Dansby wants Free Agency

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Graves can't possibly think that salaries are going to go down, can he? Especially for the elite players. It's funny that the market and economy didn't stop the cards from giving Warner 19 mill this year.

Danby is a very good player...

Elite? Not so much...

 

[Stout]

Yeah, Dansby is definitely smoking crack in his expectations. Suggs is an elite pass rushing OLB and KD is not. Two very different kind of LBers, and take a guess which one gets paid less?

Unfortunately, our FO sounds like an antiquated operation in this article. Ugh. Graves, why can't you just keep your mouth SHUT instead of opening it to sound stupid like this. I mean, if you left out how much of an integral part of our 'core' he is and just said he's a great player you'd like to try to re-sign, that would have been great. Instead, you just set yourself up to sound like a boob when the team utterly fails to re-sign him.

 

[lauraw]

Dansby is a Tuxedo LB.. he doesnt like to get dirty and knock the slobber out of somebody. How many times can any of you "Dansby-Lovers" honestly remember saying "He hit the sh#t out of that guy!" Because I've been watching since his rookie year and I don't remember too many of them.. a "Pull-Down LB" He doesn't stick a ballcarrier in the ribs, doesn't go for the "Suggs-Type" hit. we will see if he gets paid on the open market. He's a supreme athlete so someone will pay. but watch because I don't believe it will be a contender.

 

[40yearfan]

we're not arguing about their work as a whole, but rather just discussing this issue. i'd agree with you (and i know this is going to blow a TON of you koolaiders away), that lately they've been making more right moves (quite a bit more right moves) than bad ones. but that doesn't negate the fact that they blew this one.

as for "my opinion" . . . what's my opinion? that the front office's job is to have foresight in making personnel decisions?!? good lord i hope it's someone else's (read michael and bill) opinion too in regards to what they pay their FO for...

also, for all the facts on hand . . . you're basically taking the "scared" route. if there are any red flags the FO is supposed to back off? sometimes you have to gamble. and when the gamble is on a playmaker that produces, i think that's a good gamble. if the suns had taken that same attitude with joe johnson they would have lost him. oh . . . what? they DID lose him?!? that's what a scared FO does that doesn't use good FORESIGHT.

There is a difference between being "scared" and being conservative. It's obvious that the Cardinals organization has made many changes, but they still lean towards the conservative side in decisions like this. Pittsburg does also. It's the nature of having an owner who is in his older years.

This debate can rage on for years, but it is all pure speculation. There is no way of knowing what would have happened if we had done X instead of Y.

But it's fun talking about it.

 

[40yearfan]

Dansby is a Tuxedo LB.. he doesnt like to get dirty and knock the slobber out of somebody. How many times can any of you "Dansby-Lovers" honestly remember saying "He hit the sh#t out of that guy!" Because I've been watching since his rookie year and I don't remember too many of them.. a "Pull-Down LB" He doesn't stick a ballcarrier in the ribs, doesn't go for the "Suggs-Type" hit. we will see if he gets paid on the open market. He's a supreme athlete so someone will pay. but watch because I don't believe it will be a contender.

Teriffic insight Laura.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Dansby is a Tuxedo LB.. he doesnt like to get dirty and knock the slobber out of somebody. How many times can any of you "Dansby-Lovers" honestly remember saying "He hit the sh#t out of that guy!" Because I've been watching since his rookie year and I don't remember too many of them.. a "Pull-Down LB" He doesn't stick a ballcarrier in the ribs, doesn't go for the "Suggs-Type" hit. we will see if he gets paid on the open market. He's a supreme athlete so someone will pay. but watch because I don't believe it will be a contender.

Well watch this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xBipuPuVYs

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There is a difference between being "scared" and being conservative. It's obvious that the Cardinals organization has made many changes, but they still lean towards the conservative side in decisions like this. Pittsburg does also. It's the nature of having an owner who is in his older years.

This debate can rage on for years, but it is all pure speculation. There is no way of knowing what would have happened if we had done X instead of Y.

But it's fun talking about it.

agreed.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Well watch this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xBipuPuVYs

nice find. maybe that will help people realize what an athlete Dansby is. It shows how versatile he is. For all the Suggs lovers, he's the one dimensional player. He just happens to be a very good pass rusher and that's a premium. Dansby brings a more complete game. Anybody who doesn't think Dansby is going to be a very hot commodity is sadly mistaken. In fact, if there's an uncapped year, i'm holding out hope the Cards tag him again. Wishful thinking, but i can hope. I forget who used thsi comparison but that video of Dansby certainly reminds of Wilber Marshall, another tremendous LB who could do it all. Look at it this way. If Dansby played another 5-6 years in a Cards uniform, he could easily go down as the greatest LB they have ever had. I can't think of anyone, maybe somebody is slipping my mind, who is the force KD is. Eric Hill, Ken Harvey, and EJ Junior were very good players but i put Dansby above them easily if he continues his level of play for another 5 years.

 

[Mulli]

nice find. maybe that will help people realize what an athlete Dansby is. It shows how versatile he is. For all the Suggs lovers, he's the one dimensional player. He just happens to be a very good pass rusher and that's a premium. Dansby brings a more complete game. Anybody who doesn't think Dansby is going to be a very hot commodity is sadly mistaken. In fact, if there's an uncapped year, i'm holding out hope the Cards tag him again. Wishful thinking, but i can hope. I forget who used thsi comparison but that video of Dansby certainly reminds of Wilber Marshall, another tremendous LB who could do it all. Look at it this way. If Dansby played another 5-6 years in a Cards uniform, he could easily go down as the greatest LB they have ever had. I can't think of anyone, maybe somebody is slipping my mind, who is the force KD is. Eric Hill, Ken Harvey, and EJ Junior were very good players but i put Dansby above them easily if he continues his level of play for another 5 years.

In my opinion, Eric Hill was not a very good player.

 

[joeshmo]

nice find. maybe that will help people realize what an athlete Dansby is. It shows how versatile he is. For all the Suggs lovers, he's the one dimensional player. He just happens to be a very good pass rusher and that's a premium. Dansby brings a more complete game.

Sorry but you just havent watched Suggs game at all if thats they way you feel. Wondering if you even know who the guy is, if all you think he does is rush the passer. Suggs is without a doubt not a one dimensional player, not even in the slightest. He is awesome in pass coverage, in fact just as good if not maybe a little better in pass pro. Ranked 4th in the NFL among LB's in passes defensed. And he is just as good of a run defender as Dansby is. Suggs has just as complete of a game as Dansby does but plays a permium position and gets a premium stat.

 

[JeffGollin]

People will not realize how good Karlos is until he's gone.

Can we back away from all the "best LB in the history of football" or "good riddance, he's a bum" rhetoric and take a good hard realistic look at KD?

1. Compared to any pure LB we've got (thereby excluding B-Train and Chike), Dansby is by far the most talented on our roster.

2. But, compared to other elite NFL linebackers, I'm not sure I'd rate him so high (i.e. the Cardinals, compared to other teams, don't tend to stock their LB corps with high-profile elite athletes).

3. I wouldn't pay anywhere near that much for Suggs. (It's too risky - a team that spends that much on one player is just one ACL away from disaster, so he'd better be really, really good).

4. Since I'd rate Suggs a notch or two above Dansby, I wouldn't pay Karlos that much either.

5. Another thing we really should take a long, hard look at is Dansby's "realistic replacement value." If he were to miss considerable playing time this coming season, what would be our drop-off in talent (if we had to play Haggans or Hobson inside), and would its impact be (if any) on our W&L?

Furthermore, looking at next year's LB draft crop and other probable free agent LB's, could we come up with someone who would significantly lessen or eliminate any drop off in talent from losing KD?

In other words, what would not having Karlos mean to our entire LB picture and team defense, and what steps will we have to make to insure we stay solid at LB?

Football is a 53-man team sport. Place too much emphasis on any one single player at your own peril.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Lets face it KD is our best LB. He is way over pricing himself IMO. Pace, Suggs contracts have nothing to do with KD. They play different positions, if you had to replace KD or Suggs I can assure you you'd pay a lot more to replace a player like Suggs.

The only reason this is still dragging on is the the Cards FO has misplayed this one. I am not bashing them because, I do believe that they have more hits then misses lately. If we had a replacement for KD they wouldn't have had to F-tag him again. The minute they tagged him KD had all the leverage.

He is guaranteed 18 mil over the last 2 years, and can all but start looking for another big check to cash next year. Now it's in our nature to down play KD'S role with the team because we all realize that he'll no longer be a card next year. Can he be replaced? Yes, but it will take a while for a rookie to come into his own. A FA sure but don't kid yourself they won't be as good as KD.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Cards front office is like a smoker. They want stopped smoking (being cheap skates/not giving traditional incentives etc), but keep getting drawn back to the cancer sticks. They want to quit but just can't help themselves.

I think KD might be asking for the moon but in reality would probably take something in between. It's a normal negotiation tactic. It sounds as of the Cards have made their offer and are not willing to budge. This sounds all too familiar.

 

[40yearfan]

The Cards front office is like a smoker. They want stopped smoking (being cheap skates/not giving traditional incentives etc), but keep getting drawn back to the cancer sticks. They want to quit but just can't help themselves.

I think KD might be asking for the moon but in reality would probably take something in between. It's a normal negotiation tactic. It sounds as of the Cards have made their offer and are not willing to budge. This sounds all too familiar.

Sounds like someone is still stuck in 2006.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sounds like someone is still stuck in 2006.

Yes...all those damn smokers.

 

[Dayman]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/07/17/dansby-faces-cloudy-future-with-cardinals

Said one team insider: “They think he’s a really good player, but the word is that he’s looking for a deal that will average between $12 million and $13 million a year — more than what (former Cardinals LB) Calvin Pace managed to get from the Jets — and there’s just no way the Cardinals will pay him that much.”

I wouldn't pay him that much, either. That's an insane amount of money.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/07/17/dansby-faces-cloudy-future-with-cardinals



I wouldn't pay him that much, either. That's an insane amount of money.

for one, he's alot better player than Calvin Pace so he should get paid more. And two, they are already apying him about 10 mill a year the last 2 year. I agree he's probably not going to get 12-13 mill per year but the Cards are already paying in the same ball park. I'm just guessing,but i'm betting the Cards wanted him to sign a deal in the 7-8 mill/year range. That's basically asking him to take a pay cut before he hits free agency. No way he does that and i don't blame him. Let's face it, the Dansby ship has sailed once this year is over. Graves's window to sign him was 2 years ago. If he'd have offered something like 5 year/35 mill deal with 20 mill guaranteed, i'm sure KD would've jumped at. Instead he's got his 20 mill guaranteed the last 2 years and now can make huge money on the open market. Both guys rolled the dice and Dansby won,bigtime.

 

[40yearfan]

for one, he's alot better player than Calvin Pace so he should get paid more. And two, they are already apying him about 10 mill a year the last 2 year. I agree he's probably not going to get 12-13 mill per year but the Cards are already paying in the same ball park. I'm just guessing,but i'm betting the Cards wanted him to sign a deal in the 7-8 mill/year range. That's basically asking him to take a pay cut before he hits free agency. No way he does that and i don't blame him. Let's face it, the Dansby ship has sailed once this year is over. Graves's window to sign him was 2 years ago. If he'd have offered something like 5 year/35 mill deal with 20 mill guaranteed, i'm sure KD would've jumped at. Instead he's got his 20 mill guaranteed the last 2 years and now can make huge money on the open market. Both guys rolled the dice and Dansby won,bigtime.

And if Dansby had jumped on your 5 year/35million deal, would he now be in the same camp as Boldin and Dockett bemoaning the fact he could have gotten more? And would you be defending him saying he deserves more?

The Cardinals were negotiating with Dansby during the 2007 season. How do you know what their offers were? Maybe they offered your proposal and Dansby refused? I guess it's human nature to form an opinion based on incomplete information, second guessing and hindsight, but it sure isn't a very defensible position. The problem is that we can only guess as to what could have be done and what might have happened in the future. Pure speculation. I find it hard to critisize someone's efforts based on pure speculation.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

And if Dansby had jumped on your 5 year/35million deal, would he now be in the same camp as Boldin and Dockett bemoaning the fact he could have gotten more? And would you be defending him saying he deserves more?

No, and you can't find a post of me defending Boldin or Dockett by saying they deserve more either. In fact, i've been on Graves's side the whole time regarding his stance on Boldin. Dockett, i could care less about since he's about his second year into his deal.

 

[Dayman]

for one, he's alot better player than Calvin Pace so he should get paid more. And two, they are already apying him about 10 mill a year the last 2 year. I agree he's probably not going to get 12-13 mill per year but the Cards are already paying in the same ball park. I'm just guessing,but i'm betting the Cards wanted him to sign a deal in the 7-8 mill/year range. That's basically asking him to take a pay cut before he hits free agency. No way he does that and i don't blame him. Let's face it, the Dansby ship has sailed once this year is over. Graves's window to sign him was 2 years ago. If he'd have offered something like 5 year/35 mill deal with 20 mill guaranteed, i'm sure KD would've jumped at. Instead he's got his 20 mill guaranteed the last 2 years and now can make huge money on the open market. Both guys rolled the dice and Dansby won,bigtime.

I agree that Dansby should have been dealt with years ago, although I'm not as confident 5/35 would have gotten it done. I was just shocked at the current level of his demands. Depending on how you look at Haynesworth's contract (voidable $29 miilon 5th year inflates the value), Dansby wants to be the highest paid defensive player in the league. That certainly qualifies as a big splash.

 

[overseascardfan]

No matter what I think the Cards have the upper hand. Dansby is going to play his heart out looking for a new deal. The economy will play a big role in what teams can afford to offer ( I don't think any team will give him $12-$13M a year) and ARZ can replace him with a number of guys from this list.

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=LB&y=2010

There are a lot of impact ILB's available next year or we can go that route in the draft with some nice ILB prosepcts that would take a little longer to develop. If we lose Dansby, we could use that money somewhere else. If Dansby comes to his senses and re-signs then great but if a player doesn't want to be here (like Anquan and Dansby's actions give that impression they we should move on without them). Build a team with guys who want to be here and want to win by embracing a team concept. Everyone on this team should take a page out of the Adrian Wilson & Ken Whisenhunt book.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

No matter what I think the Cards have the upper hand. Dansby is going to play his heart out looking for a new deal. The economy will play a big role in what teams can afford to offer ( I don't think any team will give him $12-$13M a year) and ARZ can replace him with a number of guys from this list.

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=LB&y=2010

There are a lot of impact ILB's available next year or we can go that route in the draft with some nice ILB prosepcts that would take a little longer to develop. If we lose Dansby, we could use that money somewhere else. If Dansby comes to his senses and re-signs then great but if a player doesn't want to be here (like Anquan and Dansby's actions give that impression they we should move on without them). Build a team with guys who want to be here and want to win by embracing a team concept. Everyone on this team should take a page out of the Adrian Wilson & Ken Whisenhunt book.

Other than Daryl Blackstock and Brandon Johnson, i don't see a whole of impact guys on that list .

I don't think Keith Bullock gets to the open market. D'qwell Jackson would be a guy to look at.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Other than Daryl Blackstock and Brandon Johnson, i don't see a whole of impact guys on that list .

I don't think Keith Bullock gets to the open market. D'qwell Jackson would be a guy to look at.

The list needs updating. There are players who've signed longer term on the list.

 

[Buckybird]

I don't think Keith Bullock gets to the open market.

Dansby and Bullock are the same player playing on differant teams. How much you think he will get paid? Bundles!!! Backup the Uhaul truck and load it up.

 

[seesred]

IMO Dansby from day one had know intention of signing a long term deal here. He wants to see what he can get. If he plays well this season which he will try to do and if he stays healthy he may get the contract he expects. In the 60 million plus with 20-25 gauranteed. We on the other hand will look for another backer. Hopefully the drop off will be very little. Heck we might end with someone who is better. I will root with him this year and hope he gets what he wants. As for next year, I just want to get through 2009-2010.

GBR
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