Chaplin
Better off silent
Again, was Ayton the one who fouled him every time? Ayton only had 2 personal fouls. Are you saying he fouled Zubac 4 times?
DeAndre Ayton: “I’m not struggling on defense”
- Thread starter sunsfan88
- Start date
- Joined
- May 14, 2002
- Posts
- 88,129
- Reaction score
- 39,698
I would submit that maybe part of Ayton's issue is he hasn't yet accepted or recognized he's not as good on defense as he could be? He's certainly not the first talented kid to come into the league and play harder on offense than defense, and in general for the guys who get considerably better at it, a huge key is them realizing I'm not a very good defender and working harder on it.
Ayton got better on defense at Arizona, I'm sure he will in the NBA too the issue is anybody who was aware of him coming up in HS and AAU understands the book on him then was not a good defender, so he's had this reputation for awhile.
Still has a chance to be a great player if he learns to consistently play hard.
Ayton got better on defense at Arizona, I'm sure he will in the NBA too the issue is anybody who was aware of him coming up in HS and AAU understands the book on him then was not a good defender, so he's had this reputation for awhile.
Still has a chance to be a great player if he learns to consistently play hard.
SactownSunsFan
Welcome to the Age of Ayton
Yep. He's late on rotations quite often, and there are times when he can make up for that by giving a little more effort (like going up from behind to block a layup) but instead gives up on the play for an easy score.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Posts
- 92,047
- Reaction score
- 70,109
i've seen this so many times and wondered why he doesn't even bother to just put a hand up at least.
here's my issue with Ayton. I knew he wasn't going to be a defensive beast this season. But in a rookie season as a number 1 pick with a guy with all his talent, size and athleticism we haven't seen more than probably ONE game where we saw him just dominate a game defensively. Asking for just a handful of those games isn't too much to ask to make a believer that one day he'll be a good defensive player in the middle of the D that you can build around.
And I place blame both on Ayton and our coaching staff for that. It's not an Igor Or situation. It's both.
Most disappointing... he's now played over half a season and I've yet to really see much progress from him. Or really anyone on the team except maybe JJ, but that's only because he was so atrocious early in the season. i get that we're not good. what I don't get is seemingly ZERO progress as a team on the whole. That is truly disheartening.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Actually disagree a little bit. There weren't many, but in most of the wins we have, he played damn good defense. That is one of the most frustrating things about this team--we've seen what they CAN do, but it's so rare it's easy to forget.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Posts
- 92,047
- Reaction score
- 70,109
he's played good defense in some wins no doubt, but I'm talking about a dominating defensive performance. One or two of those games where you are completely taken aback by a performance that totally changed the game. asking for one or two of those in his rookie season just shouldn't be too much to ask. And blame for that lies at both his and Igor's feet.
I take it back... he had one 3 game streak where he was putting up 22/17 when we somehow won 4 of 5, but even there, he was giving up huge points to long-time benchers on Washington.
I just think he's the type of guy that's going to need a coach who knows how to get through to him to get the most out of his potential. He's not the best self-starter and not the toughest cookie in the bunch and I am beyond dubious Igor knows which buttons to push to get him there.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Washington, to me, was the one game I remember the most because of how much he was used as a help defender up top and the Washington guards feasted on it. And Igor never adjusted.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
He is a young kid who's always been taller, stronger, longer, and more skilled than his competition. He's never been known for his defense and his drive/ motor. It's gonna take him a while to figure it out. That's not Igor's fault, nor is it even Ayton's fault. Big men are notoriously slow to develop and figure things out. That's just how it is with a kid like Ayton.
Think about Doncic for a second- he's used to being the youngest, the slowest, the (physically) weakest player because that's what he's been every time his career took the next step. He's figured out how to be successful years ago because he had ten years to do so. Ayton is the complete opposite. He's always dominated without having to try or work hard. He doesn't know how to do his thing when everyone he plays against is good. In the NBA, everybody is good. Even scrubs are better than what he faced in High School or College.
Ayton will figure it out just like Luka figured it out. Is he ever going to be a defensive stopper? Probably not, but I guarantee you he will be a hell of a lot better than he is now. I was objective before the draft, and Ayton is exceeding my expectations. He is playing better than any reasonable person expected him to play.
This also goes beyond Ayton- it's THE main problem for the whole team. None of them- Ayton, JJ, Oubre, Bridges, Melton, Okobo, and even Booker are fully developed players. There is a reason Suns try Ariza, Anderson, and Canaan for so long at the start of the year. Developed NBA players are better and smarter than rookies, sophomores, or third or fourth-year players. JJ has different strengths and weaknesses than Ayton, but the principle is the same. He is good at A, B, and C, but sucks at D, E, and F. Each of them has holes in their games. That's why the team sucks.
Ayton is not a particularly flawed player- he is just in the early stages of his development.
Think about Doncic for a second- he's used to being the youngest, the slowest, the (physically) weakest player because that's what he's been every time his career took the next step. He's figured out how to be successful years ago because he had ten years to do so. Ayton is the complete opposite. He's always dominated without having to try or work hard. He doesn't know how to do his thing when everyone he plays against is good. In the NBA, everybody is good. Even scrubs are better than what he faced in High School or College.
Ayton will figure it out just like Luka figured it out. Is he ever going to be a defensive stopper? Probably not, but I guarantee you he will be a hell of a lot better than he is now. I was objective before the draft, and Ayton is exceeding my expectations. He is playing better than any reasonable person expected him to play.
This also goes beyond Ayton- it's THE main problem for the whole team. None of them- Ayton, JJ, Oubre, Bridges, Melton, Okobo, and even Booker are fully developed players. There is a reason Suns try Ariza, Anderson, and Canaan for so long at the start of the year. Developed NBA players are better and smarter than rookies, sophomores, or third or fourth-year players. JJ has different strengths and weaknesses than Ayton, but the principle is the same. He is good at A, B, and C, but sucks at D, E, and F. Each of them has holes in their games. That's why the team sucks.
Ayton is not a particularly flawed player- he is just in the early stages of his development.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
Yes chap, that’s ezactly what I’m saying. Great post.
Ayton sucked on him last night. Period.
Rereading that perhaps a poor choice of words
Last edited:
Chaplin
Better off silent
Thanks. Happy Valentine’s Day!
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
Ha. You too!
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 36,867
- Reaction score
- 16,668
Until your edit I was going to ask you if you were sure you were watching basketball.
Man in the first quarter Hassan Whiteside was feasting off offensivee rebounds and put backs. I noticed most of the time Ayton would challenge Whiteside shot with his arms going straight up, which is technically sound. But he never leaves his feet to challenge a shot, which is fine.
Ayton is not a rim protecter, and I can live with that.
Ayton is not a rim protecter, and I can live with that.
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
The scouting report is out and everyone knows it. They know he won’t contest shots consistently and won’t risk a foul or getting dunked on.
It is frustrating to watch, that is for sure.
slinslin
Welcome to Amareca
Talk about being full of it.
Over the last 2 months Aytons defended FG% at the rim has been elite level
http://arizonasports.com/story/1853...sary-deandre-ayton-is-improving-without-them/
slinslin
Welcome to Amareca
Almost all of Whitesides production was off of Ayton being forced to switch on a driver which allowed Whiteside to get position.
Phrazbit
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2011
- Posts
- 20,363
- Reaction score
- 11,456
Agreed. Watching the games I see Ayton doing a lot of switches and trying to cover ground. Granted, he isn't throwing himself infront of guys who are given a clear path to the rim, but, typically, the only result in today's NBA would be him getting slapped with a foul.
Our defensive "system" has us switching on most pick plays, I can't really blame Ayton for an opposing big's production when the opposition is running plays designed to pull Ayton out of the lane.
So we are the worst rebounding team in the NBA and we are focusing on turning our best rebounder into a 3pt shooter.
Please help me understand this thinking. I'm not trying to bash Igor, I really don't understand why this would make sense.
Please help me understand this thinking. I'm not trying to bash Igor, I really don't understand why this would make sense.
Where are you getting the idea that we're turning him into a 3pt shooter?
That doesn't say they're incorporating that into the gameplan. It's being done after practice so I don't see how Ayton practicing 3's on his own time is an indication of how he'll be used going forward. If they truly planned on making him a 3pt shooter then why wouldn't he being working on that during practice instead?
There used to be a lot of talk of Amare shooting 3's after practice and when he was rehabbing from microfracture but that didn't really change how he was used. He didn't start jacking up 3's during games. So until Ayton starts shooting 3's in games, I don't think we need to worry about it.
Why would Ayton spend any time working on anything he doesn't intend to apply on the court? More to my concern is that he is working on something that will take him further from the basket. He should be working with a big man coach on positioning and defense under the basket.
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
You can have your “reasonably accurate” stats. He needs to get off his damn heels when smaller players attack the rim.
Sure, it would be great if he was doing more to help better himself around the rim but it's on his own time so he can do whatever he wants. I'm glad the Suns aren't wasting time during their practice having him do that.
Your initial question of why Igor would have him do that is incorrect because there's no indication Igor is requesting him work on his 3pt shooting. I think you're making this out to be more than it is.
