Couple of thoughts about the "run"

[Russ Smith]

I re-watched the game last night and something occurred to me that I'm curious if it's true or not.

Recall at times this season that we were told by Siragusa and other announcers that teams knew when we were running or not? Siragusa said they not only knew run or pass, they knew which side we were running to and were calling out shift left or shift right before the play because they knew this.

I'm wondering if one of the reasons the Cards suddenly are able to run the ball and look so good on offense now is as simple as they studied a lot of film prior to Atlanta and figured out what exactly it was that other teams were keying on to pick that up?

In other words was the "slump" on offense due largely to teams knowing what was coming, and once we figured out the "tell" and stopped it, teams no longer know what's coming and can't defend us?

 

[RedViper]

I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. I'd also add that we seemed to have picked up on some kind of tell that the Falcons were showing. Maybe when we figured out what fatal flaw we were showing, it helped us to pick up something similar in the opponent.

 

[82CardsGrad]

There is never ONE single event that creates this sort of change Russ...

I have no doubt that teams are no longer able to guess when we are running. However, I also believe that a host of other factors have also contributed to our improved (still average at best) run game..., such as:

- Better play-calling, leveraging our passing game to help the run
- Improved play of our line
- Edge being rested and angry

All that said, I still think our run game blows and against the Steelers, we are going to be challenged like never before. They simply don't allow ANY teams to run. It would be a major miracle should the Cards somehow scratch out any semblance of a rushing attack in Tampa...

 

[SuperSpck]

All that said, I still think our run game blows and against the Steelers, we are going to be challenged like never before. They simply don't allow ANY teams to run. It would be a major miracle should the Cards somehow scratch out any semblance of a rushing attack in Tampa...

Rushing success is a fluid term though. For teams like Baltimore (or even ATL, or CAR) success is over 100 yards a game or a high 4 yard average.

For the Cardinals perhaps success can be defined as near-100 yards or a 3 yard average.

It doesn't have to be great, it doesn't even have to be good, the rushing game can just dance merrily on the precipice of good.

What it needs to do is get 8 men to line up in the box occasionally, and open up opportunities for the play-action pass and draw.

Sometimes, barely good enough can turn out to be great. I think the Cardinals can make it work for them.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Rushing success is a fluid term though. For teams like Baltimore (or even ATL, or CAR) success is over 100 yards a game or a high 4 yard average.

For the Cardinals perhaps success can be defined as near-100 yards or a 3 yard average.

It doesn't have to be great, it doesn't even have to be good, the rushing game can just dance merrily on the precipice of good.

What it needs to do is get 8 men to line up in the box occasionally, and open up opportunities for the play-action pass and draw.

Sometimes, barely good enough can turn out to be great. I think the Cardinals can make it work for them.

Good point... I think for the most part you are right... Against the Steelers, I'm not sold...

 

[bg7brd]

Having an early lead helps quite a bit too.

 

[SuperSpck]

Good point... I think for the most part you are right... Against the Steelers, I'm not sold...

I'm not disagreeing with the notion that the team is in trouble if the Steelers completely shut down the game (1 to - yard avg), it'd be a nightmare.

Cool enough, we're talking about this as Sando's typing it I guess, check it out:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest

Kurt Warner and the Cardinals keep shredding opponents on play-action passes, which is natural when teams must account for Arizona's running game.


Warner completed all four play-action attempts against the Eagles if we count that 62-yard fleaflicker touchdown strike to Larry Fitzgerald.
The Cardinals' play-action numbers were also strong against the Falcons and Panthers earlier in the playoffs.


Edgerrin James and Tim Hightower have combined for 335 yards rushing in three playoff games. Their per-carry average is an underwhelming 3.9 yards, but that number isn't crucial for a team with big-play ability in the passing game.



Total rushing attempts matter at least as much; James and Hightower have combined for 86 in the playoffs.
Arizona ran the ball on a season-high 58.8 percent (10 of 17) of its first-down plays in the first half. The Cardinals averaged 6.6 yards per carry on these plays, with runs of 12, 16 and 22 yards. Arizona would certainly take that type of production in Super Bowl XLIII.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I'm not disagreeing with the notion that the team is in trouble if the Steelers completely shut down the game (1 to - yard avg), it'd be a nightmare.

Cool enough, we're talking about this as Sando's typing it I guess, check it out:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest

Great minds!!!

 

[Russ Smith]

The other surprise to me watching the game again is we were not in the shotgun near as much in the first half as I thought we were. I really thought we changed that at the half and went far less gun 2nd half but not really true.

We ran a lot from under C in the first half too, lots of passes and runs and again we had the problem of Warner getting stepped on because he's apparently too slow getting back. In fact one of our best runs Kurt was falling over when he handed it to Edge.

So I take back the comment about abandoning the shotgun hurt us in the 2nd half it's not really true.

I do think we'll see more gun against Pitt. I also think that 2 TE 2 RB formation we used so much on the last drive will be in play too. It sucks because it has Boldin on the sideline yelling at Haley, but it was instrumental on that last drive, Philly didn't know who to cover on pass plays and we were able to run block from that formation.

 

[SECTION 11]

The biggest difference this season has been Warner pre-Just For Men, and Warner post-Just For Men. Dude's been on fire since he lost the gray.

Don't know if that helps with the shotgun discussion or not...

 

[Cards232]

Actually, to further butress that point, I read where on the flea flicker to Fitz in the last game, they were in a formation where they had run something like 34 out of the last 35 times. Haley knew that & felt that the pitch to Arrington would key the defense & leave Fitz one on one. If nothing else, it sure worked for that play.

 

[Russ Smith]

Actually, to further butress that point, I read where on the flea flicker to Fitz in the last game, they were in a formation where they had run something like 34 out of the last 35 times. Haley knew that & felt that the pitch to Arrington would key the defense & leave Fitz one on one. If nothing else, it sure worked for that play.

Aikman said during the game that play only worked because Philly really bought that it was a run play. It was interesting because generally when JJ is in, I think pass. But Philly clearly thought that was a run and probably for the reason you mentioned.

In one drive before halftime Warner had JJ in the left flat, faked a screen to him, the whole defense got sucked that way, and he then hit Pope on the other side for a screen with blocking out in front. It worked perfectly, the one problem was that Pope managed to run into the one defender who was in position to make any play, if he didn't do that he might have gotten another 20 yards on that play. JJ was apparently being used as a decoy like they had these formations where the tendence is A, but we did B and totally fooled Philly.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Aikman said during the game that play only worked because Philly really bought that it was a run play. It was interesting because generally when JJ is in, I think pass. But Philly clearly thought that was a run and probably for the reason you mentioned.

In one drive before halftime Warner had JJ in the left flat, faked a screen to him, the whole defense got sucked that way, and he then hit Pope on the other side for a screen with blocking out in front. It worked perfectly, the one problem was that Pope managed to run into the one defender who was in position to make any play, if he didn't do that he might have gotten another 20 yards on that play. JJ was apparently being used as a decoy like they had these formations where the tendence is A, but we did B and totally fooled Philly.

Yea... the winning screen was actually a fake screen to Q, and then the throw to Hightower... Love that stuff!!

 

[Pi Kapp Steeler]

I think the ace in the hole for you guys is going to be Edge. He might have some unfinished business from the Colts game awhile back.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yea... the winning screen was actually a fake screen to Q, and then the throw to Hightower... Love that stuff!!

Yes, and fortunately for us, Hightower didn't do what Pope did and go down when he ran into the one defender who had a chance. Tim sort of ran into the one guy too, the difference is TRUCKED the guy and powered in where Pope went down.

I will never get tired of watching that play, can you imagine if he'd not gotten in and we had to count on Rackers making a FG to take the lead and then hold Philly off?

If Hightower never gains another yard in his NFL career I will never forget those 2 plays the 4th down conversion and the game winning TD.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Yes, and fortunately for us, Hightower didn't do what Pope did and go down when he ran into the one defender who had a chance. Tim sort of ran into the one guy too, the difference is TRUCKED the guy and powered in where Pope went down.

I will never get tired of watching that play, can you imagine if he'd not gotten in and we had to count on Rackers making a FG to take the lead and then hold Philly off?

If Hightower never gains another yard in his NFL career I will never forget those 2 plays the 4th down conversion and the game winning TD.

Incredible performances and experiences for a 5th round rookie!!! Amazing!!!!

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[DoTheDew]

The other surprise to me watching the game again is we were not in the shotgun near as much in the first half as I thought we were. I really thought we changed that at the half and went far less gun 2nd half but not really true.

We ran a lot from under C in the first half too, lots of passes and runs and again we had the problem of Warner getting stepped on because he's apparently too slow getting back. In fact one of our best runs Kurt was falling over when he handed it to Edge.

I would argue the reasons teams don't know whether we are running or passing as well is because we pass more from under center. During the season, especially during our bad stretch at the end, we only passed out of shotgun, and our few runs were draws which Warner is terrible at selling (no offense to Warner). As for where we are running, I noticed during the season that we almost always brought a man in motion to the side of the run. I haven't noticed whether we still do that or not.

Another reason is the creativity in the play calling. The trick plays have made a difference simply because that is another thing defenses have to be aware of. Carolina and Philly weren't ready for it and we scored a TD both times as a result. Pitt will be ready for it I believe, which is why I don't think we actually use it. We might use a different trick play but we won't do another flea flicker style play IMO.

 

[Russ Smith]

I would argue the reasons teams don't know whether we are running or passing as well is because we pass more from under center. During the season, especially during our bad stretch at the end, we only passed out of shotgun, and our few runs were draws which Warner is terrible at selling (no offense to Warner). As for where we are running, I noticed during the season that we almost always brought a man in motion to the side of the run. I haven't noticed whether we still do that or not.

Another reason is the creativity in the play calling. The trick plays have made a difference simply because that is another thing defenses have to be aware of. Carolina and Philly weren't ready for it and we scored a TD both times as a result. Pitt will be ready for it I believe, which is why I don't think we actually use it. We might use a different trick play but we won't do another flea flicker style play IMO.

On the motion thing. I forget exactly when but on one play Boldin goes in motion left to right, turns up essentially between the guard and tackle on the snap and the play is a run directly behind Boldin. I guess the idea is get the defense sliding to their left(our right) and then run behind them with Boldin as a blocker but the result was exactly what you said. Boldin literally took the defense to the direction of the run and they stuffed it for a 1 yard loss.

Really weird play you don't see teams use a WR as a lead blocker on an inside run very often.

 

[conraddobler]

It might just be my imagination but here's what I think has happened.

1. Yes I think we had a tell and I think we've neutralized it to some extent.

2. The play calling has improved in terms of running less predictably and from other formations.

3. Hightower runs slightly different now, he's slightly more in control than he was, he hesitates just slightly now instead of looking like some windup toy you just set on the ground. I think this is DIRECTLY resultant from starting, failing then playing again and while failing really for the first time paying attention to how a veteran runner runs and copying it just a little.