Darren Urban on AM 1060 - Aug 11

[joeshmo]

As for the media's reports on Warner: I haven't seen anything like that in print or heard anything on the radio. I've heard that he's had good passes--but so what? He throws 75 of them a day. All I've heard--over and over--is the reporters kind of shrugging their shoulders and saying "there's not much to say--it's not like there's a competition going on."

Well then you just arent listening or are deaf. Because that is the complete opposite of what they are saying. And I listen to the radio 10 hours out of the day while at work. Sorry but you are just completely wrong on this part of the issue, there no point in even debating it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

When's the last time a Cardinal QB had a 86.5 QB rating over the course of a season?

Honestly though, anyone who has seen Warner over the last couple years should be a little wary on him becoming the next Green reclamation project. There's more than enough evidence to suggest the guy's finished as a NFL QB.

 

[kerouac9]

So you think he will have a lower rating then he did last year (86.5).

And I would be giddy with 86.3 rating. Thats a 12.2 point jump compared to McCown bottom feeding 74.1. And 12.2 points is a pretty big upgrade, and would upgrade our O considerably.

I do. I think he'll be less protected without a 1500-yard rusher and a receiving TE that demands double coverage, at the very least, that should account for a couple of tenths of a point.

A 12.2 point upgrade from the QB position would probably translate to an extra two to three wins, which is where I think the Cards are.

 

[kerouac9]

Well then you just arent listening or are deaf. Because that is the complete opposite of what they are saying. And I listen to the radio 10 hours out of the day while at work. Sorry but you are just completely wrong on this part of the issue, there no point in even debating it.

That's just not true! I know that Bob Kemp is skeptical, and I know that MJ isn't gushing about Warner in camp. Look back through the AZCentral.com or EVTrib articles and show me the effusive praise for Kurt Warner. It sounds like there's optimism, but it's cautious optimism always appended with "but we haven't seen him in front of a real pass rush yet."

That's what I'm hearing, at least.

 

[Russ Smith]

He took a lot of hits because they started hemmoraging personnel on the offensive line. I also think that Martz starting having to over-compensate for Hakim being gone to Detroit. He took a lot of hits, but he always seemed to get the ball out to someone before he took them.

He probably has some shell-shock, but he's never been in a system that made him look as good as he did at the Trans World Dome. Green's success is taking QBs from less-friendly offenses and putting them in one that was especially friendly. Warner's going from an unfriendly system to one that's more friendly, but not as QB-friendly as Martz's was.

n."

He got sacked nearly as often in 99 as he did in 2001 if you go by sacks per 100 pass attempts. It's interesting he had more passes over 20 yards in 2001 than in the remarkable 99 season, but less over 60, I would guess losing Hakim had a lot to do with that they never really found a #3 that could do what Hakim did in 99.

There's no question defenses adjusted, they realized the Rams left Warner in an empty backfield virtually every passing down so they started to focus on just hitting him on every throw so that he'd eventually get happy feet. Sure seemed to work, he got hit a lot in 99 too but I think 2000 and 01 he got hit more.

In general Martz has never believed in needing to protect the QB being all that important, they let OL's leave, they didn't draft Ol's with high picks, he firmly believed that if Warner got hurt he'd just plug in someone else and make him look just as good. Green and Bulger DID look good, but Warner had as many TD passes in his first 16 games as Bulger did in his last 29(2 less really).

I'm not saying that Warner would have put up those numbers in 99 anywhere, but I do think that there were very few QB's in the NFL who could have done what he did that year.

I just hope he's healthy again, he has looked like a shell in the last 2 years with all the fumbles.

 

[joeshmo]

I do. I think he'll be less protected without a 1500-yard rusher and a receiving TE that demands double coverage, at the very least, that should account for a couple of tenths of a point.

Then what about the protection of having 2 WR's who should demand double coverage, and one more WR on the field, along with a better oline who is much better then the injury plagued line the Giants put on the field last year, or a much better suited offensive system for Warner as well. Or the fact that he has had more Practices and time to get better timing with this team then he ever did with the Giants. He missed all of the Giants mini camps I believe becuase he was signed so late (June 3rd).

That should account for an upgrade in passer rating compared to last years shouldnt it?

 

[duckfallas]

You aren't factoring in the continued improvement on the defensive side. That is good for another 2 wins, at least, IMO. Warner + an improved defense is good enough for 10 wins in the NFC West but it has to be Warner in there and not McCown.

 

[Russ Smith]

You aren't factoring in the continued improvement on the defensive side. That is good for another 2 wins, at least, IMO. Warner + an improved defense is good enough for 10 wins in the NFC West but it has to be Warner in there and not McCown.

Not to mention that in our division SF is still going to be weak(although they swept us last year) and the Rams and Seattle could both be on the decline this year.

I don't think anybody is saying Warner's going to break Manning's year old TD pass record, but I do think he's a huge upgrade and if he can stay healthy enough to start at least 12-14 games I'll consider it a good signing. It's unlikely he'll start all 16 games given his history.

Teams are going to bring the house against us, another reason I think JJ Arrington could have some really big runs this year, catch teams in an all out blitz, hand the ball to JJ and watch him run.

 

[joeshmo]

That's just not true! I know that Bob Kemp is skeptical, and I know that MJ isn't gushing about Warner in camp.

Bob Kemp. Are you serious. He hasnt seen a single practice yet, he doesnt even watch the regular season games most of the time, and has absolutely zero insight into this team. He is the least knowledgable and has the least amount of contacts then any other reporter in town when it comes to the Cards. MJ, Urban, and Somers are the only reporters in town that have any kind of contacts on this team and are the only ones who actually watch the team practice and play.

I didnt say they were gushing over him, but they are certianly saying he has looked good and much better then they ever expected. And MJ is saying good things about Warner, he said it a few days ago when he interviewed Fitz and Boldin. MJ has always said that he has a good deep ball, a little wobble on the ball sometimes but the ball is always where it needs to be their and when it needs to be there. That is almost word for word what he said yesterday and in the interview with Fitz and Boldin. And CardinalLaw told you what he said yesterday. This is coming from his biggest critic when we signed him by the way and he is actually in camp watching him play, not sitting at his desk like Kemp.

 

[joeshmo]

Teams are going to bring the house against us, another reason I think JJ Arrington could have some really big runs this year, catch teams in an all out blitz, hand the ball to JJ and watch him run.

I never even thought about this. With the speed he hits the holes, he will make them pay.

 

[kerouac9]

Then what about the protection of having 2 WR's who should demand double coverage, and one more WR on the field, along with a better oline who is much better then the injury plagued line the Giants put on the field last year, or a much better suited offensive system for Warner as well. Or the fact that he has had more Practices and time to get better timing with this team then he ever did with the Giants. He missed all of the Giants mini camps I believe becuase he was signed so late (June 3rd).

That should account for an upgrade in passer rating compared to last years shouldnt it?

I've always disagreed with the assertion that Anquan draws double coverage. He didn't in his rookie season (remember the Bears game when they just shows players chucking him--not one play where he was double-covered), and he won't this season. He can't get behind the safeties.

I don't think that Fitz has the speed or big-play ability to demand double coverage, either. He'll have to show it, because you didn't see a lot of teams rolling coverage his way last season, either. So there's that.

I think that BJ will be a help, but he's a #3, so how much will he really be able to contribute?

Nothing protects a QB better than a good running game, and he's not going to have that. A better offensive line is a speculative question at best right now. Personally, I think that the Giants' line wasn't as bad as many here are making it out to be. They seemed all right once Eli came in...

Hey, maybe you think he'll put up a 97 rating next season. I'm just trying to keep it real. I think that it's well within reason for him to put up an 88-91 rating, but I think it's overly optimistic considering the position he's going to be placed in.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Personally, I think that the Giants' line wasn't as bad as many here are making it out to be. They seemed all right once Eli came in....

You should catch more giants games. Im amazed he didnt finish on the IR

 

[kerouac9]

Bob Kemp. Are you serious. He hasnt seen a single practice yet, he doesnt even watch the regular season games most of the time, and has absolutely zero insight into this team. He is the least knowledgable and has the least amount of contacts then any other reporter in town when it comes to the Cards. MJ, Urban, and Somers are the only reporters in town that have any kind of contacts on this team and are the only ones who actually watch the team practice and play.

I didnt say they were gushing over him, but they are certianly saying he has looked good and much better then they ever expected. And MJ is saying good things about Warner, he said it a few days ago when he interviewed Fitz and Boldin. MJ has always said that he has a good deep ball, a little wobble on the ball sometimes but the ball is always where it needs to be their and when it needs to be there. That is almost word for word what he said yesterday and in the interview with Fitz and Boldin. And CardinalLaw told you what he said yesterday. This is coming from his biggest critic when we signed him by the way and he is actually in camp watching him play, not sitting at his desk like Kemp.

What I heard was him say that "Warner throws a better deep ball than McCown." I think we agree that no one's saying that he looks horrible, but also that no one's saying that he's setting the world on fire (which is what CardinalLaw was saying). MJ didn't expect anything from him, so of course he's surpassing his expections (I don't think that MJ really expected him to be better than McCown).

I love how spot-on Jurecki is with all his analyses as long as he agrees with you (I'm not talking to you here, Jo; this is most everyone else--especially posters like Law). But if he's saying something bad about the team, he doesn't know anything...

Does anyone really think that Warner isn't going to be the third-best QB in the division this season? Seriously?

 

[arthurracoon]

Hey, maybe you think he'll put up a 97 rating next season. I'm just trying to keep it real. I think that it's well within reason for him to put up an 88-91 rating, but I think it's overly optimistic considering the position he's going to be placed in.

I think a passer rating of about 85 would be a HUGE upgrade over the past.

 

[arthurracoon]

And remember, with our defense, we just need to have a MEDIOCRE offense to make the playoffs.

 

[Lex]

I think Warner will be the best quarterback in the NFC West this year when all is said and done.

Food for thought:

After the Giants bet the farm drafting Manning, and Warner had them something like 6-3 last year, was when the blocking went away for Warner, allowing the switch to the golden boy to logically take place.

I'm just saying...think about it.

 

[seesred]

My question is how bad is Ross hurt? When did it happen and is there to be an MRI?

GBR
40

 

[Shane]

My question is how bad is Ross hurt? When did it happen and is there to be an MRI?

GBR
40

All very good questions indeedy!

 

[Russ Smith]

You should catch more giants games. Im amazed he didnt finish on the IR

Manning was only sacked 13 times in nearly 200 attempts, Warner 39 in 277 attempts. IN about 80 more attempts, Warner was sacked 3 times as many times as a nervous rookie. It's hard to say how good or bad the Giants OL really was last year but Warner certainly did them no favors in terms of sacks.

That's my biggest concern with him, the last 2 years when the rush comes he either ducks his head and goes down, or stands there, takes the hit and fumbles. It's the definition of deer in the headlights, I really hope whatever has been wrong with him is done with and he doesn't do that here as well.

 

[CardinalLaw]

All very good questions indeedy!

He twisted his knee. Nothing serious I think. They never mentioned anything torn, so I think its just soar.

 

[BACH]

Green and Rowen have a system similar to what Warner succeeded in. That is why Green wanted him. Whether or not he still has the skills remains to be seen. Judging by early camp reports, he still has it.

What he needs is an O line that will give him enough time to deliver the ball. If he gets that this season I see the Cardinals winning at least 10 games, maybe more.

Can't compare the two systems at all!!! They might look somewhat similar, but for I can't think of two more different system from the O-Line's perspective. KC has the most mobile and most active OL in the league while St. Louis relies on quick-passes, so the OL sans Pace basicly just have stand in the way.

I do. I think he'll be less protected without a 1500-yard rusher and a receiving TE that demands double coverage, at the very least, that should account for a couple of tenths of a point.

Okay, I don't get this argumentation at all.. First, do you seriously think Shockey and two no-bodies are better that Fitz, Boldin and BJ. Shockey is THE most overrated player in the league. Second, did you see the game against us last season. That Giants O-Line couldn't even figure out that Berry switched side, so on several occasions the LT got help from Shockey to block KVB!!!

He got sacked nearly as often in 99 as he did in 2001 if you go by sacks per 100 pass attempts. It's interesting he had more passes over 20 yards in 2001 than in the remarkable 99 season, but less over 60, I would guess losing Hakim had a lot to do with that they never really found a #3 that could do what Hakim did in 99.

I would think losing his C and RT in FA and having Martz replace them by terrible players had something to do with it as well...

 

[CardLogic]

That's my biggest concern with him, the last 2 years when the rush comes he either ducks his head and goes down, or stands there, takes the hit and fumbles. It's the definition of deer in the headlights, I really hope whatever has been wrong with him is done with and he doesn't do that here as well.

What you just described is a confidence issue (part of the problem with McCown also). I agree with the analysis but I believe that Warner's current confidence level may be as good as it has been in 3-4 years.

Last year Warner understood that the Giants brought him in as a placeholder. Yet, excepting the sacks and fumbles, he did a fair job in NY. There was nothing in NY to help in giving Warner a boost of confidence, in fact myriad issues on the Giants team probably detracted from any level of confidence he had.

On the other hand, in Arizona Warner was given the #1 spot early-on during the offseason. Sure McCown is standing by should Warner falter, but it's not anything at all like keeping the seat warm for the golden boy (Manning). The job is his. Add to that the fact that the Cardinals are a team that is poised to make the jump from bottom-feeder to playoff contender. The whole team is starting to have some swagger.

Third point; Warner is going into the season healthier than he has been in years (maybe 01 or 02).

I think that Warner has his confidence back. Some early season success will help to insure it.

 

[kerouac9]

Okay, I don't get this argumentation at all.. First, do you seriously think Shockey and two no-bodies are better that Fitz, Boldin and BJ. Shockey is THE most overrated player in the league. Second, did you see the game against us last season. That Giants O-Line couldn't even figure out that Berry switched side, so on several occasions the LT got help from Shockey to block KVB!!!

I think that Shockey, Toomer (who's a fine WR and is probably the best WR in the history of the NY Giants), and Barber are better than Fitz, Boldin, and BJ. Yes, I do.

Shockey's overrated, I agree, but he's a very good outlet pass (when he catches the ball) and a player that defenses have to account for on every play. I don't believe that this is the case for any of our WRs at the moment. I know that this isn't a popular opinion, but I think that it's been borne out by the evidence.

Maybe Fitz, Anquan, and BJ are the best WR trio in the NFL, but that's only speculation until they show it on the field, which won't be until 9/11. Until then, Fitz is not much more to me than a red zone stud, Anquan is a glorified possession WR, and BJ is still a bit of an enigma, unless he's being covered by a 5th string CB.

 

[CardLogic]

Shockey's overrated, I agree, but he's a very good outlet pass (when he catches the ball) and a player that defenses have to account for on every play. I don't believe that this is the case for any of our WRs at the moment.

:roll: So try playing defense without accounting for any WR... Reminds me of a Cardinals defense, against SF I think, on the goaline where a WR was split out and left uncovered. You know the result...

 

[arthurracoon]

:roll: So try playing defense without accounting for any WR... Reminds me of a Cardinals defense, against SF I think, on the goaline where a WR was split out and left uncovered. You know the result...

Yea, they forgot about TO...