Dallas @ Suns Game 1 (R2) Monday 5-2-2022, 7 PM

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
34,978
Reaction score
21,080
Location
South Bay
I don't agree with this. he passes, he rebounds, he scores every possible way you could ask a player to score. he's just unique, and that's ok. I remember people used to say Steve Nash and Dirk weren't athletic. give me a break.

One can be un-athletic and good. Barkley was not athletic but he dominated. Nash wasn't. Dirk wasn't. Shaq wasn't. Luka is a great player but he's also not athletic, and that's fine. I never said a disparaging word about him except for that he's chunky and has a punchable face
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,114
Reaction score
6,547
I agree with your take but the referees give Luka tremendous liberties few other player get like traveling and lowering his shoulder into the defender.
Luka and Giannis are alike in that way. They both roll down the lane like a bowling ball, lowering their shoulders, and the refs let them get away with it. If that is going to happen, then you have to make it so such a move takes a toll on their bodies too.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
117,960
Reaction score
58,203
One can be un-athletic and good. Barkley was not athletic but he dominated. Nash wasn't. Dirk wasn't. Shaq wasn't. Luka is a great player but he's also not athletic, and that's fine. I never said a disparaging word about him except for that he's chunky and has a punchable face

Charles Barkley was off the charts athletically.
 

Lorenzo

Registered User
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Posts
10,359
Reaction score
5,271
Location
Vegas
I agree with your take but the referees give Luka tremendous liberties few other player gets like traveling and lowering his shoulder into the defender.
I can see that. he's a physical player and his strength is being able to control his dribble and his pace to keep defenders off balance. changing pace while handling the ball is actually very difficult and does take athletic ability, and he is a big guy. I've noticed the traveling and physical play where it looks like he gets the benefit of the doubt on calls. I've seen calls go against him many times as well.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
117,960
Reaction score
58,203
I can see that. he's a physical player and his strength is being able to control his dribble and his pace to keep defenders off balance. changing pace while handling the ball is actually very difficult and does take athletic ability, and he is a big guy. I've noticed the traveling and physical play where it looks like he gets the benefit of the doubt on calls. I've seen calls go against him many times as well.

Actually I've always been a fan of Luka. I'm only pointing out what the referees let him get away with. I don't deny the talent.
 

Lorenzo

Registered User
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Posts
10,359
Reaction score
5,271
Location
Vegas
Luka and Giannis are alike in that way. They both roll down the lane like a bowling ball, lowering their shoulders, and the refs let them get away with it. If that is going to happen, then you have to make it so such a move takes a toll on their bodies too.
I don't disagree with that, it's just hard in today's NBA to be physical as a defender because flagrant fouls are prevalent, so in a way the rules are catered to offensive players that are aggressive in the lane, as opposed to defenders who try to get physical. I think the Suns approach should be to make Doncic work hard, but also not allow others to get involved offensively by doubling him.
 

Lorenzo

Registered User
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Posts
10,359
Reaction score
5,271
Location
Vegas
Actually I've always been a fan of Luka. I'm only pointing out what the referees let him get away with. I don't deny the talent.
I agree, he is amazing, but he does get away with a lot, I've seen him palm or chest the ball as well many times and it goes uncalled. I just think refs now across the league don't really call traveling and double dribble that much anymore unless it is blatant. Rick Berry went on a rant about that recently, I don't know if he was talking about anyone in particular or just the league as a whole.
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2022
Posts
354
Reaction score
131
Location
Earth
I have given up on hoping Cameron Payne will play better. I assume he just had an outlier year (two?) when he first came to the Suns, and then "regressed to [his] mean." The "real Cameron Payne" is probably this one, not last season's. He's making me think of a player from Suns past who faded out: Gerald Green. He had a huge outlier season in 2013-14, but was eventually tossed aside because he couldn't keep it up.

I have an experiment, though, that I would try if I were the coach: make Payne start, because he tends to have better games when starting for a sick/injured Paul. If successful in wringing more out of Payne, this would kill two birds with one stone by also saving Paul's energy.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
117,960
Reaction score
58,203
Obviously Chris Paul is to small to guard Doncic but he got in Luka's lap defensively.

This is exactly what a defender needs to do with the help of a double team coming. Paul made set a prototype for how to guard Luka.

The way to guard Luka is down low and make him shoot over the top.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,363
Reaction score
68,444
I have given up on hoping Cameron Payne will play better. I assume he just had an outlier year (two?) when he first came to the Suns, and then "regressed to [his] mean." The "real Cameron Payne" is probably this one, not last season's. He's making me think of a player from Suns past who faded out: Gerald Green. He had a huge outlier season in 2013-14, but was eventually tossed aside because he couldn't keep it up.

I have an experiment, though, that I would try if I were the coach: make Payne start, because he tends to have better games when starting for a sick/injured Paul. If successful in wringing more out of Payne, this would kill two birds with one stone by also saving Paul's energy.
Kinda weird timing on this post since Payne had easily his best game of the playoffs last night and was a reason we only needed to play CP3 for 28 minutes.

And I think you’re overthinking with the start Payne experiment. That just doesn’t happen with a HOF PG where you decide to mess with his 18 years of minutes distro and deserved place as a starter.
 

AsUpRoDiGy

Magnanimous
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Posts
6,756
Reaction score
4,981
Location
Phx
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
The Adam Driver doppelganger guy thinking the Mavs will win in 7 is hilarious. Dude obviously didn't even watch the game. And thank you to the reporter who asked CP3 about Doncic... you're going to make damn sure Luka doesn't get any garbage time points now for the rest of the series.
 

Lorenzo

Registered User
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Posts
10,359
Reaction score
5,271
Location
Vegas
One can be un-athletic and good. Barkley was not athletic but he dominated. Nash wasn't. Dirk wasn't. Shaq wasn't. Luka is a great player but he's also not athletic, and that's fine. I never said a disparaging word about him except for that he's chunky and has a punchable face
I see what you mean. I didn't watch a lot of Barkley. I did watch a lot of dirk and Nash. actually heard that same thing a lot with Nash when he was in Dallas. A younger Dirk at 7 feet would go coast to coast handling the ball, stopping and popping for 3's or finishing at the rim. I think people forget that version of him. of corse he changed his game and became more physical after both Nash and Don Nelson left Dallas. Nash was a machine, that's no secret. Some of Nash's play in the paint over bigger guys, both as a finisher and a passer, for a smaller guy was amazing. I still remember the rivalry Dallas and Phoenix had when Nash went to Phoenix, those were some incredible games, which brought me here as I lived in Phoenix back then. and I still think the most exciting Mavericks teams I've ever watched was when Nash and Dirk were together, even though they fell short of winning a title.
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
12,710
Reaction score
10,590
The Adam Driver doppelganger guy thinking the Mavs will win in 7 is hilarious. Dude obviously didn't even watch the game. And thank you to the reporter who asked CP3 about Doncic... you're going to make damn sure Luka doesn't get any garbage time points now for the rest of the series.
This is just unbelievable.

What in the hell gives these morons confidence the mavs will win the series after that game? Barring a major injury to the Suns there is literally no chance the Mavs can win.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,756
Reaction score
16,524
I don't disagree with that, it's just hard in today's NBA to be physical as a defender because flagrant fouls are prevalent, so in a way the rules are catered to offensive players that are aggressive in the lane, as opposed to defenders who try to get physical. I think the Suns approach should be to make Doncic work hard, but also not allow others to get involved offensively by doubling him.
A few years ago I might have agreed it's hard for defenders but not now. Quite the opposite.

The offense gets away with a lot of stuff but going back a couple of years they are now allowing a lot of physical play from the defense too (especially down low). Silver even crowed about it, saying that changes in refereeing have allowed them to play much more physically and they did it because that's what the fans wanted to see.

You're correct that it's much easier to earn a Technical in today's game but that's an attempt to reduce player injury. The league has made it clear. Be physical but don't do it when the player is vulnerable.
 

Lorenzo

Registered User
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Posts
10,359
Reaction score
5,271
Location
Vegas
A few years ago I might have agreed it's hard for defenders but not now. Quite the opposite.

The offense gets away with a lot of stuff but going back a couple of years they are now allowing a lot of physical play from the defense too (especially down low). Silver even crowed about it, saying that changes in refereeing have allowed them to play much more physically and they did it because that's what the fans wanted to see.

You're correct that it's much easier to earn a Technical in today's game but that's an attempt to reduce player injury. The league has made it clear. Be physical but don't do it when the player is vulnerable.
I think you said it best. I don't get to watch as much as I used too, so I'm going off of what little that I have been able to consume lately, which are mostly highlights or a dallas game here and there over the last few years. I missed game 1 of this series, but it sounds like I made the right decision to stay in bed...I thought going into this series it would be the Suns in 6, but from what I'm hearing, in the (non homer) Dallas media, is that it may be the Suns in 5.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
117,960
Reaction score
58,203
A few years ago I might have agreed it's hard for defenders but not now. Quite the opposite.

The offense gets away with a lot of stuff but going back a couple of years they are now allowing a lot of physical play from the defense too (especially down low). Silver even crowed about it, saying that changes in refereeing have allowed them to play much more physically and they did it because that's what the fans wanted to see.

You're correct that it's much easier to earn a Technical in today's game but that's an attempt to reduce player injury. The league has made it clear. Be physical but don't do it when the player is vulnerable.

It's kind of crazy though. Referees let players bludgeon each other on the inside but call ticky tack fouls on the outside.

However, Ayton doesn't seems to be a recipient of the allowance for more physical play inside.
 

mjb21aztd

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Posts
15,993
Reaction score
8,155
Let luka get 40 plus every gm he cant beat suns basically him few other mavs

Was at a family event last n couldnt watch gm so paul was guardin luka? I guess best option to try shut luka down lol

Hope kidd win as hc in poffs but not vs suns :) kidd one of my top 5 players ex sun
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
117,960
Reaction score
58,203
Let luka get 40 plus every gm he cant beat suns basically him few other mavs

Was at a family event last n couldnt watch gm so paul was guardin luka?
Maybe try payne on him?

Hope kidd win as hc in poffs but not vs suns :) kidd one of my top 5 players ex sun

Yeah, Paul did a good job of guarding Luka in regard to denying him position but of course Luka could shoot over the top.

However Paul showed how to do it but Luka is simply too big. The key is defending Luka down low.
 

Chris_Sanders

Not Always The Best Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,163
Reaction score
31,685
Location
Scottsdale, Az
That game getting down within single digits keeping Luka in was the best thing that could’ve happened. He’s going to be cooked by game 3.

He might finally get in basketball shape by the end of the playoffs.
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,675
Reaction score
4,152
Can you imagine an in shape Luka? He’s pretty flabby for a top tier nba player.
 

Latest posts

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
553,597
Posts
5,408,564
Members
6,319
Latest member
route66
Top