Deandre Ayton discussion

[TJ]

I don't feel bad for Grizz fans, they still think JJJ is better than Ayton so they must be happy with it. That Kings pick is just brutal, and all because Divac didn't like Luka's dad.

I was giving Bailey the benefit of the doubt over the past season, but having paid attention to the dad and his little brother, it’s evident he doesn’t have the focus or people around him to help take his game to anything more than a decent starter.

As for Luka, he’s approaching James Harden territory. Phenomenal offensive talent, but doesn’t have the work ethic to take care of his body, considers defense optional, and likes the extracurriculars just as much as Harden. As much crap as people give the Suns for passing on Doncic, not sure how much tolerance this fan base would have about his antics.

 

[Raindog]

The irony is that a few years before, Bagley was the guy all the scouts and web hoop gurus were saying was the can't miss next Lebron.

Yeah... just like Jabari Parker was the next Lebron... and then Andrew Wiggins was.

That's why I am VERY skeptical about Emoni Bates, and frankly am more sure he won't be than he will be.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Thanks for looking out. Been a really rough 6-8 weeks for the family and have had to allocate my time taking care of some personal crises just to stay afloat. Have missed more than half of the playoff games on TV, including Game 1 of this series.

I'm sorry to hear that and not just because you've missed out on some great performances by Ayton. Hope your crises are behind you.

 

[Hoop Head]

I swear ESPN seems to follow this thread and writes articles about what has been discussed here after each win lately. Here's today's piece about how Ayton was the right #1 pick for the Suns.

This was posted 2 hours ago. Unlike the last article, this is NOT an insider article so everyone should check it out.

Espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31689747/nba-playoffs-2021-why-deandre-ayton-was-right-no-1-pick-phoenix-suns

 

[Hoop Head]

Thanks for looking out. Been a really rough 6-8 weeks for the family and have had to allocate my time taking care of some personal crises just to stay afloat. Have missed more than half of the playoff games on TV, including Game 1 of this series.

Hopefully things start looking up for you and you're able to enjoy this run a little more in the near future.

 

[Lefty]

I swear ESPN seems to follow this thread and writes articles about what has been discussed here after each win lately. Here's today's piece about how Ayton was the right #1 pick for the Suns.

This was posted 2 hours ago. Unlike the last article, this is NOT an insider article so everyone should check it out.

Espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31689747/nba-playoffs-2021-why-deandre-ayton-was-right-no-1-pick-phoenix-suns

I already knew that.

 

[Mainstreet]

This Deandre Ayton fellow. He might have been worth the #1 draft pick.

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[Dr. Jones]

I was giving Bailey the benefit of the doubt over the past season, but having paid attention to the dad and his little brother, it’s evident he doesn’t have the focus or people around him to help take his game to anything more than a decent starter.

As for Luka, he’s approaching James Harden territory. Phenomenal offensive talent, but doesn’t have the work ethic to take care of his body, considers defense optional, and likes the extracurriculars just as much as Harden. As much crap as people give the Suns for passing on Doncic, not sure how much tolerance this fan base would have about his antics.

The dude is a first team All-NBA'er...... In his third season! At the age of 22!

IDC about any of that other stuff. Those types of talents don't grow on trees bro.

With that being said..... I am now comfortable with the fact that DA was the right guy for us in that moment. And the right guy for us long term.

Just don't devalue Luka. The guy is going to be a top 3 player in the league in 2 years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The dude is a first team All-NBA'er...... In his third season! At the age of 22!

IDC about any of that other stuff. Those types of talents don't grow on trees bro.

With that being said..... I am now comfortable with the fact that DA was the right guy for us in that moment. And the right guy for us long term.

Just don't devalue Luka. The guy is going to be a top 3 player in the league in 2 years.

Agree. Ayton has really grown into his role in the postseason. And he’s got so much more upside. No reason to denigrate a clearly superior player like luka in attempts to artificially puff up Ayton when there’s no need to do so. Ayton’s okay stands on its own this postseason.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Agree. Ayton has really grown into his role in the postseason. And he’s got so much more upside. No reason to denigrate a clearly superior player like luka in attempts to artificially puff up Ayton when there’s no need to do so. Ayton’s okay stands on its own this postseason.

That line is starting to blur a bit for me. Basketball is played on both ends and while Luke certainly has a greater impact on offense (Ayton is still impactful on that end, but just not near the level of Luka) Ayton is a far more impactful player on the defensive end of the floor. If you compare the overall game impact of Luka having 30/10/10 and Ayton in a game like last night I would argue the overall impact on the game is pretty even and maybe even skewed a little towards Ayton.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The irony is that a few years before, Bagley was the guy all the scouts and web hoop gurus were saying was the can't miss next Lebron.

Yeah... just like Jabari Parker was the next Lebron... and then Andrew Wiggins was.

That's why I am VERY skeptical about Emoni Bates, and frankly am more sure he won't be than he will be.

He could go straight from the pros to the Hall of Fame and still not be the next Lebron so I'm sure you're correct too. But yeah, they get it wrong often and sometimes they get it very wrong. At that age the analysis and projection isn't too far removed from WAG territory. Factors such as motivation and health play such a huge role in what a player develops into and those are largely unknown when you're talking about a High School player.

 

[AZman5103]

That line is starting to blur a bit for me. Basketball is played on both ends and while Luke certainly has a greater impact on offense (Ayton is still impactful on that end, but just not near the level of Luka) Ayton is a far more impactful player on the defensive end of the floor. If you compare the overall game impact of Luka having 30/10/10 and Ayton in a game like last night I would argue the overall impact on the game is pretty even and maybe even skewed a little towards Ayton.

I agree. I am incredibly impressed with Ayton's growth on defense. He is a stud...already. He played Joker as tough as you can. He is anchoring our defense, dominating the boards, and doing exactly what we are asking of him on offense. Get in position for easy shots, make easy shots....Repeat.

While Luca has shown he is a superstar.....he is a ball dominant, high volume scorer with good court vision. If your team doesnt have your "star"...then he's the choice all day long. You build around him.

We had that in Booker. We were already all in on him and committed....and I think people will agree he has stepped up and shown that the commitment was deserved. Adding Doncic would have forced either Booker or Doncic to change their game...and why do that?

Ayton gave us the ultimate compliment to Booker..and what will eventually be a 1A/1B situation because they can play so well together. Booker and Ayton in the pick and roll is already winning us games, and its only getting better. Either guys is capable of dropping 30 with ease.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That line is starting to blur a bit for me. Basketball is played on both ends and while Luke certainly has a greater impact on offense (Ayton is still impactful on that end, but just not near the level of Luka) Ayton is a far more impactful player on the defensive end of the floor. If you compare the overall game impact of Luka having 30/10/10 and Ayton in a game like last night I would argue the overall impact on the game is pretty even and maybe even skewed a little towards Ayton.

I think I worded that poorly. I didn’t mean superior to Ayton, I meant superior in a general sense. But I can understand why it wasn’t interpreted the way I meant it.

that said, you’d be hard pressed to find many who don’t still consider luka superior to Ayton. For our club with our construction? No. But in a general sense I think it would be close to consensus.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think I worded that poorly. I didn’t mean superior to Ayton, I meant superior in a general sense. But I can understand why it wasn’t interpreted the way I meant it.

that said, you’d be hard pressed to find many who don’t still consider luka superior to Ayton. For our club with our construction? No. But in a general sense I think it would be close to consensus.

Well sure, but those people tend to undervalue defensive impact. The general consensus will always be that Luka is the superior player unless Ayton makes a big jump offensively, but that's just the way it tends to be viewed.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I think I worded that poorly. I didn’t mean superior to Ayton, I meant superior in a general sense. But I can understand why it wasn’t interpreted the way I meant it.

that said, you’d be hard pressed to find many who don’t still consider luka superior to Ayton. For our club with our construction? No. But in a general sense I think it would be close to consensus.

It's really not appropriate to have that sort of debate...Their respective positions and offensive schemes pretty much make this an apples & oranges discussion. As a guard, the ball is always in Luka's hands. Not to mention that the Mavs' offense is designed to always run through him.
As a center, Ayton's touches are significantly less and the Suns' offense is not at all designed to run through him.

IMHO, the impact Ayton is now having on a game, given the above realities, puts him at Luka's level, if not even a tick above Luka in terms of efficiency and impact.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well sure, but those people tend to undervalue defensive impact. The general consensus will always be that Luka is the superior player unless Ayton makes a big jump offensively, but that's just the way it tends to be viewed.

Luka almost singlehandedly beat the Clippers with Kawhi. Ayton, who’s been fantastic, couldn’t will a team to Game 7 at this point.

or hell... maybe he could with the right coaching from the jump.

all I know is I am elated seeing the guy I desperately wanted 3 years starting to look like that guy on a consistent basis.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Ouchie didn't word it poorly. Luka is a clearly....... clearly superior player right now. And probably for the rest of their careers.

HOWEVER..... Ayton is the right guy for us, now and moving forward. Two different paths..... both are ok. And both players are going to be excellent at this rate.

 

[AZman5103]

Well sure, but those people tend to undervalue defensive impact. The general consensus will always be that Luka is the superior player unless Ayton makes a big jump offensively, but that's just the way it tends to be viewed.

I think its possible. He is so much better athletically than almost any big man in the league. His agility is next level...and I think he is starting to see in this series that he can jump over people, bang through people, and he still has a much better than average stroke for a big guy.


As the league keeps moving towards "positionless" basketball and jacking up 200 3's a game...there has to hit a tiltling point where Ayton just physically dominates the guys guarding him and your best play is to feed him the ball for dunks. I wont be surprised to see him come out of nowhere with a 50 point game next year.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ouchie didn't word it poorly. Luka is a clearly....... clearly superior player right now. And probably for the rest of their careers.

HOWEVER..... Ayton is the right guy for us, now and moving forward. Two different paths..... both are ok. And both players are going to be excellent at this rate.

Luka is likely a Super Star for his career but that is still downplaying Ayton a bit. Ayton is not just the right guy for us. He is a Star in these playoffs. He has put up one of the best stretches in NBA playoff history for a big man. Unless you want to argue we are not going to get that from him going forward Ayton is not just the "right guy for us".

I know comparing guys in a draft is what people do but they are two different position players being asked to do two completely different things. We have CP3 and we have Booker. Luka is being asked to be our CP3/Booker for his team. While Ayton is being asked to be the 3rd or 4th option on most nights and still putting up historical numbers. We have now had the Lakers, Nuggets and Clippers all talk about scheming for Ayton.

If Ayton ever develops consistent low post moves, jumper and starts creating his own shot? He could transition to the next level to be a Super star. Not by any means saying that happens but calling Ayton the "right guy for us" completely ignores what he is doing right now. He would be the right guy for any team putting up those numbers in the playoffs.

 

[Lefty]

Going to buy one of these.

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[Covert Rain]

Just remember folks, no one was more obnoxious about demanding we take Ayton over Doncic than the Cheese.

Right as usual!

Some of us were.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Going to buy one of these.

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Just dont make next round shirts yet.... lol

 

[Dback Jon]

Just remember folks, no one was more obnoxious than the Cheese.

Right as usual!

FTFY

 

[Cheesebeef]

Some of us were.

if you’re going to tell me you were more Vociferous about taking Ayton over Doncic than I was, I suggest you go back and look at those threads. I went obnoxious flamethrower at anyone who even suggested the possibility.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just read the RealGM General Board. Wow. Lots of bitter Clippers fans.

Ayton held Zubac on the inbounds.
Jae traveled on the inbounds.

Here is the real problem. Foster tried, but he could not force PG's free throws to go in. At some point there is nothing more you can do to fix a game.

 

[AZman5103]

Ayton is starting to really show the David Robinson comparison IMO. I think expecting HOF level play from anyone is hard...but I think a good year from Ayton will look alot like a good year from Robinson. Now it's just a matter of how many of those years can you string together without injury.

Here is Robinson's Stat Line from his 95 MVP Season:

1995

Games:82
Min: 36.8
Points: 25.0
FG%: 51.6
3Pt%: 33.3
Rebs: 12.2
Asst: 3.0
Steals: 1.4
Blocks: 3.3

Is there anyone that doubts a season like that is within Ayton's grasp after what we have seen in the playoffs? I'm sold! I think he can be a top 10 player in the NBA! I was more critical of his mental toughness than anyone, but it really seems like he has flipped a switch. My only concern now is does he keep the intensity once he gets 150 million bucks??