averaging 8.2 points and 5.0 rebounds a game as Parker dominates the scoring and Diaw does the distributing. Diaw had a key block on Andrea Bargnani in France's win over Italy, a game in which he also dunked on him. France faces Dirk Nowitzki's Germans this weekend.
* Look for Steve Nash to be in an upcoming "Got milk?" ad as well as a magazine cover.
* Watching USA Basketball the past couple weeks made me think about how the Suns and Mike Miller have had some mutual admiration going for a while. Both would greatly benefit from the other but now Miller's new coach, Marc Iavaroni, will value Miller a lot as he tries to rebuild the Griz.
* Luis Scola looked really good (maybe not tourney MVP good but the international vote carried him over a split American vote among LeBron, Melo, Kobe and maybe even captain Kidd). It made me wonder about why the Spurs would let Scola (Manu's and Oberto's countryman) go to Houston (a division rival) for practically nothing. But Scola was not going to be in their rotation and San Antonio created the cap space to sign Ime Udoka by moving Jackie Butler and taking Vassilis Spanoulis, who is going back to Greece. Plus, NBA people in Vegas still don't think Scola's game will translate so well to the NBA and that he might not be the right frontcourt compliment for Yao Ming.
* This flexible, moving roster has worked out beautifully for USA Basketball. Jason Kidd was a perfect addition because he won't shoot (not to mention that he can't shoot well). He took five shots in the first seven games and that's just fine on a team chockful of scorers. Kobe Bryant's back in the mix. Michael Redd got a chance to be added. The U.S. had no business needing to be in such a qualifying tournament but it was beneficial.
* Argentina's fans were the best. They stood and sang all game. The U.S. fans drummed up a feeble "U-S-A" chant that was short-lived and drowned out by the small faction of Argentinians.
* Flash from the past: Mario Bennett joined Nash, Hill, Eddie House, Pat Burke and 2007 training camp Suns guard Davin White for three-on-three play Thursday.
* As for some of your questions:
1. We haven't heard much from Shawn Marion, other than when he popped up at a video game publicity event and had familiar takes. The article is at [URL="http://slamonline.com/online/2007/08/live-with-marion-pierce-foye-frye-west-and-arenas/"]http://slamonline.com/onlin...[/URL] In fact, I haven't talked to anybody that has heard from him lately and Jerry Colangelo, a longtime Marion backer, did not sound too happy that Marion has come up injured the past two summers when Colangelo tried to create a spot for him. You can expect Marion to be bent about the trade talks (and he definitely does come up in them, as he has been for years) and not getting a contract extension. The good thing for Suns fans is you could get two "contract years" (aka Erick Dampier's best seasons) of play from Marion if that is a driving motivation for him. If Marion believes he can opt out of a deal paying him $17.1 million in 2008-09, then he will have to perform like a $20 million player. That number seems far-fetched and implausible on a team that will pay Stoudemire and Nash $27.3 million combined that season. And if he decides not to opt out, he would then be in the last year of his contract with motivation to set his free agent market value again.
2. About drafting a big ... Picking in the 20s, the Suns were not going to find a big that can help them. Maybe Alando Tucker won't either. But where the Suns lost out on the chance for a young big man was the lottery. In that top-seven range, they might have been in the Horford/Noah/Jianlian mix (although they did seem to love Jeff Green an awful lot).
3. About trading Diaw ... It can't and won't happen at this stage. Even if Phoenix wanted to move him (and I really doubt that they do, given how much they believe in him and back him), there is not a team out there that would see him as a $9 million/year player after last season's play and back issues. Some other NBA personnel in the league have told me that there was not a market for him at that price but we will never really know that.
4. About what happens when Stoudemire gets two fouls and the Suns need someone to guard Duncan ... They're in trouble. I don't think there is an answer for that now that KG went to Boston. P.J. Brown might be a slightly better solution than Kurt Thomas but we're talking about possibly the greatest power forward in the game's history. Thomas made things more difficult but even he could not stop him with all his crafty veteran knowledge and sound fundamentals. They surely will keep looking but they are constricted by their payroll situation too. With Stoudemire and Marion at max salaries, Nash nearly there and Diaw getting $9 million off the bench, any frontcourt addition (via the trade exception from the Thomas deal with Seattle) would be twice as costly because of the tax. I often hear about how Steven Hunter should have never been let go. His five-year contract worth almost $17 million seemed like a lot at the time when Phoenix was trying to keep him on the cheap but it does not look so crazy when you think of the Suns needing a big man who can block shots, rebound and run the floor. At the same time, the Sixers have already tried to trade him and he did not pass a physical because of his surgically repaired right knee. Maybe he still is having punctuality issues there.
 
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Mainstreet

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I often hear about how Steven Hunter should have never been let go. His five-year contract worth almost $17 million seemed like a lot at the time when Phoenix was trying to keep him on the cheap but it does not look so crazy when you think of the Suns needing a big man who can block shots, rebound and run the floor.

Why go so far back in time to Hunter. The Suns had only to re-sign TT to get a better frontline player. He would have been a much better signing than Banks.
 

Rab

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Why go so far back in time to Hunter. The Suns had only to re-sign TT to get a better frontline player. He would have been a much better signing than Banks.
I have always been kind of baffled that they gave Banks the money they wouldn't give to TT.
 

Cheesebeef

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I have always been kind of baffled that they gave Banks the money they wouldn't give to TT.

i think the Banks move was an over-reaction to what happened earlier in the summer with TT and Salmons. They made sure they were going to get their guy that time.

sucks though, TT would be perfect on this team - I think they would literally be able to outscore everyone, including SA, especially with Grant Hill as well.
 

JCSunsfan

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i think the Banks move was an over-reaction to what happened earlier in the summer with TT and Salmons. They made sure they were going to get their guy that time.

sucks though, TT would be perfect on this team - I think they would literally be able to outscore everyone, including SA, especially with Grant Hill as well.

They need a big who will rebound, block shots and run the floor. TT doesn't do any of those things.

Hunter does two of the three.
 

Mainstreet

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They need a big who will rebound, block shots and run the floor. TT doesn't do any of those things.

Hunter does two of the three.

I really liked Hunter because he was one of the few legitimate bigs that were allowed to play some meaningful minutes with the Suns. However, TT did just about everything excepts perhaps block shots. Also TT could actually help win games for the Suns in the playoffs.

He could also play all three front line positions and shoot lights out at crunch time.
 

Cheesebeef

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They need a big who will rebound, block shots and run the floor. TT doesn't do any of those things.

Hunter does two of the three.

yes, Hunter can do that, but he can't stay on the court under DA's system because he destroys the offense.

TT can board a bit, creates match-up nightmares on offense, can create his own shot and hits clutch shots, not to mention drop the hammer on someone every once in a while.

And bottom line, you're not going to find a big who will rebound, block shots and run the floor for 5 million dollars a year - much less, one who can do that and be an off
 

Rab

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I was a Steven Hunter guy too. If he had a better basketball IQ, he'd probably still be here. He did disrupt the offense a lot, but he did a decent job of blocking shots and rebounding. He was an athletic big too, so he fit well. He was just plain dumb at times.

TT proved he could be valuable in this system. Defensively he doesn't give you much, and his rebounding left a little to be desired, but he could really space the floor and create matchup problems for a lot of teams. I'd feel much better with the team + TT than I do with the current roster.

Amare/Diaw/Marks
Marion/TT/Diaw
Hill/Marion/Tucker/Pike
Bell/LB/Strawberry
Nash/Banks/LB

I could live with that.

*edit* if TT was here, Banks would not be so disregard Banks in the lineup
 

fordronken

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Am I the only one who think that Tim Thomas is a terrible player once he gets a contract?

He is absolutely not a guy, even in a contract year, that you can depend on in a playoff series. Once he has a contract, he just stays in "I just wanna stand around and shoot threes" mode.

I'd love to have TT if he had a five year deal with a team option every season.
 

Chaplin

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Am I the only one who think that Tim Thomas is a terrible player once he gets a contract?

He is absolutely not a guy, even in a contract year, that you can depend on in a playoff series. Once he has a contract, he just stays in "I just wanna stand around and shoot threes" mode.

I'd love to have TT if he had a five year deal with a team option every season.

Amen. Amen. Amen.
 

azirish

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I was intrigued by Coro's comments about Marion having two "contract years".

What could he do to earn his contract? My suggestion would be to start attacking the basket with the same intensity he had in his early years. Everyone knows he shys away from contact and it seriously hurts his effectiveness.
 

Chaplin

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I was intrigued by Coro's comments about Marion having two "contract years".

What could he do to earn his contract? My suggestion would be to start attacking the basket with the same intensity he had in his early years. Everyone knows he shys away from contact and it seriously hurts his effectiveness.

Sure, but remember, apparently around the league, most NBA people think he's worth the money we're paying him. We'd love for him to improve enough to earn the contract to our standards, but if he looks around the league, he may not have the desire to improve anything dramatically.
 

elindholm

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Sure, but remember, apparently around the league, most NBA people think he's worth the money we're paying him.

Based on what? Surely you don't mean that other NBA coaches or executives think this. Fans may, but they (by and large) don't know anything.
 

Chaplin

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Based on what? Surely you don't mean that other NBA coaches or executives think this. Fans may, but they (by and large) don't know anything.

That has been widely accepted for years, and it has been highly publicized on this site.
 

Cheesebeef

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That has been widely accepted for years, and it has been highly publicized on this site.

that Marion is worth a MAX contract? That's been widely accepted for years? By who? And what's your evidence as to being highly publicized on this site?
 

elindholm

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That has been widely accepted for years, and it has been highly publicized on this site.

I think it's widely accepted that Marion deserves his status as a low-tier All-Star, but that's different from being 12th in salary in the entire league.
 

F-Dog

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Based on what? Surely you don't mean that other NBA coaches or executives think this.
If NBA execs think Rashard Lewis is worth a max deal, all bets are off the table where Marion is concerned. :shrug:
 

elindholm

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If NBA execs think Rashard Lewis is worth a max deal, all bets are off the table where Marion is concerned. :shrug:

But "NBA execs" don't think any such thing. One exec decided to give Lewis a max deal, and I doubt that even he thinks it was a good idea.

Come on, you know as well as I do that the majority of NBA execs think that Lewis's contract is absurd. He's completely untradeable now.
 

JCSunsfan

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But "NBA execs" don't think any such thing. One exec decided to give Lewis a max deal, and I doubt that even he thinks it was a good idea.

Come on, you know as well as I do that the majority of NBA execs think that Lewis's contract is absurd. He's completely untradeable now.

If Shawn Marion had become a free agent in any of the last 4 years, he would have gotten a max deal. I have absolutely no doubt of that.
 

CaptainInsano

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If Shawn Marion had become a free agent in any of the last 4 years, he would have gotten a max deal. I have absolutely no doubt of that.

It is not that simple though, it depends on what team.

Joe Johnson got an asinine amount of money because the hawks were one of the worst teams in the nba.

The magic are probably desperate to stay in the playoffs, since the east is such a mess you might go up against a team like dallas and pull an upset leading to a championship, or at least squeak into the finals somehow.

Crappy teams that want to get out of the rut would of course offer someone like marion 70-72 million, that doesn't really mean he would be worth it just that they have money to throw around and are desperate.

This is to me what is important:

On a championship caliber team, marion at 70/5 is wasting a quite a bit of money because of his glaring scoring weaknesses.
 

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