Days 4, 5 of FA Thoughts

[Mitch]

Day 4:

Defections: None

Additions: None

Crickets

Day 4 Grade: F

__________________________________________________________________

Day 5:

Defections: None

Additions:

RB Andre Ellington---this is a sign that clearly the Cardinals do not value toughness and STs improvement. Sure, Ellington has open field skills as a receiver out of the backfield or as a bounce wide RB. But, he's not tough enough to run between the tackles, nor is he tough enough to block, nor is he any factor whatsoever on STs. One could ask, could he be a factor as a slot WR? Certainly, he has the speed and elusiveness to gain separation, but can he withstand the pounding that slot WRs take when safeties bear down on them after the catch? Again, this is where toughness and durability matter. If he makes the team, the only way he is active on game days is if David Johnson and/or Kerwynn Williams is hurt. He's not going to be the #4 WR. As a backup RB and WR he would have to be a factor on STs to be active on game days. And that is not happening. One of the encouraging things about K. Williams is that last in the season he recorded 4 tackles in the last 4 games on STs. Yes, he blew two blocks that led to punt blocks, but he should have never been assigned as the punt protector by BA's "brilliant" STs coordinator.

Cardinals' UFA Visits Elsewhere:

LB Kevin Minter---Colts.
OLB/DE Alex Okafor---Saints

UFA Visits tio Cardinals:

OLB Jarvis Jones (PIT)---Jones is an intriguing player. He has yet to develop as a reliable edge rusher, although in the right system he might emerge as a good edge pressure guy, because he has the speed and agility. What he has shown is a good ability to set the edge as a 34OLB and the speed to cover and chase down QBs and RBs. This is where James Bettcher could get creative. With the loss of Calais Campbell, if Bettcher was give a good base 34 OLB like Jones, in the base 34, he could slide Chandler Jones down to the play Campbell's 5 technique and play Jones beside him on the edge. The Patriots liked doing that with Jones from time to time. And in passing situations, Jones would spend most of the time at rush DE, and some of the time as rush DT. Not sure, however, if the Cardinals are all that serious about signing Jarvis Jones. Word is the Cardinals want Okafor back, and that the Rams and DC Wade Phillips are in hot pursuit of Jones. Jones visits with them today and will likely sign with them. The Cardinals' interest in Jones appears to be token.

Day 5 Grade: F

At this point in the Cardinals' dormant approach to free agency, two things have become crystal clear: (1) BA's prediction at the Combine that the Cardinals would lose "2 or 3" free agents is laughable; (2) Steve Keim is already preparing for the 2018 rebuild and has been since the Chandler Jones trade last year.

This is strange response from the Cardinals' FO to the underwhelming 2016 7-8-1 season. It feels akin to the coaches' and players' response to the humiliating beatdown by Carolina in the 2015 NFC Championship Game by turning in what was, for all intents and purposes, a no-show in the 2016 pre-season.

As was the case after Kurt Warner's two brilliant years in 2008 and 2009....the Cardinals cannot seem to handle success. They remain a house of cards ready to fall at the slightest breeze. They remain what they always have bee: pretenders---not contenders. Despite what they try to sell and tell to the fans.

And here's a forecast of what Cardinals' fans are likely to see in 2018. BA, Fitz and Palmer will be retired. BA will take over for Terry McDonough as VP of Player Personnel and the newly appointed head coach will be James Bettcher, who will be signed to a 5 year $25M deal. Harold Goodwin remains the OC, only now he will be calling the plays for real. Freddie Kitchens will be the passing game coordinator. Brentson Buckner will be named the DC. Drew Stanton will be re-signed to a 2 year $12M deal with incentives while second year QB Davis Webb is still being developed. Although this forecast may seem satirical to some, this is not a joke.

 

[LittleDavis]

I always read your analysis and enjoy. I disagree with the Ellington assessment. He knows the system and he can be a productive back. We are in a position to be selective with the pieces added at this point. We can't discount the Jones signing. That was huge and something the Cards have been unable or willing to get done in the past. Dansby over Minter any day of the week and I think there is a reason that TJ and DJ were good. When you have a shutdown corner like PP it allows others to look better. I also think that both of those young guys knew they were playing for those contracts and that can take a burden on a locker room(no proof they caused any problems). Bethea will play better than he did in San Fran. and I don't see us missing a beat especially if TM stays healthy. I liked both but not at the contracts they received...even more so with Cooper. CC, hmmmm, love the guy but not with that contract. There is a reason Nkemdiche was on the shelf and I expect him to take a huge stride this year. I am not seeing the sky falling yet and I see the 7-8-1 team as a 10-6 or 11-5 not a 4-12 or 5-11 team that got lucky.

 

[Reign Blood]

To overspend in the off season is what's laughable. I usually agree with you Mitch but I feel it's unfair to give up on the season because we didn't sign or woo any big time cry baby millionaires. If CC was all that and a true Cardinal he would've stayed. Cards stood their ground and CC is a Jag. A Jag dude come on. He got paid...

To overspend especially with the cap room all the other teams have is next to impossible. But I am hoping a trade or something happens to break the boredome of the off season. Peace.

 

[GuernseyCard]

The "Speedy" Jarvis Jones

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...arvis-jones-lackluster-during-georgia-pro-day

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1576884-why-jarvis-jones-looks-foolish-after-sub-par-pro-day

 

[TheCardFan]

The Cardinals have a plan.

Defense - Regarding CC, that is why they drafted Nkemdiche last year and kept so many DL on the roster. They moved quickly to sign Bethea and reduced Branch's salary. They signed Dansby to replace Minter this year. Cooper was decent IMO but can be upgraded (we need a solid #2). They are counting on HB to step up in a big way and stay healthy this year.

Offense - They re-signed Gresham (I am not a fan) and AQ for continuity, so the offense should be better next year (same players but we need better execution). We still need another big WR this year. We also need to upgrade our back-up QB spot. Not a big deal if you are not really a playoff team but for a team that is going all in this year...you can't win with Stanton if Palmer goes down.

Special teams - Goodbye Cat, hello Dawson. Still need a PR/KR and stability/consistency at P and LS.

The Cardinals have a plan. None of us can say if it is going to work but it is a plan.

 

[Ohcrap75]

I unfortunately have to agree Mitch. I feel like this team is in no man's land right now. An average team a year ago that has taken a step back, but still signing vets like Bethea trying to pretend that we are still trying to contend. Instead of taking it in the pants this year and starting the rebuild, we are going to waste another season being mediocre. Sad when the Browns have a better module for success right now!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Sad when the Browns have a better module for success right now!

Till module = wins, I don't buy that for a second.

 

[Mitch]

I unfortunately have to agree Mitch. I feel like this team is in no man's land right now. An average team a year ago that has taken a step back, but still signing vets like Bethea trying to pretend that we are still trying to contend. Instead of taking it in the pants this year and starting the rebuild, we are going to waste another season being mediocre. Sad when the Browns have a better module for success right now!

Funny how you brought up the Browns, OC75. I was just thinking today whether it would be more exciting to be a Browns' fan right now. Not that I or you ever would. But, I can say this for the Browns right now, even before their 24 draft picks the next two year, they have built an awesome offensive line. That much already is in place.

 

[Mitch]

I always read your analysis and enjoy. I disagree with the Ellington assessment. He knows the system and he can be a productive back. We are in a position to be selective with the pieces added at this point. We can't discount the Jones signing. That was huge and something the Cards have been unable or willing to get done in the past. Dansby over Minter any day of the week and I think there is a reason that TJ and DJ were good. When you have a shutdown corner like PP it allows others to look better. I also think that both of those young guys knew they were playing for those contracts and that can take a burden on a locker room(no proof they caused any problems). Bethea will play better than he did in San Fran. and I don't see us missing a beat especially if TM stays healthy. I liked both but not at the contracts they received...even more so with Cooper. CC, hmmmm, love the guy but not with that contract. There is a reason Nkemdiche was on the shelf and I expect him to take a huge stride this year. I am not seeing the sky falling yet and I see the 7-8-1 team as a 10-6 or 11-5 not a 4-12 or 5-11 team that got lucky.

LD---

Maybe I'm wrong but I always look at second contracts as a statement to the rest of the team. Andre Ellington has grossly under-achieved the last three years. He is one of the reasons why our STs stink, because you need guys who are active on game days and who are not full-time starters to contribute on STs. His kickoff returns last year were embarrassing. When the team re-signs him anyway, what does this tell the rest of the team?

 

[Ohcrap75]

Till module = wins, I don't buy that for a second.

Yes, the Cards are set up to win more games this season. But we are on our way down and the Browns are on the rise. They are doing a better job setting themselves up in the future. Cards are trying to hang on to something that isn't there.

 

[Mitch]

To overspend in the off season is what's laughable. I usually agree with you Mitch but I feel it's unfair to give up on the season because we didn't sign or woo any big time cry baby millionaires. If CC was all that and a true Cardinal he would've stayed. Cards stood their ground and CC is a Jag. A Jag dude come on. He got paid...

To overspend especially with the cap room all the other teams have is next to impossible. But I am hoping a trade or something happens to break the boredome of the off season. Peace.

I don't care about the boredom, RB. If we already had viable starters at RG, #2WR, #2 TE, DE, #2CB and FS, I would embrace the boredom. BA continues to insist that he doesn't count on rookies to play much (let alone start) their rookie years. FA is passing the Cardinals by. They still have $18+M in cap space. As Vince Lombardi would say, "what the hell is going on here?"

 

[Mitch]

The "Speedy" Jarvis Jones

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...arvis-jones-lackluster-during-georgia-pro-day

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1576884-why-jarvis-jones-looks-foolish-after-sub-par-pro-day

I tried to PM you, but you must have me blocked because it said i can't send a PM to you.

In short, you are trolling my posts. Every day you offer a terse, scornful critique, without ever once being respectful or supportive. What gives? I expect the disagreements, but when responses are 100% scornful and never once approving, that's trolling.

 

[football karma]

Im pretty "meh" on Ellington -- but the deal is emminently cut-able in training camp

and as Wolf pointed out this morning -- having Ellington around means that if DJ comes out of a game, the entire offensive game plan can still be run as Ellington is also a very good receiver out of the backfield

with that knowledge, my pov on the Ellington signing improved to "Meh+"

 

[GuernseyCard]

I tried to PM you, but you must have me blocked because it said i can't send a PM to you.

In short, you are trolling my posts. Every day you offer a terse, scornful critique, without ever once being respectful or supportive. What gives? I expect the disagreements, but when responses are 100% scornful and never once approving, that's trolling.

I enjoy your posts as much as the next person.

And disagreeing with some of your views is not trolling.

Jarvis Jones was and is slow and had he produced they would have picked up his 5th year option.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I don't agree with your analysis at all. I have always believed that you build your team through the Draft. You keep your core young players under contract and you supplement your roster via Free Agency. IMO the worst thing you can do is chase high priced FA who will 90% of the time never live up to the massive contracts that they receive.

The Cardinals offseason has gone almost exactly as I had predicted. The only thing that I wasn't expecting was how much money Jefferson would get in FA. Would have I liked to have had several of the players stay on the roster... Sure, but only for the right price.

Keim is building a team for the long haul. "All or nothing" was a catchy name for a TV show but it has never been the core philosophy of Keim's plan for the Cardinals.

I don't get grading every day of Free Agency. Seasons are not won the first day of Free Agency or even the first week of Free Agency. IMO the only thing worth grading is the final roster heading into week 1 of the regular season. So much can change from now until then.

 

[CardNots]

The Cardinals have a plan.

Defense - Regarding CC, that is why they drafted Nkemdiche last year and kept so many DL on the roster. They moved quickly to sign Bethea and reduced Branch's salary. They signed Dansby to replace Minter this year. Cooper was decent IMO but can be upgraded (we need a solid #2). They are counting on HB to step up in a big way and stay healthy this year.

Offense - They re-signed Gresham (I am not a fan) and AQ for continuity, so the offense should be better next year (same players but we need better execution). We still need another big WR this year. We also need to upgrade our back-up QB spot. Not a big deal if you are not really a playoff team but for a team that is going all in this year...you can't win with Stanton if Palmer goes down.

Special teams - Goodbye Cat, hello Dawson. Still need a PR/KR and stability/consistency at P and LS.

The Cardinals have a plan. None of us can say if it is going to work but it is a plan.

I'm with the above comments until after the draft.

 

[LittleDavis]

LD---

Maybe I'm wrong but I always look at second contracts as a statement to the rest of the team. Andre Ellington has grossly under-achieved the last three years. He is one of the reasons why our STs stink, because you need guys who are active on game days and who are not full-time starters to contribute on STs. His kickoff returns last year were embarrassing. When the team re-signs him anyway, what does this tell the rest of the team?

It was a one year deal. I don't consider that a second contract or anything more than a continuity signing.

 

[Lagerfilled]

I don't agree with your analysis at all. I have always believed that you build your team through the Draft. You keep your core young players under contract and you supplement your roster via Free Agency. IMO the worst thing you can do is chase high priced FA who will 90% of the time never live up to the massive contracts that they receive.

The Cardinals offseason has gone almost exactly as I had predicted. The only thing that I wasn't expecting was how much money Jefferson would get in FA. Would have I liked to have had several of the players stay on the roster... Sure, but only for the right price.

Keim is building a team for the long haul. "All or nothing" was a catchy name for a TV show but it has never been the core philosophy of Keim's plan for the Cardinals.

I don't get grading every day of Free Agency. Seasons are not won the first day of Free Agency or even the first week of Free Agency. IMO the only thing worth grading is the final roster heading into week 1 of the regular season. So much can change from now until then.

Bingo!!!

 

[Bodha]

I don't agree with your analysis at all. I have always believed that you build your team through the Draft. You keep your core young players under contract and you supplement your roster via Free Agency. IMO the worst thing you can do is chase high priced FA who will 90% of the time never live up to the massive contracts that they receive.

The Cardinals offseason has gone almost exactly as I had predicted. The only thing that I wasn't expecting was how much money Jefferson would get in FA. Would have I liked to have had several of the players stay on the roster... Sure, but only for the right price.

Keim is building a team for the long haul. "All or nothing" was a catchy name for a TV show but it has never been the core philosophy of Keim's plan for the Cardinals.

I don't get grading every day of Free Agency. Seasons are not won the first day of Free Agency or even the first week of Free Agency. IMO the only thing worth grading is the final roster heading into week 1 of the regular season. So much can change from now until then.

I agree with the sentiment that good teams build through the draft. But the problem emerges when your team whiffs the entire 2016 draft.

Here we are losing core players, and adding none because our drafts suck. It will be worse in 2018 when we lose CP and Larry.

Honestly looking at 2018 and beyond, whos our leader? David Johnson? He's our #1 weapon but hes not a leader. Hes not vocal.

Its a very big problem when you lose guys in FA, dont add any in FA, and then blow drafts.

 

[slanidrac16]

We need to go offense in the draft. We need to replace Floyd with a big WR ( Williams? ) Add a return threat. We still need to address a QBOF.
If we can return to a great offense like 2015 we will take a whole lot of pressure off the defense. We averaged 8 points a game less this year. That's HUGE. In today's NFL you need a dominant offense. It's just the way it is.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I agree with the sentiment that good teams build through the draft. But the problem emerges when your team whiffs the entire 2016 draft.

Here we are losing core players, and adding none because our drafts suck. It will be worse in 2018 when we lose CP and Larry.

Honestly looking at 2018 and beyond, whos our leader? David Johnson? He's our #1 weapon but hes not a leader. Hes not vocal.

Its a very big problem when you lose guys in FA, dont add any in FA, and then blow drafts.

Yeah that cannot happen. You have to be successful with your drafts and UDFA as well.


I still think it is too early to say they completely whiffed on the 2016 draft.

They got Chandler Jones out of their 2nd round pick. So you got an impact player with that pick even though he wasn't actually drafted by the Cardinals.

Nkemdiche is still a question mark but there is still hope.

Brandon Williams is a hot mess. Not sure why the Cardinals thought he would be able to handle the starting job heading into the season. He was just way too raw and is still a huge question mark.

I really like Boehm at C/G and Toner at guard shows promise but needs to add strength.

So for me all is not lost with the 2016 draft. You have to give your later round picks a chance to develop. Even Harlan Miller showed some flashes at CB late in the year.

 

[Mitch]

I don't agree with your analysis at all. I have always believed that you build your team through the Draft. You keep your core young players under contract and you supplement your roster via Free Agency. IMO the worst thing you can do is chase high priced FA who will 90% of the time never live up to the massive contracts that they receive.

The Cardinals offseason has gone almost exactly as I had predicted. The only thing that I wasn't expecting was how much money Jefferson would get in FA. Would have I liked to have had several of the players stay on the roster... Sure, but only for the right price.

Keim is building a team for the long haul. "All or nothing" was a catchy name for a TV show but it has never been the core philosophy of Keim's plan for the Cardinals.

I don't get grading every day of Free Agency. Seasons are not won the first day of Free Agency or even the first week of Free Agency. IMO the only thing worth grading is the final roster heading into week 1 of the regular season. So much can change from now until then.

I would feel more at ease with the build your team through the draft philosophy if (a) we drafted better; (b) the coaches developed the draftees better.

I never said we should overpay for UFAs. I would not have given CC $15m, nor TJ $9M, nor MC $8M in guaranteed money.

But I sure as heck would have given DJS 3/$13.5M and Darren Fells 1/$1.5M.
,
This also is an unusual year for Cardinals' UFAs...having 19 of them. We have lost 5 starters, and have only signed 2 replacements.

So, as of right now our #2 CB is Justin Bethel or Brandon Williams, our FS is Tyvon Branch, our starting DEs are Rodney Gunter and Josh Mauro, our RG is Evan Boehm, our #2 TE is Troy Niklas, our #3 OLB is Kareem Martin, our #2 WR is J.J. Nelson, our #1 return man is Britten Golden, etc.

BA reiterated at the Combine that he no longer thinks or expects that rookies can make significant contributions in year 1...which doesn't quite jive with the build through the draft policy if you are not filling immediate needs with UFAs or trade pieces.

The biggest splash signing has been TE Jermaine Gresham at $7M a year---which seems excessive, but at least we have a starting caliber TE for 2017.

I think I will stop grading---that's a good point.

 

[Mitch]

As for the All or Nothing, Mad Card, if there ever was a season for All or Nothing it is this year. This is Fitz's swan song and guess where the Super Bowl is? Minnesota.

It's sad to me that we are taking steps backward instead of forward. Right now on paper, we will struggle to beat the Rams and 49ers for second place in the NFC West. There are too many holes and the direction seems to be to try to address them long term in the draft.

 

[BigRedRage]

Giving Fs because the cardinals are not overpaying for players they dont need makes the whole thread pointless IMO. You cant grade them daily when you dont know their strategy.

 

[Mitch]

Giving Fs because the cardinals are not overpaying for players they dont need makes the whole thread pointless IMO. You cant grade them daily when you dont know their strategy.

Thanks for the lecture. I think I will stop writing these "pointless" posts. Let someone else write them.