Dan Williams Update

[Dayman]

Back to the original topic, Williams has been awesome this year. I couldn't believe the play where he ran down Tannehill in the backfield, forcing Tannehill to throw the ball away as Williams hit him on the sideline. It was a very athletic move for a 327 pounder. His contributions won't show up in the box score very often, but Williams is a big part of this defense. It's great to hear he's seeing the field more.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Williams is one of the "unknown" faces of the success of the defense. Guys such as Vonnie Holliday, William Gay (until Miami game), Jamell Fleming, Walker, and Groves have all kicked butt as the third tier players on this defense.

I see our defensive talent like this:

Tier 1
Washington
Peterson
Calais Campbell

Tier 2
Dockett
Acho
A-Dub
Rhodes
Lenon
Schofield

Tier 3
Dan Williams
Jamell Fleming
Vonnie Holliday
Groves
Carter
William Gay
Toler

What's crazy is the Tier 3 guys would all have been some of the best players on Dave Mac's teams...

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

It is embarrassing right up until he took the pay cut at which point it became a non issue. You still bring it up to get your usual digs in at the organization i'm assuming? Why else do it? Fun? Ummm ok.

It's embarrassing they signed to him that big contract in the first place. So he took a paycut, so what. He DESERVED a pay cut. In fact he deserved to be cut altogether.

It kills me that people want to keep giving this guy a chance and somehow think he's actually going to be a contributor, much less a successfull one. Yet a guy like Wells gets nothing but grief when he's played at a high level and still sees the field more when he's hurt than Bradley does healthy. The sadder thing is (I haven't looked it up to be sure) Bradley's contract and paycut is still more than what Wells has been paid.

 

[Mulli]

It's embarrassing they signed to him that big contract in the first place. So he took a paycut, so what. He DESERVED a pay cut. In fact he deserved to be cut altogether.

It kills me that people want to keep giving this guy a chance and somehow think he's actually going to be a contributor, much less a successfull one. Yet a guy like Wells gets nothing but grief when he's played at a high level and still sees the field more when he's hurt than Bradley does healthy. The sadder thing is (I haven't looked it up to be sure) Bradley's contract and paycut is still more than what Wells has been paid.

Beanie sees the field as much as I do right now.

And neither Bradley nor myself were first round picks. As soon as Beanie starts contributing again, he will get less grief.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

It's embarrassing they signed to him that big contract in the first place. So he took a paycut, so what. He DESERVED a pay cut. In fact he deserved to be cut altogether.

It kills me that people want to keep giving this guy a chance and somehow think he's actually going to be a contributor, much less a successfull one. Yet a guy like Wells gets nothing but grief when he's played at a high level and still sees the field more when he's hurt than Bradley does healthy. The sadder thing is (I haven't looked it up to be sure) Bradley's contract and paycut is still more than what Wells has been paid.

I've seen the same thing written, with the same certainty, on other players who became succesful contributors.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Dude, Reggie Walker backs up Paris Lenon.

+1

Even though "technically" Walker is Washington's backup on paper he is without a doubt the 1st LB in regardless who comes out.

I am befuddled by Stewart Bradley. But the reason I wanted Bradley was to improve the defense. The defense is improved and Bradley is not needed so I am happy.

Sent from Rugbymuffin's Super Phone

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Williams is one of the "unknown" faces of the success of the defense. Guys such as Vonnie Holliday, William Gay (until Miami game), Jamell Fleming, Walker, and Groves have all kicked butt as the third tier players on this defense.

I see our defensive talent like this:

Tier 1
Washington
Peterson
Calais Campbell

Tier 2
Dockett
Acho
A-Dub
Rhodes
Lenon
Schofield

Tier 3
Dan Williams
Jamell Fleming
Vonnie Holliday
Groves
Carter
William Gay
Toler

What's crazy is the Tier 3 guys would all have been some of the best players on Dave Mac's teams...

That Dockett, who takes up double-teams, penetrates, and is viewed by some pundits and the 'baddest" D-lineman in the League... is not Tier 1... is mind boggling (IMO).

 

[Krangodnzr]

That Dockett, who takes up double-teams, penetrates, and is viewed by some pundits and the 'baddest" D-lineman in the League... is not Tier 1... is mind boggling (IMO).

He disappears on the stat sheet for weeks at a time. Still a very good player.

He's not a pro bowler, which is where I slotted Tier 1 guys.

 

[BigRedRage]

He disappears on the stat sheet for weeks at a time. Still a very good player.

He's not a pro bowler, which is where I slotted Tier 1 guys.

He doesnt play a stats position int he defense. Our line play was nowhere near the usual last week vs Miami

 

[Mulli]

He disappears on the stat sheet for weeks at a time. Still a very good player.

He's not a pro bowler, which is where I slotted Tier 1 guys.

Pete Carroll disagrees with you.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

He disappears on the stat sheet for weeks at a time. Still a very good player.

He's not a pro bowler, which is where I slotted Tier 1 guys.

Two of your three have not been to the Pro Bowl, and the other made it as a special team's contributor. Dockett has been to the end of year gathering, and Stats don't tell the whole story. The game against Miami offers ample evidence of the need for his play, and (IMO) Tier 1 status.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Beanie sees the field as much as I do right now.

And neither Bradley nor myself were first round picks. As soon as Beanie starts contributing again, he will get less grief.

and you both see the field as much as a healthy Bradley . I don't think it matter about being a 1st round pick. Even after taking a pay cut, Bradley is making about 4 times as much as Wells and is one of the the top 10 paid players on the team.

 

[Mulli]

and you both see the field as much as a healthy Bradley . I don't think it matter about being a 1st round pick. Even after taking a pay cut, Bradley is making about 4 times as much as Wells and is one of the the top 10 paid players on the team.

Of course you don't think it matter if he was a first round pick.

And Bradley WAS actually in for two plays last week. Want to wager that Bradley plays as much as the bEaN the rest of the year?

Bradley makes 4X as much after his pay cut?

And why is it that Adrian Peterson blows out his knee but still makes it back? Yet Beanie is almost always dinged up. I wish they would hurry up and send Beanie to the guy in Germany already.

 

[JeffGollin]

He disappears on the stat sheet for weeks at a time. Still a very good player.

He's not a pro bowler, which is where I slotted Tier 1 guys.

In Horton's system, one guy may get involved in a lot of the action during one game and see little action during the next (because his role may have changed). One week a lineman is "occupying blockers" and the next week he's "blowing things up in the backfield."

This makes it very difficult to compare our defensive players to those at parallel positions on other teams (because the roles vary so much and so often).

More and more opposing players have identified Nine-Oh as a "high energy" guy who's the "best at his position." That's good enough for me.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Two of your three have not been to the Pro Bowl, and the other made it as a special team's contributor. Dockett has been to the end of year gathering, and Stats don't tell the whole story. The game against Miami offers ample evidence of the need for his play, and (IMO) Tier 1 status.

Maybe so, but I see Dockett as our second best lineman and I don't even think he's in the top five in the NFC West, thus he's Tier 2.

Pro Bowls named don't really matter. It's doubtful that DWash makes it this year and that will be bullcrap because have any ILBs actually been better than DWash?

 

[Mulli]

Maybe so, but I see Dockett as our second best lineman and I don't even think he's in the top five in the NFC West, thus he's Tier 2.

Pro Bowls named don't really matter. It's doubtful that DWash makes it this year and that will be bullcrap because have any ILBs actually been better than DWash?

Not top five in NFC West? This year? Even if SF has two better and you are right about CC over DD, who else is there?

And are you saying CC doesn't disappear in the stat line at times?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Not top five in NFC West? This year? Even if SF has two better and you are right about CC over DD, who else is there?

And are you saying CC doesn't disappear in the stat line at times?

DL in NFC West:
1) Justin Smith
2) Campbell
3) Mebane
4) Long
5) Ray McDonald
6) Dockett

I know they don't all play the same position but all are either capable of playing 3-4 end and are better than Dockett. Dockett is a very good, but not great player.

CC disappearing? Not on the same level and he's also a force on special teams.

 

[Mulli]

DL in NFC West:
1) Justin Smith
2) Campbell
3) Mebane
4) Long
5) Ray McDonald
6) Dockett

I know they don't all play the same position but all are either capable of playing 3-4 end and are better than Dockett. Dockett is a very good, but not great player.

CC disappearing? Not on the same level and he's also a force on special teams.

None of those players under 1 and 2 are great players or better than Dockett. Long? Please.

 

[crisper57]

None of those players under 1 and 2 are great players or better than Dockett. Long? Please.

Agree. You think an opposing coach would ever say this about Long?

“We really hope he heals up next week rather than Thursday,” Rams coach Jeff Fisher said Tuesday regarding Dockett. “He’s a really good player. He’s a good player, obviously, if he plays and he’s healthy. He’s a playmaker. He collapses the pocket and he’s a good run defender.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/03/skelton-fully-participates-in-practice-on-tuesday/

 

[Mulli]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/1739/darnell-dockett

Darnell Dockett is probably the best 3-tech DT that the Seahawks will face all season, as Pete Carroll framed it

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/1739/darnell-docketthttp://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/1739/darnell-dockett

 

[kerouac9]

DL in NFC West:
1) Justin Smith
2) Campbell
3) Mebane
4) Long
5) Ray McDonald
6) Dockett

I know they don't all play the same position but all are either capable of playing 3-4 end and are better than Dockett. Dockett is a very good, but not great player.

CC disappearing? Not on the same level and he's also a force on special teams.

I'd put Dockett in Tier 1, just because he's indispensible for the operation of the defense at peak productivity (Exhibit A: the Miami game where he was out).

That being said, Dockett makes things happen for Campbell on Special Teams. When I watched the coaches' tape for the block against Seattle, it was Dockett clearing the hole (putting two linemen on their bellies) for Campbell to jump into/through.

 

[Mulli]

I'd put Dockett in Tier 1, just because he's indispensible for the operation of the defense at peak productivity (Exhibit A: the Miami game where he was out).

That being said, Dockett makes things happen for Campbell on Special Teams. When I watched the coaches' tape for the block against Seattle, it was Dockett clearing the hole (putting two linemen on their bellies) for Campbell to jump into/through.

 

[Snakester]

Bradley looked really good in pre-season I am surprised that he's not starting.One good thing though, we have great depth with Bradley waiting in the wings.

 

[Chopper0080]

Dockett belongs in the tier 1 because despite lacking ideal measuables and skill sets for a 3-4 DE, he still plays at a high level. Many good players (exp Vilma) get schemed out of a defense and then become a wasted asset. When the Cards switched to a 3-4 Dockett had all the makings of being one of these players, but instead he has worked and adjusted his game to still be a huge contributor.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Maybe so, but I see Dockett as our second best lineman and I don't even think he's in the top five in the NFC West, thus he's Tier 2.

Pro Bowls named don't really matter. It's doubtful that DWash makes it this year and that will be bullcrap because have any ILBs actually been better than DWash?

Well, Warren Sapp, who knows a thing or two about playing D-line in the NFL says DD and Ngata are the two best at their position.