Davis could be playing final game for Arizona

[Totally_Red]

I agree letting Davis go without any compensation, especially this offseason would be insane. Joe has already told us we have boo coo salary cap space. I really see no downside to franchising him. It's not like we have a pro-bowler waiting in the wings to play LOT.

If Davis refuses to sign the franchise tag offer, he's refusing roughly 10-11 million dollars. Does anybody seriously think he's going to sit out and refuse to accept that much cash?

At worst, he delays signing, in which case, he ties up that much salary cap. But we know the Cardinals can well afford to have that much space tied up. If another team wants him, they have to come to the Cardinals with a trade offer. (See the Rams and the Aeneas Williams trade.) Davis is no HOFer like Aeneas was, but if the Cardinals don't like the trade offers, he plays one more year, while Joe Thomas or someone else is groomed as his replacement. If ever there was a front-office no-brainer, franchising Big is it.

 

[Boyd Cardinal]

Letting Davis go would be pure stupidity, there is no downside to keeping him or tagging him. Even people that hate Davis as a player would agree that letting him walk would be one of the dumbest moves in recent history.

Agreed, I am no Davis fan, but who else is available and who will replace him? He is seriously over-paid, but until a better option presents itself we have no choice but to stick with him. You cannot let the second overall pick in the draft walk with no compensation.

 

[BACH]

I agree letting Davis go without any compensation, especially this offseason would be insane. Joe has already told us we have boo coo salary cap space. I really see no downside to franchising him. It's not like we have a pro-bowler waiting in the wings to play LOT.

If Davis refuses to sign the franchise tag offer, he's refusing roughly 10-11 million dollars. Does anybody seriously think he's going to sit out and refuse to accept that much cash?

At worst, he delays signing, in which case, he ties up that much salary cap. But we know the Cardinals can well afford to have that much space tied up. If another team wants him, they have to come to the Cardinals with a trade offer. (See the Rams and the Aeneas Williams trade.) Davis is no HOFer like Aeneas was, but if the Cardinals don't like the trade offers, he plays one more year, while Joe Thomas or someone else is groomed as his replacement. If ever there was a front-office no-brainer, franchising Big is it.

I'm pretty sure it's harder to hold out under the new CBA AND the team can remove the tag at any time.

It's a no-brainer IMO, and I'm sure (I hope anyway) that the reason why the team won't comment on it is because the new coach gets to make that choice.

Franchise him, listen to offers. Trade him you get the right offer.

If not... You overpay for having stability on the line and a year to find a reeplacement.

 

[JeffGollin]

First of all, nothing's happened - except that a writer had to fill some space with a column raising the issue.

Second, our offensive line has finally developed to a point where our running game has become fairly respectable and our QB isn't getting killed. Letting Leonard walk would mean risking all we've worked so hard to build during the latter part of this season.

Third, I sense a cavalier attitude about the offensive line on the part of Cardinal management. By their past actions (and inaction) it seems as if they don't consider a strong offensive line to be an important priority. They sort of sat on their heels during the James Dexter/Joe Wolf/Matt Joyce days of mediocrity and later on let Kendall, Shelton and Clement walk for no compensation in return.

Earth to the Bidwills - You build championship franchises up-front on both sides of the ball. Sometimes you have to overspend on your offensive line in order make sure you're solid.

At the very least, if we can't come to terms with Leonard, we've got to tag him so as not to let our investment in him - both in dollars and in the very high draft spot we expended on him - go down the drain for naught.

 

[Pariah]

I don't think there is an argument that can convince me Big should be allowed to walk. It's idiotic.

That's why I'm resigning myself to the fact that he's not going to be here next year and we're not going to get jack-squat or him. It's a classic Cardinals manuever (which rhymes with manure).

 

[football karma]

For what its worth:

Last night on the Big Red Rage -- Calvisi and Wolfley were talking about the importance of keeping Leaonard Davis.

They noted that going the rookie route is no sure thing -- Wolf pointed out that Bryant McKinnie took three years to get to the "competant" level -- this is a guy who didnt allow a single sack in college

Wolf also said that the Jets have determined that Ferguson needs outside help in pass protection most of the time

Why do I post this?

I am a big believer that organization employed broadcast folks are a window into what management is thinking -- and in fact -- management uses those folks to guide fans expectations.

Based on this -- I think they will do everything they can to resign Leonard.

I also think that Big's feelings are a bit hurt ( cue steam coming out of Rugby's ears) --and he just needs the organization to chase him a little

 

[Mitch]

For what its worth:

Last night on the Big Red Rage -- Calvisi and Wolfley were talking about the importance of keeping Leaonard Davis.

They noted that going the rookie route is no sure thing -- Wolf pointed out that Bryant McKinnie took three years to get to the "competant" level -- this is a guy who didnt allow a single sack in college

Wolf also said that the Jets have determined that Ferguson needs outside help in pass protection most of the time

Why do I post this?

I am a big believer that organization employed broadcast folks are a window into what management is thinking -- and in fact -- management uses those folks to guide fans expectations.

Based on this -- I think they will do everything they can to resign Leonard.

I also think that Big's feelings are a bit hurt ( cue steam coming out of Rugby's ears) --and he just needs the organization to chase him a little

1. This may be a moot point if Davis wants out. If the Cards tag him, he might get all the more disgruntled...and it could hold him and the team in limbo.

2. If the Cards do resign him, it better be to play him at guard where he belongs. That will solve the false start situation and it would provide the team with one of the most imposing, intimidating forces in the middle.

The question then becomes who can play LT? Milford Brown played some tackle for the Texans...and Deuce played RT for USC as a junior. It may make sense to see if one of them is the answer.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

"it wouldn't surprise me" in that context is hardly a ringing advertisement that he is leaving. "It's business as usual" and "we'll sit down and talk contract after this final game" pretty much says what it is. There is nothing in this article which gives any indication where the team or LD stands.

One thing is for sure, LD has nothing to lose this weekend, and A LOT to gain. If he holds Merriman down, his PRICE tag goes way up, and so does the likelihood the the FRANCHISE tag goes on.

 

[D-Dogg]

1. This may be a moot point if Davis wants out. If the Cards tag him, he might get all the more disgruntled...and it could hold him and the team in limbo.

2. If the Cards do resign him, it better be to play him at guard where he belongs. That will solve the false start situation and it would provide the team with one of the most imposing, intimidating forces in the middle.

The question then becomes who can play LT? Milford Brown played some tackle for the Texans...and Deuce played RT for USC as a junior. It may make sense to see if one of them is the answer.

I'd rather see if Joe Thomas is the answer....and Big is a G anyway. Imagine a line of Thomas, Big, Leckey (please upgrade), Lutui, Wells.

I'd actually like to try out Deuce or Brown at RT to take Wells spot. Then the other would play RG. Or, if Big is gone, then Brown starts in his place.

Honestly, I think we are one tackle away from having a strong line, regardless of whether Big stays here. And Leckey is a good stop gap at center, but the part I'd look to upgrade in the next season or two. Solidify the line, get some corners and watch this team move to the next level.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

1. This may be a moot point if Davis wants out. If the Cards tag him, he might get all the more disgruntled...and it could hold him and the team in limbo.

2. If the Cards do resign him, it better be to play him at guard where he belongs. That will solve the false start situation and it would provide the team with one of the most imposing, intimidating forces in the middle.

The question then becomes who can play LT? Milford Brown played some tackle for the Texans...and Deuce played RT for USC as a junior. It may make sense to see if one of them is the answer.

Just when we've found some stability on the O-line, you want to shuffle it again. WHY?

(P.S. My prediction: Whether in Arizona or somewhere else BIG will be playing tackle... false starts and all. A prediction, by the way, no better or worse than your suggestion that the Giants will represent the NFC in the Super Bowl.)

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I'd rather see if Joe Thomas is the answer....and Big is a G anyway. Imagine a line of Thomas, Big, Leckey (please upgrade), Lutui, Wells.

I'd actually like to try out Deuce or Brown at RT to take Wells spot. Then the other would play RG. Or, if Big is gone, then Brown starts in his place.

Honestly, I think we are one tackle away from having a strong line, regardless of whether Big stays here. And Leckey is a good stop gap at center, but the part I'd look to upgrade in the next season or two. Solidify the line, get some corners and watch this team move to the next level.

Half or more of the league is "one tackle away", that's why we should keep the player in hand, BIG... and quit dreaming about the Joe Thomas' who've yet to play one down against someone who isn't planning on being a Doctor, lawyer, real-estate salesman or will end up flipping burgers.)

 

[football karma]

1. This may be a moot point if Davis wants out. If the Cards tag him, he might get all the more disgruntled...and it could hold him and the team in limbo.

2. If the Cards do resign him, it better be to play him at guard where he belongs. That will solve the false start situation and it would provide the team with one of the most imposing, intimidating forces in the middle.

The question then becomes who can play LT? Milford Brown played some tackle for the Texans...and Deuce played RT for USC as a junior. It may make sense to see if one of them is the answer.

As pointed out in another thread -- Walter jones was a perpetual franchise tag type player for a few years and it seemed to work -- as well as Orlando Pace.

Again, we have an offensive line that is working thus far -- why the compulsion to change it.

You cant be serious about Brown or Lutui at LT.

At draft time, if Joe Thomas, or some other Lt is the BPA on the board and the Cards end up with him -- I am all in favor of getting the five best linemen on the field --

but until we have a truly viable option at LT, we have to let go of the Big as a guard obsession.

 

[Mitch]

Just when we've found some stability on the O-line, you want to shuffle it again. WHY?

(P.S. My prediction: Whether in Arizona or somewhere else BIG will be playing tackle... false starts and all. A prediction, by the way, no better or worse than your suggestion that the Giants will represent the NFC in the Super Bowl.)

Davis is a Pro Bowl caliber guard and alternate Pro Bowl caliber tackle. I guarantee you, CC, that if Davis signs elsewhere he will play guard. The reason is simple...if you were an NFL defensive coordinator who had to prepare his defensive line to play against a line with Davis on it, would you rather see Davis at LT or LG?

Yeah, my Giants prediction isn't looking too good right now. I am surprised they have faltered so badly...and when I made the prediction Michael Strahan was scheduled to return...and now, after re-aggravating his injury, he's been placed on the IR. But...the NFC is so weak that whatever team makes it in as the 2nd Wild Card may have as good a chance as any to make it to the Super Bowl...especially since the Bears have become so vulnerable due to Grossman's erratic play and the losses of Tommie Harris and Mike Brown on their defense.

 

[D-Dogg]

Half or more of the league is "one tackle away", that's why we should keep the player in hand, BIG... and quit dreaming about the Joe Thomas' who've yet to play one down against someone who isn't planning on being a Doctor, lawyer, real-estate salesman or will end up flipping burgers.)

That's all fine and good but the reality is that Big isn't enamored with AZ and is a UFA this season, so we need to think about alternatives, especially if the Cards do the ridiculous, incredibly stupid thing and don't tag him (which we all realize is possible).

And if Big stays, and stays at LT, a Joe Thomas at RT would be just fine in my book as well.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

That's all fine and good but the reality is that Big isn't enamored with AZ and is a UFA this season, so we need to think about alternatives, especially if the Cards do the ridiculous, incredibly stupid thing and don't tag him (which we all realize is possible).

And if Big stays, and stays at LT, a Joe Thomas at RT would be just fine in my book as well.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Davis is a Pro Bowl caliber guard and alternate Pro Bowl caliber tackle. I guarantee you, CC, that if Davis signs elsewhere he will play guard. The reason is simple...if you were an NFL defensive coordinator who had to prepare his defensive line to play against a line with Davis on it, would you rather see Davis at LT or LG?

Yeah, my Giants prediction isn't looking too good right now. I am surprised they have faltered so badly...and when I made the prediction Michael Strahan was scheduled to return...and now, after re-aggravating his injury, he's been placed on the IR. But...the NFC is so weak that whatever team makes it in as the 2nd Wild Card may have as good a chance as any to make it to the Super Bowl...especially since the Bears have become so vulnerable due to Grossman's erratic play and the losses of Tommie Harris and Mike Brown on their defense.

Can I go to the bank with that? Didn't think so.

If Steve Hutchinson is the left guard, as a D-coordinator, I'd like him to switch positions with Big... and I'd like Big at guard with with most of the league because quality left tackles are so rare. As said; I'll stick to my belief that, no matter what the arm chair coaches say... Big will be a tackle somewhere next season.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

And if Big stays, and stays at LT, a Joe Thomas at RT would be just fine in my book as well.

That is the best case scenario. Reggie Wells and Leckey are the weakest links on the line. Re-signing Davis and drafting Thomas allows us to move Wells to center where he can battle it out with Leckey.

 

[Pariah]

The reason is simple...if you were an NFL defensive coordinator who had to prepare his defensive line to play against a line with Davis on it, would you rather see Davis at LT or LG?

That depend on who else they had to play LT and G.

You may be ight about Big playing guard on his next stop--we've seen with Hutch that G's can command a large salary. But I think that'll have more to do with Big -- if he wants to play G, he'll go somewhere where they'll let him play G.

 

[john h]

:notworthy

Worst case scenario, you are stuck with a decent tackle at not much more than he makes now, for another year. WORST CASE. It is a freaking no-brainer, and personally this is the final test of the changes in the Bidwill philosophy...can they make the risky play (even when the risk is hardly a risk at all) and do the right thing? I will be SHOCKED if they don't tag Big.

Who would replace Davis????? Unless you have a viable replacement your team continues down the same old trail of a loser. Just how many first round draft choices have we lost only to watch them be very good starters for other teams in the NFL? We need to hire a new HC and staff ASAP so they can have some input into this situation. Big is our best OL and our OL is the weakest part of this team. Other teams are extending the contracts of their good players while we contemplate letting our high 1st rd pick walk with nothing in return. He is just now reaching the time when he should start giving us a return on investment. Like he said he has been placed at three positions since he has been here and he wonders just how he might have played if he had stayed at one position. Letting him walk is part of the same old Cardinal system that got us to where we are. At least we may not have to worry about a backup QB as Kurt has indicated he will probably not retire and come on back. That is no small deal as he may be one of the best backup QB's in the NFL.

 

[D-Dogg]

Who would replace Davis????? Unless you have a viable replacement your team continues down the same old trail of a loser. Just how many first round draft choices have we lost only to watch them be very good starters for other teams in the NFL? We need to hire a new HC and staff ASAP so they can have some input into this situation. Big is our best OL and our OL is the weakest part of this team. Other teams are extending the contracts of their good players while we contemplate letting our high 1st rd pick walk with nothing in return. He is just now reaching the time when he should start giving us a return on investment. Like he said he has been placed at three positions since he has been here and he wonders just how he might have played if he had stayed at one position. Letting him walk is part of the same old Cardinal system that got us to where we are. At least we may not have to worry about a backup QB as Kurt has indicated he will probably not retire and come on back. That is no small deal as he may be one of the best backup QB's in the NFL.

I agree with you, and it is why I think it is imperative that we tag Big. IF he ends up walking, we get compensation for him.

When I wrote out that the worst case is that we have a decent tackle on the team in him staying, what I was getting at was that our "worst case" in this situation, if we tag him, is pretty freaking awesome. It's a no-lose scenario but we HAVE to tag him.

 

[D-Dogg]

That depend on who else they had to play LT and G.

You may be ight about Big playing guard on his next stop--we've seen with Hutch that G's can command a large salary. But I think that'll have more to do with Big -- if he wants to play G, he'll go somewhere where they'll let him play G.

A new coach may also let him play guard here. That's also a consideration. I guess we'd find out if it were the FO or Denny that wanted Big at tackle in that case.

 

[Duckjake]

"it wouldn't surprise me" in that context is hardly a ringing advertisement that he is leaving. "It's business as usual" and "we'll sit down and talk contract after this final game" pretty much says what it is. There is nothing in this article which gives any indication where the team or LD stands.

One thing is for sure, LD has nothing to lose this weekend, and A LOT to gain. If he holds Merriman down, his PRICE tag goes way up, and so does the likelihood the the FRANCHISE tag goes on.

I expect the Chargers to bring Merriman from the Cardinals right side as Arizona now has the TE out with LD on the left side. I know he was coming in from that side some against Seattle.

What'd the guy have 3 sacks against Seattle? With Walter Jones playing left tackle for the 'Hawks. I hope Navarre keeps his arm warm.

 

[football karma]

DJ--

the Cards move the TE to either side

Against the Broncos -- they had Wakefield lined up on the right to help with Dumervil -- who promptly blew past Fred's outside shoulder and sacked the QB

 

[SECTION 11]

We won't tag him. As with Boston, it's not the "spirit" of the rule to tag somebody you don't plan on resigning... If I remember correctly that's what Graves said in 2003.

 

[DeAnna]

But if the Cards tag him for the $11m salary, who the heck would want to trade for him to play LT? he's already proven he cannot play LT; would you pay $11 for a guard?