D'Antoni stands by small-ball lineup

[BC867]

D'Antoni is set on establishing a style and a rotation that he knows can compete with just about any team. That means going to the small-ball lineup - with Amare Stoudemire at center and Shawn Marion and Casey Jacobsen at forwards - regardless of what trees the opponent may have on the court.
"We're trying to develop our guys and our rhythm," D'Antoni said. "I like to coach that way. The Phoenix Suns should be good enough to where I don't care who we play."

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/0207sunsnb0207.html

Oh. the pain!

 

[JS22]

Wow. He just dropped a level on my scale

 

[elindholm]

I have to say, the Suns did look awfully frankjohnsonesque last night. There was a lot of standing around on offense, almost nothing that looked like a set play, way too many three-point attempts, a bizarre obsession with small ball, and too much double-teaming and spastic scrambling on defense. Whatever strategic improvements D'Antoni has brought to the Suns, they sure weren't in evidence against the Sonics.

 

[George O'Brien]

The "small ball" thing is mostly about being able to run the trap. The Suns are successful in using the trap to create turnovers and fast break points. But I think the Suns overuse the trap.

The trap works best against teams that dribble around a lot and those that have one great offensive player. It is not effective against teams that pass the ball well and have a number of pure shooter types.

The problem with the trap is that it leaves guys on the weak side open for jump shots. I think it is unfair for Cotton Fitzsimmons and Eddie Johnson to blame the Suns players for leaving these guys open when it is an inevitable result of the defense they are running.

So why don't the Suns play more man defense? Some of it is that they rely too heavily on steals to create offense. The lack of a solid back to the basket low post player limits them and it is clear the Suns are better suited to run.

But the other problem is that the Suns lack a shot blocking defensive center that can defend one on one. The fact that the Suns always have to double the low block makes their trap far too predictable.

Over reliance on the trap means the Suns do not work enough no keeping their man from penetrating. Man defense is mostly about footwork and knowing the opponent's tendencies. Trapping is mostly about running around like crazy rather than technique.

In any case, the trap is well suited to small ball because smaller players can make the switches more quickly. But no one can run faster than a sharply thrown pass.

The bottom line is that the Suns emphasis on small ball may be due to preference but it may also be a function of their personnel. If the Suns had a solid shot blocking defensive center and still chose to play small ball, then I'd know it's the coaches fault. Right now, I'm just not sure.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It all comes back to a lack of a legitimate intimidator in the middle.

I am almost to the point that I think that Camby would be the best fit for this team.

We lose on boards and on perimeter defense and perimeter defense begins with solid interior defense.

Here is how we are getting beat on defense right now:

A: Suns drive player baseline (as they should) and player still gets to the hoop. Usually it is Marion's man that is driving baseline because Marion is one of the only decent weak side defenders we have. So by making Marion the primary defender you actually weaken the Suns overall defense since there is no one to protect the basket.

B: Pass inside to any remotely competent big man. The double team will come. Rotate the ball to the outside and hit the open J.


We are a very easy team to attack right now.

 

[Chaplin]

I will eat crow and say we need a Marcus Camby-type of player. Unfortunately, I think that is easier said than done, and I really have reservations about Camby himself because of his injury history.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I will eat crow and say we need a Marcus Camby-type of player. Unfortunately, I think that is easier said than done, and I really have reservations about Camby himself because of his injury history.

What we need is a "Camby type player", but someone who is healthy.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
What we need is a "Camby type player", but someone who is healthy.

Exactly, but they don't exactly grow on trees.

Even the generalization of "shotblocking defensive center" is pretty much an endangered species in the NBA.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Exactly, but they don't exactly grow on trees.

Even the generalization of "shotblocking defensive center" is pretty much an endangered species in the NBA.

... except with teams playing the Suns.

 

[Joe Mama]

I really wonder what it would take to get Brendan Haywood from the Washington wizards. It would probably take more than the Phoenix Suns would be willing to give up to get him.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I really wonder what it would take to get Brendan Haywood from the Washington wizards. It would probably take more than the Phoenix Suns would be willing to give up to get him.

Joe Mama

He's too affordable: 2004-05 $1.7 million 2005-06 $2.5 million (qualifying offer)

 

[Errntknght]

We don't need a killer shot blocking center - what we need is one that defends well one-on-one, including knowing how to keep the opponents center from routinely establishing the position he wants. And can rebound well. Right now Lampe looks like a pretty good bet - he's got some size and quite good footwork. Rebounding is a question mark but he should be able to use his footwork to block out well, and that's a heck of good start.

Our problems on defense mainly start with having to double team almost every low post player we go against. Amare is going to have to improve but he should be able to harnass his physical abilities to do the job. Once we have two decent defenders in the low post, we can cut way back on all this defensive scrambling, which does well sometimes but all too often just kills us. And it messes us up at the other end of the floor as well. Hopefully, D'A isn't so in love with small ball that he'll use it whether he needs to or not. From things he's said I suspect that may be the case, just our rotten luck.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by elindholm
I have to say, the Suns did look awfully frankjohnsonesque last night. There was a lot of standing around on offense, almost nothing that looked like a set play, way too many three-point attempts, a bizarre obsession with small ball, and too much double-teaming and spastic scrambling on defense. Whatever strategic improvements D'Antoni has brought to the Suns, they sure weren't in evidence against the Sonics.

If last night's small ball is the style of play we are going to see , I'm gone. For that matter, so is D'Antoni. This article on D'A supporting small ball is more depressing than Marion shooting 3's from the top of the circle. It seemed like he had more sense when he took over and is regressing into the same role as FJ, and all the other small-ball loving coaches we've been stuck with for years. I really had some hope for him turning this team into a real contender but if he thinks small ball is going to get the job done, he needs to consider getting an MRI on the brain.

 

[JS22]

And let the fire D'Antoni campaign begin....

I was thinking it would be different this time. Oh well.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I don't think anyone wants to fire D'Antoni.

I just don't think he is flawlessly coaching.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
I don't think anyone wants to fire D'Antoni.

Not yet, but I hope he changes his mind about this...

That means going to the small-ball lineup - with Amare Stoudemire at center and Shawn Marion and Casey Jacobsen at forwards - regardless of what trees the opponent may have on the court.

I agree with him when he said:
"We're trying to develop our guys and our rhythm," D'Antoni said. "I like to coach that way. The Phoenix Suns should be good enough to where I don't care who we play."


BUT, I don't agree with the following....It doesn't say it all

Marion and Stoudemire can guard either forward spot, allowing D'Antoni to not worry about head-to-head matchups as much. The only thing he sees lacking in his plan is the crunch-time experience.
He should be able to see the team is lacking the size need to stop most opponents and we're in serious trouble if we don't get rebounds. Small-ball ain't gonna do it.

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders

I just don't think he is flawlessly coaching.

That about sums it up.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Errntknght
We don't need a killer shot blocking center - what we need is one that defends well one-on-one, including knowing how to keep the opponents center from routinely establishing the position he wants. And can rebound well.

The key is to be able to discourage people from driving the lane. Amare had a huge impace on the Jazz game with his blocks, but he has to jump to do it. The great ones just stick up their hands and screw up opponents shooting.

Right now Lampe looks like a pretty good bet - he's got some size and quite good footwork. Rebounding is a question mark but he should be able to use his footwork to block out well, and that's a heck of good start.

I think Lampe will be very good defensively - someday. I'm just not sure when.

Our problems on defense mainly start with having to double team almost every low post player we go against.

Ostertag averages 8.1 ppg in 31.1 minutes, but against the Suns he gets 14 points in 22 minutes.

Amare is going to have to improve but he should be able to harnass his physical abilities to do the job. Once we have two decent defenders in the low post, we can cut way back on all this defensive scrambling, which does well sometimes but all too often just kills us. And it messes us up at the other end of the floor as well.

I agree. Amare has a lot to learn on defense and the trap is more effective if it is a surprise rather than used all the time.

Hopefully, D'A isn't so in love with small ball that he'll use it whether he needs to or not. From things he's said I suspect that may be the case, just our rotten luck.

It is hard to say. Right now the Suns are a better small ball team than a "big ball" team because even Voskuhl is not that big. I don't think Mark West was blowing smoke when he said the Suns main priority in the off season is a defensive center who can rebound and score some points. Let's hope they they find him.

BTW, while Lampe may be that guy, it is just as likely he will end up as a forward. I'm hopeful he will make a difference, but I'd go after a center anyway.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
The key is to be able to discourage people from driving the lane. Amare had a huge impace on the Jazz game with his blocks, but he has to jump to do it. The great ones just stick up their hands and screw up opponents shooting.



I think Lampe will be very good defensively - someday. I'm just not sure when.

Ostertag averages 8.1 ppg in 31.1 minutes, but against the Suns he gets 14 points in 22 minutes.



I agree. Amare has a lot to learn on defense and the trap is more effective if it is a surprise rather than used all the time.



It is hard to say. Right now the Suns are a better small ball team than a "big ball" team because even Voskuhl is not that big. I don't think Mark West was blowing smoke when he said the Suns main priority in the off season is a defensive center who can rebound and score some points. Let's hope they they find him.

BTW, while Lampe may be that guy, it is just as likely he will end up as a forward. I'm hopeful he will make a difference, but I'd go after a center anyway.

I don't understand how you can accurately say that Lampe will be this or that--they guy hasn't even played more than a few minutes in his NBA career, and I'm guessing you never saw him play in Europe.

Right now, there is potential, but who's to say he'll be a great defender?

 

[Errntknght]

"BTW, while Lampe may be that guy, it is just as likely he will end up as a forward. I'm hopeful he will make a difference, but I'd go after a center anyway."

I'd certainly agree that we should go after another center or PF - a large fellow who can defend in the low post and rebound in either case. Heck, I'd take two of them right now - I just watched the Jazz game and we were pathetic on the boards. (Man, did we play stupidly - why not play Lampe, he could make a ton of rookie mistakes and fit right in with the rest of team.)

I don't think it would make much difference whether Lampe was a PF or C - he'd almost certainly play the high post whatever one called him. If he were paired with Amare in the frontcourt he'd defend the stronger opponent and Amare the more active so it probably wouldn't matter on defense either.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Errntknght
"BTW, while Lampe may be that guy, it is just as likely he will end up as a forward. I'm hopeful he will make a difference, but I'd go after a center anyway."

I'd certainly agree that we should go after another center or PF - a large fellow who can defend in the low post and rebound in either case. Heck, I'd take two of them right now - I just watched the Jazz game and we were pathetic on the boards. (Man, did we play stupidly - why not play Lampe, he could make a ton of rookie mistakes and fit right in with the rest of team.)

I don't think it would make much difference whether Lampe was a PF or C - he'd almost certainly play the high post whatever one called him. If he were paired with Amare in the frontcourt he'd defend the stronger opponent and Amare the more active so it probably wouldn't matter on defense either.

D'Antoni has figured out how to keep the games just close enough that Lampe doesnt play.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
D'Antoni has figured out how to keep the games just close enough that Lampe doesnt play.

You know, I think BC might have a hand in who gets to play. It's the only thing that makes sense. Perhaps they believe Lampe is just too young and his body is not developed enough to stand the NBA punishment. I hope that's the case but I don't believe it is.

D'Antoni was very excited about Lampe when he came over in the trade. What happened? He was put on the IL. All this talk about developing a team and not playing certain players adds up to one thing. The players not being developed don't have a future with the Suns.

It just makes sense to me, that if you have a player on your team who you believe will be a factor in the future of the team, NOW is the time to find out. It's pretty obvious that White & Harvey will be gone and we're stuck with Eisley.

Lampe will probably be included in a trade for someone like Boykins. We could really move up & down the court - he could change the meaning of dribbiling between the legs and add some real excitement to our team.

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by Wally
You know, I think BC might have a hand in who gets to play.

You've hit on a good point, Wally. Jerry, who twice named himself Head Coach (with a background in Marketing and Scouting), and Bryan (whose lack of NBA credentials are obvious) have been calling the shots, no matter who is coaching.

They threw us a crumb with Mike D', who at least had one partial (losing) season of NBA Head Coaching experience (plus a bunch overseas), versus the usual none-at-all of Johnson/Skiles/Ainge/Westphal/etc.

But as time goes by, it gets worse and worse.

At this time, the Suns are using a 7-man rotation, with the two off the bench being Guards. And we keep losing.

Cotton Fitzsimmons is our only non-player who has passed NBA-101, and evidently he's too advanced in years to fight the Suns establishment.

His bringing in Barkley represents the only 4-year period in Suns history when they were not the Phoenix Wuss.

I have to say this again. At this time, the Suns are using a 7-man rotation, with the two off the bench being Guards. And we keep losing.

The team, the fans, the league, and the major investors deserve better!

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by BC867
At this time, the Suns are using a 7-man rotation, with the two off the bench being Guards. And we keep losing.

Since we have not seen Lampe in a competative situation, I'm not sure we know if his playing would help. Would playing White and Harvey more have meant the Suns would have won the last two games?

I think the problem right now is that the chemistry between Amare and Jake is still off. The team does not play well with both on the floor as evidenced by very poor opening quarters.

I think this phase will pass. Obviously getting pounded on the boards cannot continue if Mike hopes to start winning games.

 

[Errntknght]

"Since we have not seen Lampe in a competative situation, I'm not sure we know if his playing would help."


The reason to play Lampe is to speed his development and to allow the team to more accurately assess his future value and type of game plans that he fits into. It will also help keep his enthusiasm for the game up when he's working his fanny of next summer. I don't see anything that is even a close second to those things in importance to the Suns. Now, if we saw something resembling a well designed offense or defense under construction that would qualify.

 

[SirStefan32]

What we need is 48 minutes a game with a real center and a real PF. That would be a good beginning. I am sick of SG's playing PF's.