DeAndre Ayton: “I’m not struggling on defense”

[taz02]

We need a leader. Having a great teacher is very valuable but without leadership we are going nowhere.

 

[GatorAZ]

Ayton has had games with better numbers but these last few have been as impactful as we’ve seen him.

 

[Mainstreet]

OK. I understand that people are frustrated that situations like this exist, but before Igor came, he was considered exactly that guy. He was considered the BEST guy in the business for teaching and guiding young players and that reputation was developed over 17 years in the league. I know its common habit when the students aren't learning fast enough to blame the teachers. But I would hate to fire a good teacher, get a worse teacher and then find out that the problem was slow students.

It's amazing how much better the Suns play when they get at least average point guard play.

Tyler Johnson has given glimpses of how improving only one position benefits the team.

I'm not completely sold on Igor but he has shown enough that I want to see what he can do given the right tools. Kudos to Joe Prunty for the great scouting report on the Bucks.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Johnson's shooting has been hot and cold but his defense has been steady and more importantly he has taken care of the ball. Sure, I get frustrated at the team's inability to get the ball into Ayton's hand at times, but live ball turnovers would be worse.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That's not entirely accurate. Who valued him as the best in the business? Seems to me the market was very small for Igor in the NBA. I didn't see any bidding wars happening over our coach. Second, it doesn't matter what people "thought".

The NBA is full of coaches some people "thought" would be the best for something. That doesn't mean what people thought were correct.

Here is my thing. When I look at a team that isn't completely devoid of talent. Has some unique players like Booker and said coach really hasn't brought anything to the table? There is a problem. He just helped the Suns set a new record in futility.

If Igor had been bringing anything to the table I would be happy with that. I just don't see it.

He had a 17 year history of teaching young players as an assistant coach and was considered somewhat of a savant at it. I am not making that up.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It is pretty clear that the type of defense we WANT Ayton to play, and the type of defense HE wants to play are quite different. He seems to really love the challenge to playing the other team's best big, even if it is a very mobile big like LeBron, one on one. It gets his juices going. Hanging back, switching off and guarding the rim, seems to confuse him.

He should be able to do the latter, but cannot seem to do it well for now. I am for putting him in the best defensive role for him to succeed, just like he has done the last two games, and then adding to his defensive skills over time. That would mean playing pf on defense most nights.

 

[JCSunsfan]

this is such an odd thing for a C to not know how to do... especially for a guy who's offense comes very naturally. hoping we get a big man coach who can really make a difference here. He's got to get better at the rim.

He is so open, and just "out there" about this stuff. You are right, he should know how to do this, but his candidness is really refreshing.

 

[Covert Rain]

He had a 17 year history of teaching young players as an assistant coach and was considered somewhat of a savant at it. I am not making that up.

Hold on. I never questioned his resume. You are completely missing my point. TONS of coaches with solid resumes have come to the NBA. It doesn't mean in translates to the NBA. It doesn't mean they make a good NBA coach.

My point was only that he wasn't a coach that tons of teams were in bidding wars for. It doesn't mean that other teams regarded him the same way the Suns did. So far the evidence seems to indicate he is not a good coach.

 

[Ronin]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It is pretty clear that the type of defense we WANT Ayton to play, and the type of defense HE wants to play are quite different. He seems to really love the challenge to playing the other team's best big, even if it is a very mobile big like LeBron, one on one. It gets his juices going. Hanging back, switching off and guarding the rim, seems to confuse him.

He should be able to do the latter, but cannot seem to do it well for now. I am for putting him in the best defensive role for him to succeed, just like he has done the last two games, and then adding to his defensive skills over time. That would mean playing pf on defense most nights.

Is seems to be the case. He might just be a weirdly unique player in being a 7 footer who shows better perimeter defense than as a rim protector. The last two games certainly trend in that direction.

Makes me wonder what’s the optimal running mate for him at PF. Do we need a traditional rim protector or do we just need a rugged rebounder and have a scrambling defense sans shotblocker. Would be pretty unique.

 

[SunnyBaller]

Is seems to be the case. He might just be a weirdly unique player in being a 7 footer who shows better perimeter defense than as a rim protector. The last two games certainly trend in that direction.

Makes me wonder what’s the optimal running mate for him at PF. Do we need a traditional rim protector or do we just need a rugged rebounder and have a scrambling defense sans shotblocker. Would be pretty unique.

Zions the optimal running mate , but if Ayton wants to be a perimeter defender then they need someone whose gonna stay back and be a force on the boards

 

[sunsfan88]

Is seems to be the case. He might just be a weirdly unique player in being a 7 footer who shows better perimeter defense than as a rim protector. The last two games certainly trend in that direction.

Makes me wonder what’s the optimal running mate for him at PF. Do we need a traditional rim protector or do we just need a rugged rebounder and have a scrambling defense sans shotblocker. Would be pretty unique.

We need someone who is a good rebounder.

The Bucks last night had 18 offensive rebounds. And it wasn’t Ayton’s fault, our weak side rebounding in general is just garbage.

Constantly, one of our SFs is being tasked with having to box out the opposing team’s C and the opposing teams generally take advantage of this. It’s how Javale McGee went 10 for 10 in the game against the Lakers as well.

If Bender was a good rebounder, he would be the ideal solution because he has good rim protecting instincts and also is improving his 3pt shot.

 

[95pro]

The backcourt lineup of our has been pretty long lately:

Ayton, Bender and Oubre. And they're not so slow like Kanter, Len etc.

 

[slinslin]

Is seems to be the case. He might just be a weirdly unique player in being a 7 footer who shows better perimeter defense than as a rim protector. The last two games certainly trend in that direction.

Makes me wonder what’s the optimal running mate for him at PF. Do we need a traditional rim protector or do we just need a rugged rebounder and have a scrambling defense sans shotblocker. Would be pretty unique.

Jesus fricking christ

Ayton is allowing the same defended FG%within 6ft as Gobert and Embiid since new years. And its not like he is defending less shots really.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Hold on. I never questioned his resume. You are completely missing my point. TONS of coaches with solid resumes have come to the NBA. It doesn't mean in translates to the NBA. It doesn't mean they make a good NBA coach.

My point was only that he wasn't a coach that tons of teams were in bidding wars for. It doesn't mean that other teams regarded him the same way the Suns did. So far the evidence seems to indicate he is not a good coach.

Dude. He has been IN the NBA coaching for 17 years. He did not just come to the NBA.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Jesus fricking christ

Ayton is allowing the same defended FG%within 6ft as Gobert and Embiid since new years. And its not like he is defending less shots really.

That's interesting. Where did you get that stat.

It is true that there is more to defense than blocked shots.

 

[taz02]

Is it normal to be an assistant coach that long (17 years) without being promoted to head coach?

I really don't know, but it seems to me, the type of person that would make an excellent head coach (aggressive leader that has to win and be the best) would grow tired of being an assistant well before the 17 year mark.

Are there any examples of a guy who was an assistant for 15+ years and turned into a great coach?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Is it normal to be an assistant coach that long (17 years) without being promoted to head coach?

I really don't know, but it seems to me, the type of person that would make an excellent head coach (aggressive leader that has to win and be the best) would grow tired of being an assistant well before the 17 year mark.

Are there any examples of a guy who was an assistant for 15+ years and turned into a great coach?

Let’s remember that he’s the first foreign born head coach. So he’s actually a trailblazer despite the 17 years. It’s not like what he’s accomplished is commonplace and he was an outlier for it taking so long. On the contrary he’s the first of his kind, so to speak.

 

[Proximo]

That's interesting. Where did you get that stat.

It is true that there is more to defense than blocked shots.

I don't doubt it.

Ayton's man defense is really good. It's his help defense that is terrible.

Which is I guess the thinking of having him guard lebron and Giannis in the last two games. It kind of works with Bender because he is actually a much better help defender.

 

[Covert Rain]

Dude. He has been IN the NBA coaching for 17 years. He did not just come to the NBA.

Head coach!? I am talking head coach. My comment about coaches coming into the NBA was a general comment. I should have made that clear. Lots of guys get hear coaching jobs with solid resumes before getting a HC job.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Head coach!?

it was blatantly obvious that's what you meant.

 

[Covert Rain]

it was blatantly obvious that's what you meant.

OK. Thought it was me.

 

[Hoop Head]

Is it normal to be an assistant coach that long (17 years) without being promoted to head coach?

I really don't know, but it seems to me, the type of person that would make an excellent head coach (aggressive leader that has to win and be the best) would grow tired of being an assistant well before the 17 year mark.

Are there any examples of a guy who was an assistant for 15+ years and turned into a great coach?

In addition to being the 1st foreign born NBA coach he's also just 47 years old. When he entered the league he wasn't quite 30 yet and that was as an assistant to Larry Brown. Considering he didn't play in the NBA it's unusual for a foreign player to get any sort of coaching gig in the NBA that young. It was also for one of the best coaches in the league at the time. It wasn't until the last couple of years that teams became more open to hiring head coaches under 40. So it's not hard to see why he was an assistant for so long. His first 10 years or so he probably wasn't ever considered because of his age.

 

[BC867]

He had a 17 year history of teaching young players as an assistant coach and was considered somewhat of a savant at it. I am not making that up.

You hit the nail on the head. With 17 years of assistant coach experience, he is a career assistant coach. And for a reason.

He is not a leader or figurehead. And he has neither the credentials nor personality to knock sense into the mind of a meddling owner.

JC, can you really imagine Igor sitting in Sarver's office saying, "Robert, this is what you need to provide for me to get the job done."?

I don't think there is anyone on this board who can imagine that. Maybe there is no one. But Igor is at the bottom of the list. Isn't that why the lifer assistant coach was hired?

The record shows that it was either to save money or surround himself with underlings without the credentials to challenge his running amuck.

 

[Hoop Head]

He is not a leader or figurehead. And he has neither the credentials nor personality to knock sense into the mind of a meddling owner.

Believe it or not but telling the teams owner to kick rocks is not a job requirement of any NBA coach and doesn't make one a good or bad coach.

You always talk about how being a coach is like being a manager and you know good management. What happens to the manager that tells their companies owner to piss off?

I honestly believe you would celebrate an 0-82 season so long as the coach bashed Sarver at every opportunity.