Davis could be playing final game for Arizona

[ajcardfan]

But if the Cards tag him for the $11m salary, who the heck would want to trade for him to play LT? he's already proven he cannot play LT; would you pay $11 for a guard?

Since he's been selected as Pro Bowl alternate two years running, certainly not on the power of fan voting, I don't think it's been "proven" he can't be a LT. I think Cards fans are far more down on Davis than the rest of the NFL. IF he makes to the open market, you just watch how many teams fall all over themselves trying to sign him as a LT.

 

[ajcardfan]

We won't tag him. As with Boston, it's not the "spirit" of the rule to tag somebody you don't plan on resigning... If I remember correctly that's what Graves said in 2003.

That was also the year he talked about the "cooling off" period rule in signing free agents. We threw that one out the window, hopefully we throw this one out too.

 

[joeshmo]

But if the Cards tag him for the $11m salary, who the heck would want to trade for him to play LT? he's already proven he cannot play LT; would you pay $11 for a guard?

They wouldnt trade for the 11 Mill price tag. They would trade for the long term contract that his agent and the team trading for him works out after we give Davis permission to seek a trade.

 

[joeshmo]

We won't tag him. As with Boston, it's not the "spirit" of the rule to tag somebody you don't plan on resigning... If I remember correctly that's what Graves said in 2003.

Oh yah, one of the great Graves quotes of all time.

 

[red desert]

Edit: [/URL]

Honestly dude, why are you popping Viagra for me? I think we've crossed paths about 6 times total. Once you welcomed me to the board. Once you laughed at a joke. Twice you popped off about me with no provocation, and twice more you've responded to my posts with dripping hatred and bile. What gives. I didn't sleep with your lady, if that's what you are getting at. Otherwise, I don't know why you are perpetually swinging from my groin.[/QUOTE]

You have way too much time on your hands. Quit whining and put me on ignore. I'll do the same to you. There. Done.

 

[D-Dogg]

I'll do the same to you. There. Done.

:notworthy

 

[RugbyMuffin]

They can trade him and considering the complete lack of Olineman on the market they could get something good in return or if worse comes to worse they can rescind the tag.

Letting him go without a plan and we've got back to the loser program we've been over the past couple of years

You know what?

You are right. There is in fact a big time shortage of offensive linemen in this league.

Teams have to give a up A LOT to sign a franchise tagged player but if the Cardinals have any advantage in the league it is that the rest of the teams in this league think we are idiots.

Thus they would think we are crazy to look to trade Davis, and that might give us a decent chance to get something for the guy in return.

If we were to get a 1st round pick for Davis I would be exstatic !

Good post. Thanks for banging head with me about it!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

That was yesterday, this is today.

Totally different set of circumstances, totally different FA market, totally different cap economics.

Different ? Of course it is different. Everyday is different. I think you are really stretching to make a point. People are saying letting Big go would be the dumbest offseason move made be the Cardinals ever. How can it be the biggest mistake ever without anything to compare it to.

But I do agree. It is today. Today should be the day the Cardinals stop throwing huge amounts of money at average, and sub-average offensive linemen like they have for years now.

As you said it is time to stop the loser mentallity.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Who would replace Davis????? Unless you have a viable replacement your team continues down the same old trail of a loser.

I see the reason for concern. I personally think we could easily find a LT that to replace Big for WAY less then he wants right now.

I think Big is very replacable and very overated.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I see the reason for concern. I personally think we could easily find a LT that to replace Big for WAY less then he wants right now.

I think Big is very replacable and very overated.

Really.... give us the name of that cheap and effective replacement for Big.

 

[Pariah]

Really.... give us the name of that cheap and effective replacement for Big.

I'm curious, too.

 

[ajcardfan]

I'm curious, too.

I'd also like to hear how he'd use all the great savings we'd get by replacing Davis too.

 

[joeshmo]

Different ? Of course it is different. Everyday is different. I think you are really stretching to make a point. People are saying letting Big go would be the dumbest offseason move made be the Cardinals ever. How can it be the biggest mistake ever without anything to compare it to.

Stretching? Whats to strech? Back then, Little money and lots of FA to pick from. Now, Lots of Money and no FA's to spend it on and new CBA. Not just a little different its a big difference. Especially in Otis Andersons case which was 3 CBA'a ago. Nothing is in a vaccuum and you have to take those circumstances into account when comparing those mistakes.

And the point wasnt letting Big go being the biggest mistake, may be others points but it isnt mine(I know you said people and not me). The biggest mistake would to be letting him go without compensation considering the cap economics, FA market, and new CBA involved. Lots of Money with no one to spend it on = equals the best trade environment ever since the start of FA. Teams have to find a way to get better and use up their cap space making teams much more responsive to trade deals. Even though Rice and Miller were better players when you take into account the circumstances today compared to then Davis(whether you like him or not, that isnt the debate) is a much easier sell to other teams for trade purposes.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Really.... give us the name of that cheap and effective replacement for Big.

I can't.

But thankfully that is not my job to do so.

Plus it is not the money that I care about. It is my opinion, and my belief the guys doesn't want to be here in AZ. I have said about a zillion time that this team has the talent to not tops in the NFC. I really think it is the attitude, and the chemsitry in the locker that is the problem here. I think we have talent to spare, and a lack of a winning attitude.

As for Joeschmo I have already agreed that you are right. That tagging Big is really what we should do.

If he wants a trade I think the lack of big name linemen out there will be to our benefit. And a trade would have a good chance of happening. Plus Big has stayed in AZ for money in the past, and $11 mil SHOULD be enough to keep him in AZ for at least another year.

 

[john h]

Just start a thread educating people...seriously...drop out pros and cons of tagging Big and diagram the FA market and how Big is shaping up to be a blue chip FA OL, and the dearth of them in the league.

The nuggets of wisdom you are dropping all over the place NEED to be put in one location, stickied, and linked everytime someone whines about this issue...because it will only get louder as we a) don't tag Big or b) do tag Big.

The offensive line was one of the better part of our games this week. We are not going to find anyone as good as LD in free agency and no rookie will be as good as he is coming out his first year. We need to keep LD where one likes him or not. It is to our benefit. Yes, it will cost a lot. Look at FA baseball this year. Guys who would normally be $5 million dollar guys are getting $10 mil deals for 5-8 years. Demand determines the worth of a player not what we consider he is worth. Many think LD is a potential all star guard. I am one of them. These lineman are perhaps the hardest of all good FA to find. Our line played well the last 5 weeks of the year so let us not break it up when it finally is doing what it supposed to do. Draft some good lineman but it takes a few years for OL to mature in the NFL. The Wisconsin guard looks good and many are saying he will go in the top 5. Well, we are number 5. DB's are really hard to evaluate coming out of college and are a lot more risky. We clearly need some help at DB big time. I think with good coaching we have a playoff team with a decent draft and good health. We do need another RB. Warner needs to stay put and our new coach needs to make sure we have decent and experienced coordinators.

 

[JeffGollin]

Consider This

New HC. A second year under Loney.

New lease on life for Leonard? Can he be coached up to eliminate his weekly quota of 1 - 2 false starts per game?

(Note - If all 22 Cardinal offensive and defensive starters were "permitted" to commit 1 - 2 penalties per game, the Cardinals would average 22- 44 penalties per game. Ouch!!!)

 

[john h]

A new coach may also let him play guard here. That's also a consideration. I guess we'd find out if it were the FO or Denny that wanted Big at tackle in that case.

I think a new HC and assistants will change our existing players view this team and how it effects them and their future with the team.

It has taken me all these years to finnaly have Graves step up and say he was responsible for personal and not Green. That he makes the final decision (I still think with some input from the Bidwills). He in fact acts somewhat like a real GM. That being said he should have over ridden Green on some of his moves like getting rid of our only decent center at the start of the season. Like hiring assistants who had never coached before. He sure made some big bo bo's along the road but Michael Bidwill had nothing but praise for him. He has signed some good players to long term contracts which in past years the Cards would not have done. Seems he and Green came together to select the top 100 players on their draft board so the Bidwills were not involved in that (?). If our new coach wants control of what players we sign then he better look at another team. He can have input but in the final analysis Graves will make the decision with the Bidwills approval of course.

 

[D-Dogg]

IMO, the best possible scenario would be drafting Joe Thomas for LT, moving Big to LG and extending him, getting Clements in FA and a LB in FA.

The odds of all that happening = not that good. However, if we could pull all that off it would vastly improve our team.

 

[Stout]

Could you imagine landing Briggs or Thomas at LB and Clements at CB? *slobber*

 

[D-Dogg]

Could you imagine landing Briggs or Thomas at LB and Clements at CB? *slobber*

Seriously...the draft would just be gravy at that point.

 

[john h]

IMO, the best possible scenario would be drafting Joe Thomas for LT, moving Big to LG and extending him, getting Clements in FA and a LB in FA.

The odds of all that happening = not that good. However, if we could pull all that off it would vastly improve our team.

I could easily accept this sceniero but like you say the odds are long. They were long on us getting our current QB also.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

IMO, the best possible scenario would be drafting Joe Thomas for LT, moving Big to LG and extending him, getting Clements in FA and a LB in FA.

The odds of all that happening = not that good. However, if we could pull all that off it would vastly improve our team.

Here's what more likely to happen with Graves in charge. Let Big hit the open market and walk with no compensation, sign Tito Paul to comeback, amd move Monty Biesel to WLB and look to build the belly of the team.That's Rod Graves style for you.

 

[Goldfield]

IMO, the best possible scenario would be drafting Joe Thomas for LT, moving Big to LG and extending him, getting Clements in FA and a LB in FA.

The odds of all that happening = not that good. However, if we could pull all that off it would vastly improve our team.

I agree with this 100% and it could very well happen. There is no reason they Cards couldnt sign Clements & one of the OLB's.

I dont wanna mess with the Oline anymore since it is doing pretty good. But If we drafted Thomas I could see him at LT with Big at LG, and I would take a hard look at Brown at RT. Brown has very good feet & agility. He is IMO a very good Linemen. I would love to see him replace Wells at RT.

But like I said, leave the line alone other than bringing in depth at OT.