Day 2 Combine Thread QBs, WRs, Rbs

[Southpaw]

You'd better figure that out or else you may draft a dude who isn't all that good without a good supporting cast or QB-Stat friendly system or QB to lean on.

Dana Halgorsen runs a stat padding offense. Fun to watch and may be the future of the NFL. See Chip Kelly.


PS, I wonder how many in this discussion are basing Smith on his performance on the Pinhead Blizzard Bowl? That was a toss away IMO.

 

[JeffGollin]

PS, I wonder how many in this discussion are basing Smith on his performance on the Pinhead Blizzard Bowl? That was a toss away IMO.

I think this may be one of those years when you put the stat books, media reports and workout results on a back shelf and turn to past game tapes and skill-set analysis to determine whether Geno or any other QB has got what it takes to be "your guy."

I'm not ruling out the possibility that, after putting the magnifying glass on Smith, Barkley or anyone else, that Arians and his staff may "see something", but I'm not holding my breath.

The more likely (but not the only possible) scenario would have the Cards pass on drafting and starting a rookie QB (because none are worth taking at #7 or even as a trade-up option late in the first round), staying with Kolb or Hoyer for the time being and using the draft to rebuild the OL and other parts of the supporting cast (while we wait for the right opportunity to land a really good QB to come along). Plan 2B of this scenario would include drafting a developmental QB as early as round 2 or as late as round 7. Also, not to be ignored would be the option of bringing in a veteran FA to back up or push Kolb.

 

[CardsFan88]

Well Oregon offenses have been pretty stellar, yet none of their QB's have done much on the pro level. Is that because the system makes mediocre QB's look better? What if a decent to elite NFL QB runs such an offense?

Would it matter since the NFL is full of bigger, faster, smarter defenses? We're going to find out in the next few years.

Chip Kelly's team has been stacked with some near freakish athletes at the skill positions that simply could roll over lesser talented teams. Putting the pressure on the defenses with a hurry up offense. But he is very creative. The question really is, is it really an offense, or good play calling by Chip Kelly? I don't think we can appropriately name it something like Run N Shoot. Plus NFL defenses have long been shown to be susceptible to quick offenses, do tend to deal with it better than college teams.

Some QB's in friendly offenses can make it in the NFL, but then there are also guys like Andre Ware and David Klingler that were simply AMAZING in college and sucked in the pros.

So it's fair to both criticize some of these guys, but at the same time it doesn't mean they suck and can't play on the pro level.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Stefan Taylor made Maurice Clarett look fast.

I think it's funny that Mayock and the analysts blasted Clarett for his slow time but, with Taylor, they say to disregard the time and look at the tape. I'll tell you right now, Taylor's game tape does not compare to Clarett's.

It's another reason I'm don't put a whole lot on what Mayock says. He plays favorites and just because he uses some terms "like stand on the table for him", people consider him the be all, end all when it comes to evaluations. He's not. The next time he says anything bad about a ND player will be his first.

 

[Southpaw]

Stefan Taylor made Maurice Clarett look fast.

I think it's funny that Mayock and the analysts blasted Clarett for his slow time but, with Taylor, they say to disregard the time and look at the tape. I'll tell you right now, Taylor's game tape does not compare to Clarett's.

It's another reason I'm don't put a whole lot on what Mayock says. He plays favorites and just because he uses some terms "like stand on the table for him", people consider him the be all, end all when it comes to evaluations. He's not. The next time he says anything bad about a ND player will be his first.

Stefan BIM Stepfan.

 

[JeffGollin]

Stefan Taylor made Maurice Clarett look fast.

I think it's funny that Mayock and the analysts blasted Clarett for his slow time but, with Taylor, they say to disregard the time and look at the tape. I'll tell you right now, Taylor's game tape does not compare to Clarett's.

It's another reason I'm don't put a whole lot on what Mayock says. He plays favorites and just because he uses some terms "like stand on the table for him", people consider him the be all, end all when it comes to evaluations. He's not. The next time he says anything bad about a ND player will be his first.

I think Clarett may have had a few character red flags that added to his downgrade.

Double-standard issue notwithstanding - Taylor sure didn't look slow on Stanford game tape, and then there's the standard "Emmitt ran a 4.6" argument. And Marcus Allen wasn't famous for his blazing speed.

Yet, if there were two similar RB's and one ran faster, who among us wouldn't opt for the faster dude?

Conclusion - there are other things besides speed that define a successful RB - like vision, agility, low COG, strength, ability to break tackles & rack up RAC yards. But there is a threshhold that must be reached to succeed despite being slow - i.e. you'd better have enough of that non-speed mojo to overcome that lack of speed (&, in most cases, it's not enough). Slow guys who are a success tend to be the exception & not the rule, but "never say never."

 

[Chopper0080]

Stefan Taylor made Maurice Clarett look fast.

I think it's funny that Mayock and the analysts blasted Clarett for his slow time but, with Taylor, they say to disregard the time and look at the tape. I'll tell you right now, Taylor's game tape does not compare to Clarett's.

It's another reason I'm don't put a whole lot on what Mayock says. He plays favorites and just because he uses some terms "like stand on the table for him", people consider him the be all, end all when it comes to evaluations. He's not. The next time he says anything bad about a ND player will be his first.

I took it differently. I took it as Taylor ran slow, but they expected him to run slow. Clarett ran slow and they expected him to run fast.

 

[Chopper0080]

I liked Ace Sanders as a 5th / 6th round WR and returner.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Stefan Taylor made Maurice Clarett look fast.

I think it's funny that Mayock and the analysts blasted Clarett for his slow time but, with Taylor, they say to disregard the time and look at the tape. I'll tell you right now, Taylor's game tape does not compare to Clarett's.

It's another reason I'm don't put a whole lot on what Mayock says. He plays favorites and just because he uses some terms "like stand on the table for him", people consider him the be all, end all when it comes to evaluations. He's not. The next time he says anything bad about a ND player will be his first.

There is a huge difference between Taylor and Clarett.

Taylor went to Stanford and is very intelligent.

Clarett went to OSU and is dumb as a rock.

 

[Mulli]

There is a huge difference between Taylor and Clarett.

Taylor went to Stanford and is very intelligent.

Clarett went to OSU and is dumb as a rock.

Boom!

 

[JeffGollin]

There is a huge difference between Taylor and Clarett.

Taylor went to Stanford and is very intelligent.

Clarett went to OSU and is dumb as a rock.

And both were as slow as a rock.

 

[Totally_Red]

There is a huge difference between Taylor and Clarett.

Taylor went to Stanford and is very intelligent.

Clarett went to OSU and is dumb as a rock.

Taylor will play in the NFL, Clarett not so much.

 

[CardsFan88]

Unofficial Manti Te'o 1st 40 time of 4.81 (and if it's like the other NFLN results, those should be bumped higher [slower]).

Mayock said it confirms some of what you see on tape, that he thought he wanted him to run 4.75 or less.

2nd time = 4.80

Hard pressed to see him in top 20. I think he probably slides into the 2nd round now. Showed John Harbaugh shaking his head and he personally timed 4.83.

Almost unfair to see him then Cornelius Washington run 3 full tenths faster.

 

[Chopper0080]

Unofficial Manti Te'o 1st 40 time of 4.81 (and if it's like the other NFLN results, those should be bumped higher [slower]).

Mayock said it confirms some of what you see on tape, that he thought he wanted him to run 4.75 or less.

2nd time = 4.80

Hard pressed to see him in top 20. I think he probably slides into the 2nd round now. Showed John Harbaugh shaking his head and he personally timed 4.83.

Almost unfair to see him then Cornelius Washington run 3 full tenths faster.

He isn't the most athletic ILB, and his catfish issue knocks his perceived leadership benefit. I still think he is a top 60 guy, but it will depend on if teams think he can play all three NFL downs which running a 4.8 can bring to question.

 

[CardsFan88]

He isn't the most athletic ILB, and his catfish issue knocks his perceived leadership benefit. I still think he is a top 60 guy, but it will depend on if teams think he can play all three NFL downs which running a 4.8 can bring to question.

Officially now a 4.82.

Looked like Te'o has a 2nd and 3rd gear, but no 1st or 4th. Decent form in the drills with no slips or screw ups unlike a good portion of others.

I agree I question whether many NFL teams will think he is a three down LB. He will be an ILB so I guess they'd have to compare it to their other guys who may be older, heavier and slowed down.

Though as they've been mentioning he dropped 12 lbs for his senior year and 5 more lbs for the combine so it is concerning that a guy drops that much weight and is still a 4.82 guy.

Hopefully for Te'o he presses well. He's got some good arms and should be able to.

He's going to make his money diagnosing the gap, filling it, and tackling the ball carrier which is why the National championship imo really hurt him. That's pretty much all his skillset allows him to do. Unless he picks up coverage on the Jeff King's of the NFL.

Though he showed his senior year if the ball is placed in his hands he can catch it. Showing good hands at the combine as well.

So I think the bench press is a place he can recoup a bit more or slide down further. His arms should give him a decent advantage at 32 1/2 inches.

 

[JeffGollin]

Back in the day, you wouldn't worry that much about Te'o's 4.82 speed because the prototype MLB was a Butkus-type physical animal who'd come downhill at you and knock your lights out. It was all about toughness, diagnostic instincts and not all that much about speed.

The position has evolved since then to favor smaller, faster dudes with sideline-to-sideline range, who can cover as well as fill and hit.

Te'o ideally would go to a team like the Bears where he could replace a guy like Urlacher, but, in most cases, that 4.82 may be too slow to merit a Top 25 grade (& maybe not even round one).

 

[Mulli]

Back in the day, you wouldn't worry that much about Te'o's 4.82 speed because the prototype MLB was a Butkus-type physical animal who'd come downhill at you and knock your lights out. It was all about toughness, diagnostic instincts and not all that much about speed.

The position has evolved since then to favor smaller, faster dudes with sideline-to-sideline range, who can cover as well as fill and hit.

Te'o ideally would go to a team like the Bears where he could replace a guy like Urlacher, but, in most cases, that 4.82 may be too slow to merit a Top 25 grade (& maybe not even round one).

Fun fact: Urlacher ran a 4.57. Lance Briggs a 4.75. Manti te-slow.

 

[Buckybird]

Back in the day, you wouldn't worry that much about Te'o's 4.82 speed because the prototype MLB was a Butkus-type physical animal who'd come downhill at you and knock your lights out. It was all about toughness, diagnostic instincts and not all that much about speed.

The position has evolved since then to favor smaller, faster dudes with sideline-to-sideline range, who can cover as well as fill and hit.

Te'o ideally would go to a team like the Bears where he could replace a guy like Urlacher, but, in most cases, that 4.82 may be too slow to merit a Top 25 grade (& maybe not even round one).

I still don't think Teo can play the MLB in the NFL...WLB possibly, but I've had doubts about his NFL career before his catfish incident. We will see, but IMO Teo's nothing but an average joe. He simply can't take on & get off blockers.

 

[Southpaw]

I still don't think Teo can play the MLB in the NFL...WLB possibly, but I've had doubts about his NFL career before his catfish incident. We will see, but IMO Teo's nothing but an average joe. He simply can't take on & get off blockers.

The second coming of........


The Boz.

Great college players, not so much NFLers. Doesn't make them bad guys.

Pick one;

Teo or Buster Davis.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

There is a huge difference between Taylor and Clarett.

Taylor went to Stanford and is very intelligent.

Clarett went to OSU and is dumb as a rock.

Yes, that's a huge factor when it comes to running a football. Have you ever heard Emmit Smith try to form a sentence? I'm sure Walter Payton received an elite education at Jackson St.

Btw, Polian was on ESPN and said Taylor was one of his biggest disappointments at the Combine. He said he'll make a roster but that slow time shows he'll be limited in the NFL. Funny, he didn't mention receiving a Stanford education making him a better player.

 

[JeffGollin]

The second coming of........


The Boz.

Great college players, not so much NFLers. Doesn't make them bad guys.

Pick one;

Teo or Buster Davis.

Pssst! You're probably right, but as soon as you make a conclusive prediction (because it reminds you of a similar situation a few years ago) these things tend to come back and take a bite out of your *ss. It would be our luck that Te'o turned out to be a defensive superstar.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I took it differently. I took it as Taylor ran slow, but they expected him to run slow. Clarett ran slow and they expected him to run fast.

Not that slow. Lane Johnson is faster. It's probably not a good thing when your OT can beat your RB in a race.

 

[Mulli]

Yes, that's a huge factor when it comes to running a football. Have you ever heard Emmit Smith try to form a sentence? I'm sure Walter Payton received an elite education at Jackson St.

Btw, Polian was on ESPN and said Taylor was one of his biggest disappointments at the Combine. He said he'll make a roster but that slow time shows he'll be limited in the NFL. Funny, he didn't mention receiving a Stanford education making him a better player.

Walter Payton nailed it when he hosted SNL. I got nothing except for how dare you!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Unofficial Manti Te'o 1st 40 time of 4.81 (and if it's like the other NFLN results, those should be bumped higher [slower]).

Mayock said it confirms some of what you see on tape, that he thought he wanted him to run 4.75 or less.

2nd time = 4.80

Hard pressed to see him in top 20. I think he probably slides into the 2nd round now. Showed John Harbaugh shaking his head and he personally timed 4.83.

Almost unfair to see him then Cornelius Washington run 3 full tenths faster.

Then Mayock, again, because it's one of HIS guys, said to disregard the time, look at the game tape, and how the later drafting teams were hoping he runs a slow 40 so they could get a shot at him.

Not directed at you but, when are people going to realize that Mayock is just as much a TV shill as Kiper and McShay? The only difference is McShay's draft forecasts beat Mayock's for 5 years running.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I liked Ace Sanders as a 5th / 6th round WR and returner.

Same. He came up big in the clutch for South Carolina. He's like Roberts but more shifty.

Fitz-Floyd-Roberts-Sanders is a seriously good WR corps.