Curry Traded To New York

[Dustbuster]

actually the contract is a 6 year, 60 million deal

Not possible. Five years is the maximum in any case, and he can't get close to $10 million starting salary unless reports of the players involved are incorrect.

Elindholm, remember that this is a sign and trade. A maximum extension is only five years, as is the maximum contract another team can give to a FA that is not their own. But this is a fresh contract, and thus is eligible for six years (it was seven in the last CBA). It is a six year contract because it is a sign and trade.

Most reports have the deal at 55-60+ million over six years. Once again, NY has found a way for their financial hell to extend much longer. Between Curry and James they are looking at 90 mil+ worth of underachieving centers who have effectively knocked their "center of the future" (Frye) right out of the equation.

NY has been drafting pretty well, but they have such a bloated roster that they are incapable of developing the players that they draft.

 

[Neo]

This is kind of a morbid question, but one that is appropriate given the situation.

How does a dead player's salary count against the cap? If Curry falls over dead, does that create cap space? If he ends up having problems, can anyone else see Isiah jumping out of closets and yelling "Boo!!" trying to give Curry a heart attack and thereby create financial flexibility?

 

[elindholm]

Elindholm, remember that this is a sign and trade. A maximum extension is only five years, as is the maximum contract another team can give to a FA that is not their own. But this is a fresh contract, and thus is eligible for six years (it was seven in the last CBA). It is a six year contract because it is a sign and trade.

I'm 95% sure the new contract lengths are five years with the old team (which would include a sign-and-trade) and four years with a new team. For example, both Stoudemire's and Yao's extensions are for five years, not six.

Most reports have the deal at 55-60+ million over six years.

Can you post a link to any such report since the trade actually went down? The speculation was that the Knicks would find a way to offer Curry that kind of money, but now that we see the players involved, the numbers don't add up.

 

[elindholm]

Based on my calculations the max. starting salary what Curry can get after this sign-and-trade is 7.2 mil.

What salary figure are you using for Jackson?

Hoopshype gives these numbers:

Antonio Davis $13.9 million
Tim Thomas $14.0 million
Mike Sweetney $2.1 million

So Curry's maximum starting salary, in millions, is given by

Curry = (2.2 + Jackson + (0.25*(15.1 + Jackson)) + 0.1

Put Jackson at 120% of last year's minimum salary, which is about $900,000, and you get ... uh ... $7.2 million. Which is what you just said.

I guess I know where you got your numbers.

 

[elindholm]

How does a dead player's salary count against the cap? If Curry falls over dead, does that create cap space?

They can wipe his salary off the books within a couple of years, depending on the timing of the death.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#56

 

[elindholm]

Since Curry would have the opportunity to find out what his DNA would reveal without having to pass that revelation on to the Bulls, he would be a fool not to take the test with a private doctor/lab first. If his DNA shows what he hoped, then he has no reason to not take the test. If his DNA shows what the Bulls fear, then he has a huge incentive not to take the test.

The polygraph example was merely an example which I occasionally encounter.

Another famous example of getting ambushed by a poor test result is when Christopher Darden challenged O. J. Simpson to try on the bloody gloves. It was a howling blunder to stage that scene without knowing whether the gloves would fit.

 

[baltimorer]

This was bought up when the Celtics traded payton last year. He was waived and the Celtics signed him again.
I thought I read where this could not happen anymore?

New rule, part of the new CBA?

It's a different situation. I kind of don't remember what happened with Payton, but what you guys are thinking about was the problem that occurred with Jim Jackson, and somewhat with Alonzo Mourning. When JJ was traded from Houston to the Hornets, JJ refused to report to New Orleans because he didn't want to play there. So, the Hornets had no choice but to trade or release him. They had to accept crap players in return - the likes of Casey Jacobson, the NBA's first sharp shooter who can't shoot, and other crap - because they had no other option. This is what the new CBA makes much more difficult. I think now the player gets huge fines if he refuses to report and won't play for a team that he is traded to.

That is different than this situation with the Bulls and Knicks. I'm not sure what the specifics of the deal are, if the Knicks really did make the trade with the stipulation that they'd release Antonio Davis so he could go back to Chicago, but the simple fact remains that a team is always allowed to cut a player from its roster. This isn't Antonio Davis saying, "I'm not playing for the Knicks cause they're pathetic." It's New York saying, "We just traded for a player to make the salary cap stuff work out, and now we're going to eat his contract because we don't want him." Likewise, Chicago is saying, "We needed to include Antonio because it made the deal work, but we don't want to give up that much for Tim Thomas and Michael Sweet-eater (er, I mean Sweetney.)" It would also help Chicago because now New York has to worry about Davis' bloated contract, whereas the Bulls will probably be able to sign him for the veteran minimum.

In effect, the new rule restricts the player, not the organization. A player is no longer allowed to refuse to play for a team if he, and his contract, is traded there. The team still reserves the right to release any player it has under contract.

 

[sunsfn]

It's a different situation. I kind of don't remember what happened with Payton, but what you guys are thinking about was the problem that occurred with Jim Jackson, and somewhat with Alonzo Mourning. When JJ was traded from Houston to the Hornets, JJ refused to report to New Orleans because he didn't want to play there. So, the Hornets had no choice but to trade or release him. They had to accept crap players in return - the likes of Casey Jacobson, the NBA's first sharp shooter who can't shoot, and other crap - because they had no other option. This is what the new CBA makes much more difficult. I think now the player gets huge fines if he refuses to report and won't play for a team that he is traded to.

That is different than this situation with the Bulls and Knicks. I'm not sure what the specifics of the deal are, if the Knicks really did make the trade with the stipulation that they'd release Antonio Davis so he could go back to Chicago, but the simple fact remains that a team is always allowed to cut a player from its roster. This isn't Antonio Davis saying, "I'm not playing for the Knicks cause they're pathetic." It's New York saying, "We just traded for a player to make the salary cap stuff work out, and now we're going to eat his contract because we don't want him." Likewise, Chicago is saying, "We needed to include Antonio because it made the deal work, but we don't want to give up that much for Tim Thomas and Michael Sweet-eater (er, I mean Sweetney.)" It would also help Chicago because now New York has to worry about Davis' bloated contract, whereas the Bulls will probably be able to sign him for the veteran minimum.

In effect, the new rule restricts the player, not the organization. A player is no longer allowed to refuse to play for a team if he, and his contract, is traded there. The team still reserves the right to release any player it has under contract.

I think you are missing the point.
payton did not refuse to report. He reported and was waived and then resigned by the Celtics.

If JJackson were traded to day to a team he did not want to go to, he could do the same thing he did before. That is his right. He did not get paid during that time. Maybe they now add some kind of penalty, but that will not stop a player from doing that.

This trade is the same thing that happened with payton, and I thought it could not happen anymore. That is, trade, waived, and then resigned by the same team that traded him.

The problem is not the trade or the waiving............it is the resigning by the team that traded him!

 

[baltimorer]

I think you are missing the point.
payton did not refuse to report. He reported and was waived and then resigned by the Celtics.

If JJackson were traded to day to a team he did not want to go to, he could do the same thing he did before. That is his right. He did not get paid during that time. Maybe they now add some kind of penalty, but that will not stop a player from doing that.

This trade is the same thing that happened with payton, and I thought it could not happen anymore. That is, trade, waived, and then resigned by the same team that traded him.

The problem is not the trade or the waiving............it is the resigning by the team that traded him!

I'm not missing the point. You say that the problem is not the trade or waiving but the resigning by the team that traded him. That wouldn't make any sense. That would mean that, after a team trades a player, that team isn't allowed to ever sign him again? Or before a certain period of time? So, if the Heat traded Shaquille O'neal, and the team that traded for Shaq decided Shaq was too annoying and fat, so they waived him, the Heat wouldn't be allowed to resign Shaq? How would that make sense? Twenty-eight other teams around the league can sign him, but not the Heat because they traded him...? There would be no logic there.

The new rule in the CBA was made to correct a problem. If a player is on the market, he's on the market. Once he clears waivers, he's a free agent, and the NBA wouldn't make a rule that said one team wasn't allowed to sign a free agent because of past dealings with that player. However, the Jim Jackson and Alonzo Mourning situations were both problems, because the Hawks and Raptors both traded for players they thought would be valuable to their teams, and players decided the teams weren't worthy of their employment. Now, the players still reserve the right to refuse to play for a team, but the penalties for such action are now more severe to act as a deterance for such a refusal.

If Larry Brown says, "I want Antonio Davis to start at the power forward position," and Antonio Davis says, "Wait, you're not Scott Skiles.. this is not the United Center.. screw this, I'm playing for the Bulls!" then the new rule would punish him for that. But if the Knicks released Davis, it would make no sense to exclude the Chicago Bulls from being allowed to make him a contract offer.

 

[Dustbuster]

Elindholm, remember that this is a sign and trade. A maximum extension is only five years, as is the maximum contract another team can give to a FA that is not their own. But this is a fresh contract, and thus is eligible for six years (it was seven in the last CBA). It is a six year contract because it is a sign and trade.

I'm 95% sure the new contract lengths are five years with the old team (which would include a sign-and-trade) and four years with a new team. For example, both Stoudemire's and Yao's extensions are for five years, not six.

Most reports have the deal at 55-60+ million over six years.

Can you post a link to any such report since the trade actually went down? The speculation was that the Knicks would find a way to offer Curry that kind of money, but now that we see the players involved, the numbers don't add up.

Elindholm, teams can definitely sign their own players to six year contracts. See Michael Redd's new contract, for example.

http://www.journaltimes.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=1819&catid=43

We could have, for example, signed JJ to a six year contract. Samuel Dalembert signed a six year, 60 million contract with his team.

As to the total of the contract, take a look at this:

"Heart-wrenching
Paxson torn sending center to Knicks, but did 'right thing'
By Marlen Garcia
Tribune staff reporter

October 3, 2005, 11:49 PM CDT

Eddy Curry and the Bulls dodged what promised to be an ugly standoff over his heart condition and DNA testing Monday when they agreed to a sign-and-trade deal that will send Curry and Bulls teammate Antonio Davis to the Knicks.

The deal gives Curry the six-year contract for at least $60 million he had sought after playing four seasons for the Bulls. He also has an opt-out clause after the fourth season.

Sources say the Bulls will get Michael Sweetney, Tim Thomas and Jermaine Jackson, whom the Knicks re-signed Monday. Curry could make up to $10 million in his first year—nearly double the amount of the Bulls' qualifying offer.

New York also will include a first-round draft pick and two second round picks as well. The deal still was being finalized late Monday night.

"This [situation] has been about as uncomfortable and unusual as I ever could have imagined regarding Eddy Curry," Bulls general manager John Paxson said. "We've attempted from Day 1 to do the right thing. I'm absolutely confident that we have. In a lot of ways we met resistance in trying to gather all the information we feel we need to make an informed decision.

"Because of that and because of all the things that this could mean to our team … this evening I've agreed to let Eddy go and trade him to New York."

Paxson gave his statement, clearly anguished and bordering on angry, and left the team's media-day gathering without taking questions. Attempts to reach Curry were unsuccessful.

Curry still must pass a physical exam for New York, which will include a battery of tests outside of a typical physical, one source confirmed.

Curry's agent has said Curry will not be asked to undergo the DNA test an expert in hypertrophic cardiomyopathy recommended last spring.

"It's a bittersweet situation," Curry's agent, Leon Rose, said. "It took a lot of sacrifice by all parties for this to come together. I appreciate that the Bulls did the right thing for Eddy. At the same time we are thankful the Knicks stepped up and have given Eddy an opportunity to start anew."

The Bulls weren't going to play the 6-11 center unless he took the test, even though other prominent cardiologists said Curry's enlarged heart and a benign arrhythmia were not unusual for an athlete of his size. One specialist attributed the arrhythmia to a magnesium deficiency and the ingestion of legal supplements containing high levels of caffeine.

Curry's symptoms had forced him to miss the final 13 games of the regular season plus the playoffs last spring. Several examinations and tests followed, but Curry and the Bulls were divided on a course of action once the recommendation for genetic testing was given.

If Curry had signed with the Bulls, submitted a DNA sample and tested positive for the heart condition, his career essentially would have ended. In that case, the Bulls were prepared to give him a 50-year annuity that would pay him $400,000 a year.

"I would never put a player on the floor in a Chicago Bulls uniform if I didn't think I had done everything in my power to find out all the information that was available," Paxson said. "And you can debate the genetic test until you're blue in the face, but what I know and what I've been told in the last six months is that test could have helped us determine the best course of action.

"We went so far as to offer Eddy an opportunity to find out—not only find out but live his life comfortably because that's how much we cared about him."

Curry never wavered in his refusal to take the test and both sides were gearing up for an arbitration hearing. The NBA Players Association, fearing a precedent, vowed to back Curry.

The Bulls opted to avoid controversy, not to mention a distraction for the team.

"None of us were really fond of the thought of having a distraction," coach Scott Skiles said. "There was no way of predicting exactly which way it would go."

Curry, the No. 4 pick in the 2001 NBA draft straight from Thornwood High, departs having fulfilled just a fraction of what many believe is All-Star potential. His first three seasons were characterized by losing records and questions about his work ethic.

Last season he made an about-face. He led the team in scoring at 16.1 points per game and ranked fifth in the league with a field-goal percentage of .538.

He leaves with a career scoring average of 11.8 points and 4.9 rebounds per game.

Skiles was demanding of Curry on the court but, like many of the Bulls' players, he gave Curry high marks for his demeanor off the court.

"It may seem like I have an ongoing conflict with Eddy," he said. "Everyone really, really likes Eddy."

Curry's health problems and their effect on his contract negotiations seemingly took a toll on Paxson, who said he was offended by allegations the Bulls were exaggerating the extent of Curry's problems in an effort to diminish his value.

"I have an obligation to this organization and to the people I work with to do the right thing," Paxson said. "And I did the right thing."

[email protected]"

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-051003bulls,1,5266161.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

The wild card was the salary of Jumaine Jackson, who was resigned to make the deal work as it did.

 

[Dustbuster]

See also:

"Isiah stirs in Bulls' Curry

Heart woes follow center

BY FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Bulls center Eddy Curry comes to Knicks in a trade that has Larry Brown's team hoping status as a contender soon may be within reach.
CHARLESTON, S.C. - Eddy Curry has been a 6-11, 285-pound medical risk since the moment his season ended in March due to an irregular heartbeat.

Many questions about Curry's health remain unresolved, but Isiah Thomas was so enamored of his size, age and potential that he couldn't resist adding a player who either will become the Knicks' new franchise center or the worst deal Thomas ever has made.

Thomas' year-long pursuit of Curry ended last night when the Knicks agreed in principle to acquire the 22-year-old from the Bulls in a sign-and-trade for Tim Thomas, Michael Sweetney, Jermaine Jackson and an undisclosed draft pick. In the deal, expected to be completed today, the Knicks also will get veteran power forward Antonio Davis, but it is unclear if Davis will be added to the roster or released.

Curry signed a six-year, $55 million contract with the Knicks following contentious negotiations with the Bulls over the summer. The deal cannot be finalized until Curry passes a battery of tests. The Bulls, who drafted Curry four years ago out of Thornwood HS in suburban Chicago, had insisted that he take a DNA test to determine whether he is susceptible to a potentially fatal heart problem.

Curry declined, saying it violated his privacy. Curry missed the final 13 games of the regular season and was unavailable for the Bulls' first-round playoff series against Washington after experiencing the irregular heartbeat.

Curry, diagnosed with a benign arrhythmia, had been cleared by cardiologists. But Barry Maron, a world-renowned specialist in hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, suggested that Curry take the DNA test.

"I would never put a player on the floor in a Chicago Bulls uniform if I didn't do everything in my power to find out all the information that was available," Bulls GM John Paxson said last night. "You can debate genetic testing till you're blue in the face. But from what I know, from what I've learned over the last six months, that test could have helped us determine the best course of action."

The Bulls' fear was that Curry could have a condition similar to those of Boston Celtics guard Reggie Lewis and Loyola Marymount star Hank Gathers - who both suffered from hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and collapsed and died on the court. Paxson revealed yesterday that the Bulls had offered Curry $400,000 annually for the next 50 years - or $20 million - if he failed the DNA test.

"So he would have an above-average lifestyle that would put him in a position that most other people aren't in," Paxson said. "Our intention through that whole process was to show him that we did care about him and that we were concerned about his well-being."

In four seasons, Curry has averaged 11.8 points and 4.9 rebounds. Last season, he averaged a career-high 16.1 points in 63 games. Despite his girth, he never has averaged more than 6.2 rebounds in a season and has the reputation of being soft defensively. He never was a favorite of Bulls coach Scott Skiles, who - like Larry Brown - wants his big men to rebound and defend.

Skiles also was down on Jamal Crawford as a complete player, which is why the Bulls traded Crawford to the Knicks in the summer of 2004 for four players with expiring contracts. The Bulls made the playoffs last year, while Crawford's first season with the Knicks was a major disappointment.

Curry is a proven scorer who will be the Knicks' best low post threat since Patrick Ewing. The arrival of Curry makes Jerome James the highest-paid backup center in league history. Thomas signed James to a six-year, $30 million contract in July.

Originally published on October 4, 2005"

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/story/352160p-300320c.html

 

[Dustbuster]

And this:

"KNICKS LAND CURRY

By MARC BERMAN
PHOTO HEART OF THE MATTER: The Knicks obtained Eddy Curry from the Bulls last night - but the Chicago superstar, who has an irregular heartbeat, must pass a battery of tests' in the coming days for the deal to go through.
Photo: N.Y. Post: Susan May Tell

Email Archives
Print Reprint

October 4, 2005 -- CHARLESTON — As the Knicks flew to Charleston yesterday for training camp, team president Isiah Thomas stayed behind to land new coach Larry Brown a legitimate, potentially spectacular, new center.

Problem is, Eddy Curry may have a bad heart.

Yesterday, the weeklong stalemate between the Bulls and Knicks got broken hours before the signing deadline.

Thomas made the 6-foot-11, 280-pound free-agent Curry, 22, a Knick, pending an extensive physical. The Knicks also obtained veteran Antonio Davis, whom they're expected to buy out. Davis is likely to land back with the Bulls.

According to sources, Thomas agreed to trade power forward Michael Sweetney, Tim Thomas, a contingent 2006 first-round pick and two second-round picks. (Jermaine Jackson, not invited to training camp, was re-signed by the Knicks yesterday to become a throw-in for cap reasons.

If Curry's heart is sound, the Knicks' playoff chances skyrocket, not needing to rely on unproven center Jerome James.

Isiah Thomas believes Curry is an All-Star in the making, a low-post beast coming off his career year in which he averaged 16.1 points and 5.4 rebounds.

He'll sign a six-year, $60 million deal, though it's doubtful the contract is insurable.

Curry sat out the last 13 games and the playoffs last season with an irregular heartbeat, scaring the Bulls.

Chicago coach Scott Skiles also didn't like Curry's work ethic. The Bulls wanted Curry to take a DNA test and Curry refused, even though they promised him an annuity paying $400,000 for the next 30 years if he failed. Arbitration was in the offing.

The Knicks won't make Curry take the DNA test but the trade is contingent on Curry passing a battery of heart tests across the next two days in Manhattan.

Curry will fly into New York today. The Knicks don't believe a DNA test is necessary. One Bull specialist thought Curry's enlarged heart was consistent with a pro athlete and also said it was unnecessary.

The deal was not announced formally. Isiah Thomas had shopped the underachieving Tim Thomas, and his departure allows Quentin Richardson to slide to SF and open up SG for Jamal Crawford.

The Post reported exclusively Thursday that Isiah Thomas had offered up Sweetney and Thomas in a package for Curry, after which GM John Paxson reacted by calling it "a bizarre proposal."

Paxson wanted Knicks rookie David Lee instead of the picks, but Isiah did not budge. An angry Paxson made a brief statement to Chicago writers last night, saying, "We were tempted from Day 1 to do the right thing. I'm absolutely confident we have. In lot of ways, we met resistance in trying to gather all the information we feel we need to make an informed decision."

Curry's agent, Leon Rose, who pushed for the trade, said, "Eddy's appreciative the Bulls did the right thing, and he's looking forward to getting the Knicks back to where they want to be."

Across the last few weeks, Curry's best friend, Crawford, worked behind the scenes, selling Curry on New York. Curry had lost trust in the Bulls.

With rumors swirling yesterday, Tim Thomas told The Post before making the Charleston flight, "I always wanted to be a Knick. I had an opportunity to be a Knick. If things change, they change. I know the business. It's not like I'm going from the Knicks to Iraq. Sometimes a trade could be good.""

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/28944.htm

 

[elindholm]

Thanks for the links.

Elindholm, teams can definitely sign their own players to six year contracts.

In that case I am at a loss to explain why Yao and Stoudemire signed for only five years each.

 

[elindholm]

You say that the problem is not the trade or waiving but the resigning by the team that traded him. That wouldn't make any sense. That would mean that, after a team trades a player, that team isn't allowed to ever sign him again?

I'm not sure how it works with waived players, but it does in fact work exactly that way with trades.

Coon #84: "A team cannot reacquire a player they traded away during that season (a season being July 1 - June 30) unless the player has been waived."

After a player is traded away, yes, 28 teams in the league are allowed to acquire him in another trade, but the original team is not.

This is to close a salary-cap loophole in which a team could, in essence, use a trade exception to re-aquire its own player.

 

[myrondizzo]

Thanks for the links.

Elindholm, teams can definitely sign their own players to six year contracts.

In that case I am at a loss to explain why Yao and Stoudemire signed for only five years each.

they still have 1 year left on there rookie deals. and you can only be under contract for 6yrs.

 

[elindholm]

Okay, fair enough, I stand corrected.

However, it's still true that Curry's contract cannot be for that much money unless the reports of the players involved are wrong.