Days 4, 5 of FA Thoughts

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Lol @ Bettcher as HC.

 

[redheat]

If you hate this off-season just wait till next year when we will lose Palmer/fitz.

We seem to be snake bitten from last years all in and the coming rebuild next year. So it does seem like we are doing two things. Staying competitive while rebuilding.

I think we are doing it right though. Stock up on comp pics, get cap space, hold the fort with smart veterans, develop our young guys, focus on the draft and most importantly find a QB of the future.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I would feel more at ease with the build your team through the draft philosophy if (a) we drafted better; (b) the coaches developed the draftees better.

Look at the 2015 draft after they had a year to learn and Develop:

DJ Humphries: Vastly improved and was able to contribute this past season. He will only get better with experience. Could be our starting LT this season and hopefully for many more to come.

Markus Golden: Breakout year for the young pass rusher. He is one of the top three pass rushers from the 2015 draft.

David Johnson: Could be the best RB in the league. Best pick in the 2015 draft and the steal of the draft.

Rodney Gunter: Forced to Play his entire rookie season when Peters got hurt in the preseason. Wasn't much of a pass rusher but held his own in the middle and was stout against the run.

Shaq Riddick: Still a work in progress.

JJ Nelson: Really came on last year when injuries and illness set back Jaron and John Brown.

Gerald Christian: Last pick of the draft wasn't able to make a team and got poached by the Bills.


I think this is one of the better drafts I have seen recently. Three solid starters (Humphries, Golden, Johnson) with two more strong rotational guys (Nelson, Gunter). The Cardinals need to keep having drafts like this one!

 

[oaken1]

some people should never walk on to a car lot.... they leave way too much money on the table.

 

[Mitch]

Look at the 2015 draft after they had a year to learn and Develop:

DJ Humphries: Vastly improved and was able to contribute this past season. He will only get better with experience. Could be our starting LT this season and hopefully for many more to come.

Markus Golden: Breakout year for the young pass rusher. He is one of the top three pass rushers from the 2015 draft.

David Johnson: Could be the best RB in the league. Best pick in the 2015 draft and the steal of the draft.

Rodney Gunter: Forced to Play his entire rookie season when Peters got hurt in the preseason. Wasn't much of a pass rusher but held his own in the middle and was stout against the run.

Shaq Riddick: Still a work in progress.

JJ Nelson: Really came on last year when injuries and illness set back Jaron and John Brown.

Gerald Christian: Last pick of the draft wasn't able to make a team and got poached by the Bills.


I think this is one of the better drafts I have seen recently. Three solid starters (Humphries, Golden, Johnson) with two more strong rotational guys (Nelson, Gunter). The Cardinals need to keep having drafts like this one!

Good post. Can you offer your assessments of the 2014 and 2016 drafts as well?

 

[BigRedRage]

Thanks for the lecture. I think I will stop writing these "pointless" posts. Let someone else write them.

you could do that if you choose, I didnt say you posts are useless, I said grading them daily F ratings because they are not signing free agents is pointless. They obviously do not feel that they need big name FA acquisitions. Maybe to the strategy they have employed, they think they are getting an A? its not as simple as "they didnt sign anyone! F rating!"

 

[Bodha]

Yeah that cannot happen. You have to be successful with your drafts and UDFA as well.


I still think it is too early to say they completely whiffed on the 2016 draft.

They got Chandler Jones out of their 2nd round pick. So you got an impact player with that pick even though he wasn't actually drafted by the Cardinals.

Nkemdiche is still a question mark but there is still hope.

Brandon Williams is a hot mess. Not sure why the Cardinals thought he would be able to handle the starting job heading into the season. He was just way too raw and is still a huge question mark.

I really like Boehm at C/G and Toner at guard shows promise but needs to add strength.

So for me all is not lost with the 2016 draft. You have to give your later round picks a chance to develop. Even Harlan Miller showed some flashes at CB late in the year.

All the same, in all things there are rankings. In regards to the 2016 draft, the Cowboys are arguably #1. The Cardinals were dead last. This is supported by the fact the Cards rookies had the lowest snap count (and by a wide margin) of any NFL teams rookie class.

Do you give it a couple years to play out? Of course. Maybe in 2 years we see 2 pro bowlers out of this class.

But as of 3/14/17, our 2016 rookie class is dog poop.

 

[TheCardFan]

I would feel more at ease with the build your team through the draft philosophy if (a) we drafted better; (b) the coaches developed the draftees better.

It's a great point. However, Cleveland is stockpiling picks and that seems like a very good rebuilding strategy but they still have to pick the right players. That is and will always be the challenge. You have to be good and lucky (player is there when you pick) at times. Maybe 250 players get drafted each year and very few end up being pro-bowl players. A small amount become quality starters and the majority fight for their roster lives each year or get cut. Want to find a franchise QB? Good luck...there might be 1 per draft (average) but that is 1 out of 15 or so that get drafted each year. Very low hit rate.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Good post. Can you offer your assessments of the 2014 and 2016 drafts as well?

The 2014 draft:

Deone Buchanon: The Cardinals traded out of their spot to grab an extra 3rd rounder. In a draft that was week at safety they landed one of the best right before a run on the Safety position. However thanks to D Waste, the Cardinals coaching staff was forced to make a drastic move an transitioned Buchanon to ILB. It's a move that was so successful that other teams are now trying to mimic the "Dollar Backer".

Troy Nickedglass: A big TE who was supposed to be a great all around TE but hasn't been able to stay healthy for more than a few minutes. I'm surprised he is still on the team. I'd call this pick a bust.

Kareem Martin: A raw athletic DE who the Cardinals wanted to make an OLB. In the 2nd half of the 2016 season it appeared that the light bulb finally turned on for Martin. He will provide solid depth to Jones and Golden.

John Brown: The deep threat BA loves. He lit up his rookie season with several spectacular big plays. A strange illness set him back in 2016. Hopefully he gets that under control and can return to the big plays we saw the year before.

Logan Thomas: The Cardinals took a shot at a big strong armed QB to see if they could develop him. Unfortunately Thomas didn't have the field vision to be a NFL QB. I have no problem with the Cardinals looking for a QBOTF to groom and hope they keep looking.

Ed Stinson: Solid rotational guy on the DL. Provides depth.

Walt Powell: Good WR who couldn't find a home on a team that was stacked at WR. Ended up getting poached by the Bills.

I would call this a decent draft. Nickedglass and Thomas were the only whiffs.



As for the 2016 draft I think it is way too early to judge it. Need to see if any of the players improve from their rookie campaign.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't know why people are complaining about 2016 draft. It would have been for hard for any rookie to impact last year's very talented roster in year 1. Who was RN going to play over? Chandler Jones was the best player in the draft. Brandon Williams is raw. Boehm played at the end. Harlan Miller played at the end. Just because these guys didn't start from day 1, or have an impact from day 1, it's ridiculous to write off the class.

I can see 5 starters from the class in Nkemdiche, Boehm, Williams, Jones, and Miller. That's a pretty good draft if that happens. Who knows what will become of Toner?

 

[Cheesebeef]

As for the All or Nothing, Mad Card, if there ever was a season for All or Nothing it is this year. This is Fitz's swan song and guess where the Super Bowl is? Minnesota.

It's sad to me that we are taking steps backward instead of forward. Right now on paper, we will struggle to beat the Rams and 49ers for second place in the NFC West. There are too many holes and the direction seems to be to try to address them long term in the draft.

Okay... as disappointed as I am watching the losses on D with seemingly no moves to combat them overall, I think it's ridiculous to say we'll struggle with the Rams and Niners for second place. Those two teams are still ATROCIOUS and will be again this year. We're not anywhere near that drek.

 

[Mitch]

you could do that if you choose, I didnt say you posts are useless, I said grading them daily F ratings because they are not signing free agents is pointless. They obviously do not feel that they need big name FA acquisitions. Maybe to the strategy they have employed, they think they are getting an A? its not as simple as "they didnt sign anyone! F rating!"[/QUO

You said an F grade makes "the whole thread pointless."

I get it.

But, to me, re-signing RB Andre Ellington on Day 5 of FA after watching 5 starters depart and having only signed 2 replacements with the FA pool dwindling is an F. It's unacceptable. Guess who is visiting today? No one.

CB Davon House today re-

The 2014 draft:

Deone Buchanon: The Cardinals traded out of their spot to grab an extra 3rd rounder. In a draft that was week at safety they landed one of the best right before a run on the Safety position. However thanks to D Waste, the Cardinals coaching staff was forced to make a drastic move an transitioned Buchanon to ILB. It's a move that was so successful that other teams are now trying to mimic the "Dollar Backer".

Troy Nickedglass: A big TE who was supposed to be a great all around TE but hasn't been able to stay healthy for more than a few minutes. I'm surprised he is still on the team. I'd call this pick a bust.

Kareem Martin: A raw athletic DE who the Cardinals wanted to make an OLB. In the 2nd half of the 2016 season it appeared that the light bulb finally turned on for Martin. He will provide solid depth to Jones and Golden.

John Brown: The deep threat BA loves. He lit up his rookie season with several spectacular big plays. A strange illness set him back in 2016. Hopefully he gets that under control and can return to the big plays we saw the year before.

Logan Thomas: The Cardinals took a shot at a big strong armed QB to see if they could develop him. Unfortunately Thomas didn't have the field vision to be a NFL QB. I have no problem with the Cardinals looking for a QBOTF to groom and hope they keep looking.

Ed Stinson: Solid rotational guy on the DL. Provides depth.

Walt Powell: Good WR who couldn't find a home on a team that was stacked at WR. Ended up getting poached by the Bills.

I would call this a decent draft. Nickedglass and Thomas were the only whiffs.



As for the 2016 draft I think it is way too early to judge it. Need to see if any of the players improve from their rookie campaign.

The only two hits in this draft were Bucannon and Smoke, both of whom are coming off subpar years due to injury/illness.

Do not see what you see in Martin and Stinson, 3rd and 5th round busts thus far, imo. Martin (2016)---10 tackles, 1 sack, 2 FF. Stinson (2016)---6 tackles, 0 sacks, 0 FF. Hopefully the light bulbs will go on this year, especially now that we are not signing anyone.

But, I like your optimism and like you said the 2105 draft class is looking pretty good.

My own assessment of the 2016 draft thus far:

1. DT Robert Nkemdiche---hampered by ankle injury and slow assimilation of professional work habits. Looked overmatched in limited play.

2. DE Chandler Jones---got off to great start, faded in playoff stretch, then rallied for 3 sacks in last 2 games. Got monster 5 year contract at close to $17M per. if Jones delivers on that deal, this could be the best trade Steve Keim has made in trying to improve the defense.

3. CB Brandon Williams---super raw, inexperienced but physically talented cover man who looked lost in coverage and unfit to be able to play press bump and run (tough for any rookie CB). Great work ethic. Was very surprised to see that he didn't play well on STs---was billed as a good tackler and excellent STs player---but didn't see that at all from him in year one. The stage looked a little too bright for him as a rookie. But, we have seen 2nd year players adjust well to the limelight.

4. C Evan Boehm---has strong work ethic. Was never really give a shot to win starting C job. Filled in at RG and played decently, but does not look to have the feet to play guard and yet the coaches seem intent on keeping him there.

5. S Marqui Christian---now an LA Ram because Drew Butler had to stay another week to be the holder. With no viable FS on the roster as we speak, this hurts even more. Strange that AW's prize recruit was cut ahead of some players who were rarely ever active on game day and one, not at all, UDFA DT Olsen Pierre.

6. G Cole Toner---looked technically and athletically sound in pre-season. Was surprised he didn't get the nod over Boehm at RG late in the season. Coaches claim he needs to get stronger, but he sure looked plenty strong in pre-season. Evan Mathis has raved about him and his prospects at guard. Might wind up being the best pick of this draft, if the coaches let him play.

6. CB Harlan Miller---was cut, re-signed to PS, then elevated to roster. Played FS the last two games and made an nice interception on a poorly thrown flea flicker. Not sure if he has the speed and range and alley tackling ability to play more FS. But he does has upside as a tenacious, albeit slower than average cover CB, because he plays with good leverage and technique. Has ball skills.

 

[Chopper0080]

Personally, I think you paint the worst case scenario pretty accurately. That being said, I don't feel it is a likely scenario.

Re: the offense. It was a mid ranked offense without any consistency on the OL. Our WRs can't help but be more consistent this year. Anything we add will be more than we had last year.

Def
We lost the 102 or something ranked CB out of 112 per PFF. Not too tough to replace. ILB is better. OLB is same. DL worse. S is worse but a really good draft class.

I just see the impact that you do.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Mitch]

Okay... as disappointed as I am watching the losses on D with seemingly no moves to combat them overall, I think it's ridiculous to say we'll struggle with the Rams and Niners for second place. Those two teams are still ATROCIOUS and will be again this year. We're not anywhere near that drek.

The Rams defense is going to put our defense to shame. Wade Phillips is the best DC in the business, hands down. And the 49ers defense is quickly getting as good as ours. People are going to be surprised at how competitive both the Rams and the 49ers are going to be this year.

 

[TheCardFan]

The 2014 draft:

I would call this a decent draft. Nickedglass and Thomas were the only whiffs.

IMO, you can afford to whiff on a QB in the 5th round (not the 1st and hopefully not the 2nd).

Nickedglass is a major whiff, since he was a 2nd round pick. Could have had Garoppolo instead or David Carr vs Deone. Those are the whiffs that sting for years.

 

[DVontel]

The Rams defense is going to put our defense to shame. Wade Phillips is the best DC in the business, hands down. And the 49ers defense is quickly getting as good as ours. People are going to be surprised at how competitive both the Rams and the 49ers are going to be this year.

I'll somewhat give you the Rams just because of Aaron Donald alone, & even then, I just see them winning 6 games max, but please Mitch, you're not serious with the 49ers. That team is so devoided of talent on both sides of the ball, it's ridiculous.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I tried to PM you, but you must have me blocked because it said i can't send a PM to you.

In short, you are trolling my posts. Every day you offer a terse, scornful critique, without ever once being respectful or supportive. What gives? I expect the disagreements, but when responses are 100% scornful and never once approving, that's trolling.

That's not true. He might just disagree with you on every topic. There's no requirement for anyone to ever approve of what you say. Personally I'm glad he posted that. I had forgotten that he wasn't speedy at all.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think this is one of the better drafts I have seen recently. Three solid starters (Humphries, Golden, Johnson) with two more strong rotational guys (Nelson, Gunter). The Cardinals need to keep having drafts like this one!

I would actually go a step further. If humphries develops into a stud LT this is the type of draft that can propel a team, with the right subsequent moves, to a Super Bowl champion. If humohries becomes a stud that's three studs (with DJ and Golden) plus two very serviceable players in JJ and Gunter.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

All the same, in all things there are rankings. In regards to the 2016 draft, the Cowboys are arguably #1. The Cardinals were dead last. This is supported by the fact the Cards rookies had the lowest snap count (and by a wide margin) of any NFL teams rookie class.

Do you give it a couple years to play out? Of course. Maybe in 2 years we see 2 pro bowlers out of this class.

But as of 3/14/17, our 2016 rookie class is dog poop.

I think we may have thought of 2015 much lower too without the 2016 season. We would've thought hump sucked, golden had 4 sacks whoop-de-doo, DJ showed promise, jj wasn't a water pick, but we weren't jumping up and down about him, and gunter played pretty well. Certainly not as seemingly disastrous as 2016 draft, but not as seemingly platinum as we now, an additional year later, knownit to be. 2016 likely won't be the panacea that was 2015, but I say let's wait until the end of this year to judge.

Maybe nkemdiche pulls a hump.

Maybe Brandon Williams, with additional NFL training has his skill catch up to his athleticism.

Maybe Boehm takes over at c or g.

Maybe Harlan Miller is now being trained as a free safety (he acquitted himself quite well there the last couple games of the season). I don't understand why everyone is ignoring this possibility.

Maybe Toner is our new, improved, Watford.

I'm not expecting all (or any - but I do like the idea of Miller at FS) of this to occur, but we didn't necessarily see the steps/explosion of the entire 2015 class either.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The Rams defense is going to put our defense to shame. Wade Phillips is the best DC in the business, hands down. And the 49ers defense is quickly getting as good as ours. People are going to be surprised at how competitive both the Rams and the 49ers are going to be this year.

They're years away from being any good. Their offenses are among the worst 4 in the NFL and I'll match the Cards defense up against them any day of the week.

 

[Mitch]

That's not true. He might just disagree with you on every topic. There's no requirement for anyone to ever approve of what you say. Personally I'm glad he posted that. I had forgotten that he wasn't speedy at all.

If you watch this tape, you can see the closing speed I am talking about. Is he Ryan Shazier? No. But he has a burst to the football---always has.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[PJ1]

I would feel more at ease with the build your team through the draft philosophy if (a) we drafted better; (b) the coaches developed the draftees better.

I never said we should overpay for UFAs. I would not have given CC $15m, nor TJ $9M, nor MC $8M in guaranteed money.

But I sure as heck would have given DJS 3/$13.5M and Darren Fells 1/$1.5M.
,
This also is an unusual year for Cardinals' UFAs...having 19 of them. We have lost 5 starters, and have only signed 2 replacements.

So, as of right now our #2 CB is Justin Bethel or Brandon Williams, our FS is Tyvon Branch, our starting DEs are Rodney Gunter and Josh Mauro, our RG is Evan Boehm, our #2 TE is Troy Niklas, our #3 OLB is Kareem Martin, our #2 WR is J.J. Nelson, our #1 return man is Britten Golden, etc.

BA reiterated at the Combine that he no longer thinks or expects that rookies can make significant contributions in year 1...which doesn't quite jive with the build through the draft policy if you are not filling immediate needs with UFAs or trade pieces.

The biggest splash signing has been TE Jermaine Gresham at $7M a year---which seems excessive, but at least we have a starting caliber TE for 2017.

I think I will stop grading---that's a good point.

This should scare anyone. We would need 9 picks in the first three rounds to address these needs.

 

[Bodha]

I think we may have thought of 2015 much lower too without the 2016 season. We would've thought hump sucked, golden had 4 sacks whoop-de-doo, DJ showed promise, jj wasn't a water pick, but we weren't jumping up and down about him, and gunter played pretty well. Certainly not as seemingly disastrous as 2016 draft, but not as seemingly platinum as we now, an additional year later, knownit to be. 2016 likely won't be the panacea that was 2015, but I say let's wait until the end of this year to judge.

Maybe nkemdiche pulls a hump.

Maybe Brandon Williams, with additional NFL training has his skill catch up to his athleticism.

Maybe Boehm takes over at c or g.

Maybe Harlan Miller is now being trained as a free safety (he acquitted himself quite well there the last couple games of the season). I don't understand why everyone is ignoring this possibility.

Maybe Toner is our new, improved, Watford.

I'm not expecting all (or any - but I do like the idea of Miller at FS) of this to occur, but we didn't necessarily see the steps/explosion of the entire 2015 class either.

Alot of maybes. Im in support of waiting-to-see. But the statement "As of today 03/14/2017, the Cards had the worst 2016 draft class" is fact. What happens tomorrow or next week or next year is unknown. But today is known.

 

[Mitch]

I'll somewhat give you the Rams just because of Aaron Donald alone, & even then, I just see them winning 6 games max, but please Mitch, you're not serious with the 49ers. That team is so devoided of talent on both sides of the ball, it's ridiculous.

They're years away from being any good. Their offenses are among the worst 4 in the NFL and I'll match the Cards defense up against them any day of the week.

Check this out---as of today:

49ers offense---Kyle Shanahan as HC and OC

QB Brian Hoyer, Matt Barkley (both ex-Cardinals)
RB Carlos Hyde
FB Kyle Juszczyk
WR Pierre Garcon
WR Marquis Goodwin
WR Jeremy Kerley
TE Vance McDonald, Logan Paulsen
LT Joe Staley
LG Marcus Martin*
C Daniel Kilgore
RG Joshua Garnett
RT Trent Brown

* will be replaced by a UFA or rookie draft pick

That has the making of a good, solid offense. Hoyer knows Shanahan's system, which is a plus. His trio of WRs certainly match what the Cardinals currently have. Carlos Hyde is a bell cow RB---they will add a RB in the draft to have what Shanahan had in Atlanta with 2 RBs sharing the load. TE McDonald is good. LT Staley is a Pro Bowler. Kilgore is solid, RG Garnett from Stanford has big upside. RT Trent Brown enters 3rd year. The cupboard in not bare, by any means.

49ers' Defense:

DE DeForest Buckner
NT Quentin Dial or Earl Mitchell
DE Arik Armstead
OLB Ahmad Brooks
ILB NaVarro Bowman
ILB Malcom Smith
OLB Aaron Lynch
CB Trumaine Brock
SS Jacquiz Tartt
FS Eric Reed
CB Jimmy Ward

Lots of young talent here---Buckner, Dial, Amstead, Lynch, Brock, Tartt, Reed and Ward have upside, all of them. Without Campbell on our defense, their defense is pretty dang close to ours. They are better up front. We are better on the edges. In the middle I'd gibe them the edge because of Reed.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Check this out---as of today:

49ers offense---Kyle Shanahan as HC and OC

QB Brian Hoyer, Matt Barkley (both ex-Cardinals)
RB Carlos Hyde
FB Kyle Juszczyk
WR Pierre Garcon
WR Marquis Goodwin
WR Jeremy Kerley
TE Vance McDonald, Logan Paulsen
LT Joe Staley
LG Marcus Martin*
C Daniel Kilgore
RG Joshua Garnett
RT Trent Brown

* will be replaced by a UFA or rookie draft pick

That has the making of a good, solid offense. Hoyer knows Shanahan's system, which is a plus. His trio of WRs certainly match what the Cardinals currently have. Carlos Hyde is a bell cow RB---they will add a RB in the draft to have what Shanahan had in Atlanta with 2 RBs sharing the load. TE McDonald is good. LT Staley is a Pro Bowler. Kilgore is solid, RG Garnett from Stanford has big upside. RT Trent Brown enters 3rd year. The cupboard in not bare, by any means.

49ers' Defense:

DE DeForest Buckner
NT Quentin Dial or Earl Mitchell
DE Arik Armstead
OLB Ahmad Brooks
ILB NaVarro Bowman
ILB Malcom Smith
OLB Aaron Lynch
CB Trumaine Brock
SS Jacquiz Tartt
FS Eric Reed
CB Jimmy Ward

Lots of young talent here---Buckner, Dial, Amstead, Lynch, Brock, Tartt, Reed and Ward have upside, all of them. Without Campbell on our defense, their defense is pretty dang close to ours. They are better up front. We are better on the edges. In the middle I'd gibe them the edge because of Reed.

Sorry Mitch but that offense is putrid and full of castoffs. I will say the defense has some young talent but they better be letting off about 6 points a game or they'll be drafting top 2 again.