Couch to join Pack...

[Cheesebeef]

Hey if the refs hadn't blown that call maybe they win that game too bad the TB def gave up the game winning TD after that. As for Couch leading CLE my memory is hazy but I think it was their other QB that was lead the charge into the playoffs that year. BTW Couch is a freaking crybaby. BTW Favre himself said it was the booze and drugs look at his stats SINCE then you can see the drop off.
The same media that proclaims Moss a selfish hood and degrades him (first player in history last year to average 1 td 100 yards a game) pumps up Favre as some sort of great player. He is not.

You are so out of your mind - and the fact that you don't even clearly remember what happened in that Title Game - The Bucs were already down 11-6 at the point that a questionable call was made - just shows that it is you who is distorting facts in order to make your argument.

Your hate of Favre is simply ridiculous as well - Was that play horrible in the Eagles game - hell yeah - but if their defense would have stopped a 4 and 30 with under 30 seconds left - Favre wins that game - again. Favre overrated - you don't know anything about football if you really believe this comment.

Oh and Mike Holmgren with Super Bowl Rings and restoring two dead franchises is better than DG.

 

[jmt]

Must be a light newsday. Mmm, whose better, King or Couch? Neither has done much of anything ever. Both have potential and both are reasonable back ups. Neither is a Brett Favre, who IMO is not overated. Now Jake, thats overated!

 

[Russ Smith]

Ask Favre that is what he said.

Elway won SBs in his final 2 seasons.

The coach is telling him to stop throwing his dumb selfish ints and he refuses.

The coach is saying he needs to learn to throw the ball away and that was 2 years ago.

How was the coach to blame for that PHI toss. That was perhaps the most atrocious play I have ever seen in a playoff game ever. Oh wait I forgot about his 6! ints in one playoff game.

The announcers after praising him all game in typical Favre worship fashion were amazed when it happened. I was laughing my guts out as their jaws dropped, I see a fair amount of GB games he does it a lot.

Please produce the quote where Favre said he only won a superbowl because he was on drugs and drinking. I've seen him say that he had a problem during that time but I've never seen him say that drinking and drugs is the reason he won the superbowl.

You can live with the picks when we're talking about a guy with 7 seasons of 30+ td passes and 12 straight years over 3000 yards passing. Yes he makes some dumb throws, also makes a lot of throws just about nobody else in the NFL can make. His stats are amazing when you consider he lost the primes of both Sharpe and Brooks and had to make do with guys like Schroeder.

You reall are going to claim that his coach told him stop throwing picks, and Favre refused? You really think he said no I am going to throw picks if I want to? How inane is that? Would I believe his coach told him to be careful, sure but that's not what you said you said Favre refused to stop throwing interceptions.

Did Favre run over DG's dog or something?

 

[azdad1978]

Oh and Mike Holmgren with Super Bowl Rings and restoring two dead franchises is better than DG.

lol those are fighting words to VF

 

[WisconsinCard]

pumps up Favre as some sort of great player. He is not.

He will be a first ballot Hall Of Famer. You all know I can't stand the Pack but I gotta give credit where credit is due. Favre is probably in the top 5 QB's of all time. I do agree that he has put his stats in front of the team but that is not the first tinme an athlete has not admitted he couldn't go. There is a fine line between confindence and arrogance.

 

[Russ Smith]

He will be a first ballot Hall Of Famer. You all know I can't stand the Pack but I gotta give credit where credit is due. Favre is probably in the top 5 QB's of all time. I do agree that he has put his stats in front of the team but that is not the first tinme an athlete has not admitted he couldn't go. There is a fine line between confindence and arrogance.

I'm still trying to clarify why when Moss openly admits he takes plays off and plays hard when he feels like it, he's apparently not telling the truth.

But when Favre allegedly says that drugs and alcohol won the Superbowl for him, we're supposed to take that as the truth?

I still haven't quite figured out the rules on when you take an athlete at face value and when you disregard what he says. But there appears to be some sort of connection as to whether said comments help VF defend a statement he made or not.

Favre can certainly be accused of playing hurt, 99 for example he clearly played in pain and it hurt his numbers and the team.

That said I think Favre is a lot like Elway in that when he retires that team is suddenly going to find out how the rest of the NFL feels with a mere mortal at QB.

 

[abomb]

He will be a first ballot Hall Of Famer. You all know I can't stand the Pack but I gotta give credit where credit is due. Favre is probably in the top 5 QB's of all time. I do agree that he has put his stats in front of the team but that is not the first tinme an athlete has not admitted he couldn't go. There is a fine line between confindence and arrogance.

I couldn't agree more.

A-Bomb

 

[AZCB34]

Let me see if I understand this. Favre is selfish and a moron. So as a starter, I believe the Packers record is 126-66 (66%) compared to Green's 97-63 (61%) in regular season games. The Packers with favre at the helm have made the playoffs 9 times to Green's 8 as HC. The Packers have been to 2 Super Bowls with favre at the helm and Green has been to none as HC. Packers won one Super Bowl with Favre at the helm and AGAIN Green has never been as HC (sorry but it is lame to claim Greens SB ring when he was with the Niners).

Yeah, that Favre sure is selfish and a moron

Does anyone really care if he wants to mentor a young QB? Does that REALLY matter? While it would be nice (I would love for guys like Favre to mentor young players personally), I certainly could care less if a vet QB mentors anyone. That is what the coaches are really there for right? To develop players AND win games?

If Green had been hired by GB, VF would be praising Favre right now probably. That is why your posts ring so hollow.

 

[vikesfan]

Please produce the quote where Favre said he only won a superbowl because he was on drugs and drinking. I've seen him say that he had a problem during that time but I've never seen him say that drinking and drugs is the reason he won the superbowl.

You can live with the picks when we're talking about a guy with 7 seasons of 30+ td passes and 12 straight years over 3000 yards passing. Yes he makes some dumb throws, also makes a lot of throws just about nobody else in the NFL can make. His stats are amazing when you consider he lost the primes of both Sharpe and Brooks and had to make do with guys like Schroeder.

You reall are going to claim that his coach told him stop throwing picks, and Favre refused? You really think he said no I am going to throw picks if I want to? How inane is that? Would I believe his coach told him to be careful, sure but that's not what you said you said Favre refused to stop throwing interceptions.

Did Favre run over DG's dog or something?

His coach told him throw the ball away two years ago and you saw what he did in PHI last year. Selfish moron = Favre

 

[vikesfan]

Let me see if I understand this. Favre is selfish and a moron. So as a starter, I believe the Packers record is 126-66 (66%) compared to Green's 97-63 (61%) in regular season games. The Packers with favre at the helm have made the playoffs 9 times to Green's 8 as HC. The Packers have been to 2 Super Bowls with favre at the helm and Green has been to none as HC. Packers won one Super Bowl with Favre at the helm and AGAIN Green has never been as HC (sorry but it is lame to claim Greens SB ring when he was with the Niners).

Yeah, that Favre sure is selfish and a moron

Does anyone really care if he wants to mentor a young QB? Does that REALLY matter? While it would be nice (I would love for guys like Favre to mentor young players personally), I certainly could care less if a vet QB mentors anyone. That is what the coaches are really there for right? To develop players AND win games?

If Green had been hired by GB, VF would be praising Favre right now probably. That is why your posts ring so hollow.

No I wouldn't I would be saying Favre needs to listen to DG. DG would have changed Favre so that he wouldn't have given the game away like he did in PHI last year. DG wouldn't put up with Favre's selfish moron-ness.

 

[vikesfan]

lol those are fighting words to VF

Holmgren has done virtually nothing in SEA. Last year they made the playoffs AFTER he was stripped of the GM. Did you miss that.
Wolf was the man in GB.

All Holmgren has done is win 1 SB and guess what that means nothing because terrible coaches like Ditka and Switzer have won SBs it doesn't mean you are a good coach.

DG owned him in MIN.

 

[vikesfan]

I'm still trying to clarify why when Moss openly admits he takes plays off and plays hard when he feels like it, he's apparently not telling the truth.

But when Favre allegedly says that drugs and alcohol won the Superbowl for him, we're supposed to take that as the truth?

I still haven't quite figured out the rules on when you take an athlete at face value and when you disregard what he says. But there appears to be some sort of connection as to whether said comments help VF defend a statement he made or not.

Favre can certainly be accused of playing hurt, 99 for example he clearly played in pain and it hurt his numbers and the team.

That said I think Favre is a lot like Elway in that when he retires that team is suddenly going to find out how the rest of the NFL feels with a mere mortal at QB.

Hey I explained the Moss thing. Moss's comments were taken out of context. He was asked do you need Carter to make you play hard. He was insulted he ALWAYS plays hard. So he replied I play hard when I want to. That was taken out of context. I have seen every Moss game played several time and he always plays hard. I have never seen him take a play off ever. Last year for example he became the 1st play in NFL HISTORY to average 1 td and 100 yards a game.

 

[azdad1978]

I have seen every Moss game played several time and he always plays hard

This is coming from a guy that never watched a Live Vikings game in person. Dude you do know they don't show everything on TV right? There are times the TV station won't show the times he gave up on a play but if you are in a game you will see the times he did.

 

[Russ Smith]

Hey I explained the Moss thing. Moss's comments were taken out of context. He was asked do you need Carter to make you play hard. He was insulted he ALWAYS plays hard. So he replied I play hard when I want to. That was taken out of context. I have seen every Moss game played several time and he always plays hard. I have never seen him take a play off ever. Last year for example he became the 1st play in NFL HISTORY to average 1 td and 100 yards a game.

We agreed to disagree on that.

You still haven't produced even a hint of a quote from Favre saying it was drugs and alcohol that made him win a Superbowl.

Yesterday you were saying after he quit, his numbers fell off proving your point, last night I proved that wrong by pointing out that he won the MVP in 95, went into rehab for 45 days, got sober, and then went out and won the MVP AGAIN in 96 while sober. Oddly you haven't bothered to respond to that with more "facts" that prove that it was his reliance on drugs and alcohol that won a superbowl, nor have you even tried to explain how said addictions supposedly helped him be a better player, you just keep saying ask Favre he said it, without ever actually attempting to prove he said it. Favre's dropoff is a combination of age and a coaching change, he's been sober for years so the recent drop in play is not tied to that as you keep suggesting.

FWIW Favre is not a saint, he correctly was blasted a few years back when he petitioned the NFL to allow him to start drinking again, he said I am not and never was an alcoholic, I've been to rehab for vicodin, and i should be allowed to drink a beer if I want to.

The problem was it sent a horrible message, that I can "handle" it, that I didn't really have a problem with drinking just the pills, and I'm a big boy and despite my doctor saying I should NOT drink, I want to. And the media actually did rip him for this, basically Favre was tired of random tests for alcohol when he felt he was never an alcoholic, tough beans the NFL drug policy is specific, alcohol was on the list he wasn't allowed to use, he has to deal with that. A lot of alcoholics don't think they have a problem and when you are in treatment with a doctor and he says you had a problem, you should listen to him.

And FWIW when Favre laid down for Strahan I ripped him on this board, really ticked me off he gave a guy a record.

But I'll be damned if I ever heard or saw Favre come out and say that it was the drugs and drinking that allowed him to win the Superbowl. And to say he's overrated because you just don't like him is silly, he's a first ballot hall of fame player.

 

[Russ Smith]

No I wouldn't I would be saying Favre needs to listen to DG. DG would have changed Favre so that he wouldn't have given the game away like he did in PHI last year. DG wouldn't put up with Favre's selfish moron-ness.

Yep apparently DG is HIGHLY critical of Favre.

"The Packers don't quite have the same receiver corps they had when they were going to the Super Bowl," says Dennis Green, an ESPN analyst and former Minnesota coach. "They have to win a lot of close games because they don't overpower people, but then it comes down to him. He's the best in the game."


That was about Favre in a 2003 article in the SPorting News http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_36_227/ai_107397310

In another article Green commented on why taking Culpepper was a good pick by basically saying a great QB can elevate a team more than a player at any other position, he then went on to point out how Brett Favre had done so with the Packers for years.

Sure sounds to me like DG would try to completely change Favre if he coached him.

 

[vikesfan]

We agreed to disagree on that.

You still haven't produced even a hint of a quote from Favre saying it was drugs and alcohol that made him win a Superbowl.

Yesterday you were saying after he quit, his numbers fell off proving your point, last night I proved that wrong by pointing out that he won the MVP in 95, went into rehab for 45 days, got sober, and then went out and won the MVP AGAIN in 96 while sober. Oddly you haven't bothered to respond to that with more "facts" that prove that it was his reliance on drugs and alcohol that won a superbowl, nor have you even tried to explain how said addictions supposedly helped him be a better player, you just keep saying ask Favre he said it, without ever actually attempting to prove he said it. Favre's dropoff is a combination of age and a coaching change, he's been sober for years so the recent drop in play is not tied to that as you keep suggesting.

FWIW Favre is not a saint, he correctly was blasted a few years back when he petitioned the NFL to allow him to start drinking again, he said I am not and never was an alcoholic, I've been to rehab for vicodin, and i should be allowed to drink a beer if I want to.

The problem was it sent a horrible message, that I can "handle" it, that I didn't really have a problem with drinking just the pills, and I'm a big boy and despite my doctor saying I should NOT drink, I want to. And the media actually did rip him for this, basically Favre was tired of random tests for alcohol when he felt he was never an alcoholic, tough beans the NFL drug policy is specific, alcohol was on the list he wasn't allowed to use, he has to deal with that. A lot of alcoholics don't think they have a problem and when you are in treatment with a doctor and he says you had a problem, you should listen to him.

And FWIW when Favre laid down for Strahan I ripped him on this board, really ticked me off he gave a guy a record.

But I'll be damned if I ever heard or saw Favre come out and say that it was the drugs and drinking that allowed him to win the Superbowl. And to say he's overrated because you just don't like him is silly, he's a first ballot hall of fame player.

He should not be allowed to be in the HOF because of the Strahan incident. That was the greatest dishonour the game of football has ever seen.

 

[Russ Smith]

He should not be allowed to be in the HOF because of the Strahan incident. That was the greatest dishonour the game of football has ever seen.

It bugged me but I wouldn't call it the greatest dishonor the game has ever seen.

It's not like the sack record has a lot of "value" it's a relatively new stat and most admit that Deacon Jones regularly had more sacks in the old days but nobody kept count officially.

It's not like it was a hallowed record, not like he underhanded a pitch to Barry Bonds so he could hit #756 or something. It was dumb, he likes Strahan and wanted to see him get the record, shouldn't have done it, but it didn't impact the outcome. We actually agree on why it was wrong, his OL busted their butts all game to protect him he did them a disservice by laying down like that.

I took similar offense a few years ago in women's college hoops when they let some injured UCONN player make an uncontested layup so she could set a career scoring record. They let the other team score too so it had no impact on the outcome but it was a travesty, the girl who had the record before had no such luxury of being given points, why should she?

My comment to you is if that's your gripe with Favre, at least come out and admit and move on, don't sit there and attack his level of play and all the other stuff just come out and say that play bothered me.

 

[vikesfan]

Favre being a great player is a media creation just like Moss being a lazy hood.

 

[Russ Smith]

Favre being a great player is a media creation just like Moss being a lazy hood.

And DG was part of that media just a year ago calling him the best QB in the game!

Quite the conundrum.

 

[AZCB34]

And DG was part of that media just a year ago calling him the best QB in the game!

Quite the conundrum.

Quit using common sense Russ. You are shooting apart his Favre hatred too easily.

I would take a QB who piloted his team to win 66% of their victories over the past decade plus any day of the week. Sounds like a real moron...yet VF proves to be the moron by continuing to pursue this nonsense.

VF, any time you are ready to leave again, feel free. I will help you pack. You are worse than a bandwagon fan. This thread is a joke with your Favre blindness and hatred.

 

[vikesfan]

And DG was part of that media just a year ago calling him the best QB in the game!

Quite the conundrum.

DG makes mistakes.

 

[This_Guy]

Favre being a great player is a media creation just like Moss being a lazy hood.

I'm all for everyone having their own take, but this is the most absurd statement I've ever read on a internet board.

That is all.

 

[vikesfan]

FATHER: Irvin Favre. As a high school football coach, he helped Southern Miss violate NCAA rules to recruit his son.

BROTHER: Scott. Killed a family friend when he drove his car into a railroad crossing and got hit by a train. Jailed for DUI.

SISTER: Brandi. A Mississippi beauty queen, arrested for shoplifting.

FAVRE: In 1992, Favre was arrested after a barroom brawl in Hattiesburg, Miss., that began when he was arguing with the future Mrs. Favre. A bystander tried to intervene, and soon Favre was wrestling him to the floor. Favre was charged with drunkenness, disorderly conduct, and profanity.
Favre was a substance abuser in the mid-1990s. In 1996, he announced he was addicted to Vicodin, a prescription pain-killer. The NFL sent him to the Menninger Clinic in Topeka, Kan., to dry out. Favre now says he's sober.
(He lobbied to be able to continue drinking.)

"The biggest problem wasn't getting the pills down, it was keeping them down. I'd go into the bathroom, take a big slug of water, and try swallowing a handful of pills. Most of the time, I'd just throw them right back up and they'd land on the floor. No big deal. I'd just pick the pills out of the vomit, rinse them off, and try again."
- From "Vicodin, Rehab and Beer. Hey, It Won Me a Super Bowl," an excerpt from Favre's 1998 autobiography, "Favre: For The Record," published in Esquire magazine.

During his Vicodin addiction, Favre went into a seizure in front of his 7-year-old daughter. While watching her dad convulsing, the child screamed, "Is my daddy going to die? Is my daddy going to die?"


Favre was sprung from rehab after lying to his counselors. In his autobiography, he brags:
"Finally, I told them what they wanted to hear: that I was a drug addict and I needed help. Sure enough, a week later they said, 'We think you're ready to leave.'
"...Then I walked out the door and was like, 'Screw you.' "

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm all for everyone having their own take, but this is the most absurd statement I've ever read on a internet board.

That is all.

I don't know they can do amazing things with special effects these days it IS possible that wasn't really Favre doing all those great things.

 

[vikesfan]

I don't consider a player who uses drugs and alcohol to be great. Because he never duplicated those great numbers again like in his booze and drug years.