Dansby loss killing this defense

[Stout]

Okay, so I started Hightower instead of McFadden in my fantasy league last week. It didn't work out, but I thought my logic was sound. I was wrong for the very reason that this thread's title posits. Why am I telling you all this? Well, here goes.

Over the past two seasons, we have been on the receiving end of some beat downs, some real big losses. What is it that we've come to count on after our defense gets spanked and we lose big? They come back the next week to have a monster game and go crazy on our opponent's offense (at least early on, before our coach takes his foot off the gas).

So, against the raiders, our defense is going to come out with an attitude, right? Bzzz, wrong-o. We didn't have any stuffing-the-RB-on-every-play type of performance, as we have in the past after a big loss. We didn't have mad pressure on the QB. We had the same bland, passionless defense we've had all year. In fact, we haven't seen that same defense at all this season.

What can the reason be? We had two major defensive losses--Rolle and Dansby. Outside of the fact that you'll never convince me Rolle was an emotional leader on the defense, his position has been more than adequately filled.

Where does that leave us? Missing Dansby like a starving man misses food.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Where does that leave us? Missing Dansby like a starving man misses food.

Huge key for this defense. I don't remember him being a monster on run defense by any means. But the pressure he put on the passing game with his coverage abilty is felt, and felt big time. Not to mention the fact he played all over the field.

We are all over our CB's right now, but they are playing there assignments while our LB's are not getting depth in there drops, not covering well man-man, etc., etc.

Washington has the tools, but like Dansby it will take a few years. At least 2.

 

[Reddog]

I don't disagree on the value off Dansby but I do think Hayes is more of a loss than we think. Lenon has played well but I think Hayes' quiet presence and chemistry with the DL was important.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The defense was very good at times. They spent an excessive amount of time on the field due to muffed punts and shuttle passes.

 

[Shane]

I know I will get flamed for this. But we seemed to man up an be pretty good against the run almost all of 2008 and were rarely gaffed with yards even by the stud RB's we faced. Again we started out awesome against the run last year. Yet as the season went along we got worse and worse.

I don't think it is any coincidence that this occurred with Gerald Hayes playing hurt a few weeks into the season and then hardly playing at all as the season went along.

I truly think that while he wasn't flashy he is definitely undervalued as a player on this team and what he brings to the table.

Yes Dansby would make an occasional flash play across the LOS for a loss. But at the same time I would see him get rolled over a plenty in the running game. IMO Hayes is the biggest loss this defense experienced when it comes to the running game.

Oh yea Bryan Robinson sucking doesn't help either.

 

[Catfish]

Okay, so I started Hightower instead of McFadden in my fantasy league last week. It didn't work out, but I thought my logic was sound. I was wrong for the very reason that this thread's title posits. Why am I telling you all this? Well, here goes.

Over the past two seasons, we have been on the receiving end of some beat downs, some real big losses. What is it that we've come to count on after our defense gets spanked and we lose big? They come back the next week to have a monster game and go crazy on our opponent's offense (at least early on, before our coach takes his foot off the gas).

So, against the raiders, our defense is going to come out with an attitude, right? Bzzz, wrong-o. We didn't have any stuffing-the-RB-on-every-play type of performance, as we have in the past after a big loss. We didn't have mad pressure on the QB. We had the same bland, passionless defense we've had all year. In fact, we haven't seen that same defense at all this season.

What can the reason be? We had two major defensive losses--Rolle and Dansby. Outside of the fact that you'll never convince me Rolle was an emotional leader on the defense, his position has been more than adequately filled.

Where does that leave us? Missing Dansby like a starving man misses food.

Stout-----I have to disagree with your assessment. The reason that I see for our inability to stop the run and get off the field is that we are still trying to play Bryan Robinson at the nose. He is failing to stuff anybody at the line, or to even occupy a single blocker, (let alone a double team). Therefore we have had huge holes up the middle of our defense, AND our linebackers have to wade through so much trash that they lose their effectiveness. I know the Dan Williams gets winded easily, but we are not even suiting up Gabe Watson. We should be starting him and relieving with Williams, instead of starting Robinson. That would go far toward settling our defense.

 

[Pariah]

If we're pointing at LB deficiencies, I think we miss a healthy Hayes more than Dansby at this point.

 

[CardLogic]

I know I will get flamed for this.

I don't think it is any coincidence that this occurred with Gerald Hayes playing hurt a few weeks into the season and then hardly playing at all as the season went along.

I truly think that while he wasn't flashy he is definitely undervalued as a player on this team and what he brings to the table.

Oh yea Bryan Robinson sucking doesn't help either.

Why would you get flamed, your assessment is correct.

While there is no question that Dansby provided leadership to the D, and some occasional great play, it was Gerald Hayes at SILB that was the backbone of the run stopping defense.

I hope that Hayes comes back strong and healthy, but it is doubtful that he will ever be as effective as he had been.

 

[Shane]

Why would you get flamed, your assesment is correct.

While there is no question that Dansby provided leadership to the D, and some occasional great play, it was Gerald Hayes at SILB that was the backbone of the run stopping defense.

I hope that Hayes comes back strong and healthy, but it is doubtful that he will ever be as effective as he had been.

Because you have guys like Cheesy and k9 that would always make some comment about where is Gerald Hayes etc.. over the years.

He would catch flack around here many times that I felt was completely unwarranted.

 

[CardLogic]

Stout-----I have to disagree with your assessment. The reason that I see for our inability to stop the run and get off the field is that we are still trying to play Bryan Robinson at the nose. He is failing to stuff anybody at the line, or to even occupy a single blocker, (let alone a double team). Therefore we have had huge holes up the middle of our defense, AND our linebackers have to wade through so much trash that they lose their effectiveness. I know the Dan Williams gets winded easily, but we are not even suiting up Gabe Watson. We should be starting him and relieving with Williams, instead of starting Robinson. That would go far toward settling our defense.

Another strong point, B-Rob's play has declined. I don't understand the situation with Watson being inactive? It's one of a number of curious personnel decisions made this season...

 

[Cardiac]

Good points by Shane and I agree with Pariah.

I also think we do miss Dansby more then some think.

B Rob is B Rob who is B Rob. Never was stout against the run and I don't believe he got dramatically worse in one year.

I agree D Williams is needs to be on the field more and I don't understand why Gabe isn't getting some snaps as well.

 

[Shane]

B Rob is B Rob who is B Rob. Never was stout against the run and I don't believe he got dramatically worse in one year.

Sorry bud but I completely disagree. I think he finally hit the wall and has been noticeably worse in one year. It happens where players from one year to teh next just aren't the same player.

 

[kerouac9]

Because you have guys like Cheesy and k9 that would always make some comment about where is Gerald Hayes etc.. over the years.

He would catch flack around here many times that I felt was completely unwarranted.

I would correct people who said that Gerald Hayes was an above-average MLB/ILB, because that wasn't true. But I agree with what's being said here that both Hayes and Dansby are missed in run defense. Hayes was a physical enough presence that at least he'd stand up to an offensive lineman instead of getting blown out by him. Dansby then had the instincts to clean up after him.

Last week Rhodes was the guy cleaning up because Lenon was getting destroyed and Washington read the wrong keys (I assume--he always seemed to be on the other side of the field).

 

[football karma]

I am not sure where you get this idea that the Cardinals rush defense was really good last year-

they had 10 games where the opponent averaged more than 4 yards a carry--

they had 4 games where the opponent averaged more than 6 yards a carry (yikes!)--

so -- overall, I dont see a whole lot of difference between this defense and the one last year

 

[Cardiac]

Sorry bud but I completely disagree. I think he finally hit the wall and has been noticeably worse in one year. It happens where players from one year to teh next just aren't the same player.

I won't disagree as I haven't rewatched any game this year to focus on D-line play. And yes some players "fall off a cliff" late in their careers.

I have to ask how come Watson is inactive while B Rob has reportedly "fallen off the cliff"?

Davis and Whiz completely clueless?

It just doesn't add up to me so that's why I didn't believe B Rob has hit that wall.

 

[Duckjake]

It doesn't help our run defense that the Cards are lining up with this front four:

Haggans,Dockett,Campbell,Porter. I saw that several times during the game and the Raiders would just gash it for big yards. I don't think Clark and Joey are your prototypical 4-3 Defensive Ends.

The defense this season has been a huge disappointment after all we heard about how we now had more team players and the changes in personnel being addition by subtraction and that our key leaders had been given extensions in Dockett and Wilson.

The best defensive player we had on the field Sunday were the Raiders offensive players who kept committing penalties in key situations. For instance the holding and delay of game penalties in the red zone.

 

[PJ1]

I know I will get flamed for this. But we seemed to man up an be pretty good against the run almost all of 2008 and were rarely gaffed with yards even by the stud RB's we faced. Again we started out awesome against the run last year. Yet as the season went along we got worse and worse.

I don't think it is any coincidence that this occurred with Gerald Hayes playing hurt a few weeks into the season and then hardly playing at all as the season went along.

I truly think that while he wasn't flashy he is definitely undervalued as a player on this team and what he brings to the table.

Yes Dansby would make an occasional flash play across the LOS for a loss. But at the same time I would see him get rolled over a plenty in the running game. IMO Hayes is the biggest loss this defense experienced when it comes to the running game.

Oh yea Bryan Robinson sucking doesn't help either.

Absolutely. Was even mentioned here when Hayes was out and came back for the game against the Vikings. When healthy Hayes makes our run D very good. We really don't have an answer when he is out and I am not sure he will ever be healthy again. He was a mess in the playoffs.

 

[Cheesebeef]

i dn't remember ever flaming Hayes. I never thought he was really good, but he was solid.

Losing both him AND Dansby has gutted this D though. We have almost no presence in the middle of the field and this was my biggest gripe of the entire off-season. We had one great player who left and another who we were MAJORLY depending on who had a bad back... and did very little to remedy either one of those problems... and anyone who DIDN'T think Hayes' back would be an issue was fooling themselves.

 

[kerouac9]

It doesn't help our run defense that the Cards are lining up with this front four:

Haggans,Dockett,Campbell,Porter. I saw that several times during the game and the Raiders would just gash it for big yards. I don't think Clark and Joey are your prototypical 4-3 Defensive Ends.

The defense this season has been a huge disappointment after all we heard about how we now had more team players and the changes in personnel being addition by subtraction and that our key leaders had been given extensions in Dockett and Wilson.

The best defensive player we had on the field Sunday were the Raiders offensive players who kept committing penalties in key situations. For instance the holding and delay of game penalties in the red zone.

FWIW, I fully expect the defense to get better as the season wears on (if they're not totally exhausted by the bye week). Washington, Williams, and Toler are rookies (essentially); Rhodes and Lenon are being integrated into a new system. As these players become more comfortable with their roles, their play ought to improve.

The downside is that Joey Porter looks finished, and Clark Haggans is being asked to provide a pass rush he cannot produce. I expect their play to wear down as the season progresses, which is much, much worse.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Washington is only to get better and he is pretty good now.

 

[82CardsGrad]

FWIW, I fully expect the defense to get better as the season wears on (if they're not totally exhausted by the bye week). Washington, Williams, and Toler are rookies (essentially); Rhodes and Lenon are being integrated into a new system. As these players become more comfortable with their roles, their play ought to improve.

The downside is that Joey Porter looks finished, and Clark Haggans is being asked to provide a pass rush he cannot produce. I expect their play to wear down as the season progresses, which is much, much worse.

 

[Catfish]

Another strong point, B-Rob's play has declined. I don't understand the situation with Watson being inactive? It's one of a number of curious personnel decisions made this season...

Hey Logic-----I am starting to notice a very similar manner in the handling of Watson that Whiz did with Leinart when he was here. There was always something that Whiz said that Matt needed work on, then he praised him openly for doing the work. Yet he always found some reason not to start him.

Same went with Watson-----first he wasn't strong enough, then when he went into a big work regemin with Lott, he ended up hurting his knee in the freak accident on the treadmill. Then he was too fat, and now he has lost the weight, got stronger, beat out Robinson in preseason, but is being inactive. I wonder if he is another one that will get relegated to the trash pile because he was not one of Whiz's guys.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

I'm not going to debate Dansby's value to this team, but I remember the defense getting beat-down like a rented mule just as often when Dansby was around.

 

[Mulli]

I'm not going to debate Dansby's value to this team, but I remember the defense getting beat-down like a rented mule just as often when Dansby was around.

That is what I always think of whenever people argue about Dansby.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm not going to debate Dansby's value to this team, but I remember the defense getting beat-down like a rented mule just as often when Dansby was around.

It was totally Dansby's fault that DRC can't tackle and Bryant McFadden couldn't cover anyone. The defense was getting beat down with Calais Campbell, Darnell Dockett, and Adrian Wilson on the field, too.