Deandre Ayton discussion

[Mainstreet]

I think wanting to vs. knowing how to is what Ayton is learning from Paul. Players like Ayton come into the NBA generally having NO understanding on what it takes to be a great player. Ayton is learning that. I'm legitimately nearly as excited about Ayton as I am about Kyler Murray. Pretty cool era of Phoenix sports right now, when the two most major teams have great young building blocks that could be franchise cornerstones for the next decade.

Adding Chris Paul to the equation not only improved the Suns immediately but has speeded up the development of Ayton and Booker. It's had a multiplier effect... actually on the whole team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

As I said...I think you mean sometimes. What do you mean those numbers don't mean anything?!? That makes zero sense. You can't get those numbers unless you have position. Nobody hands you those rebounds. Only a handful of big men have done what he has done. STOP.

Nobody is saying he shouldn't improve. He should. The fact that he is doing what he is doing at 24 is undeniable.

You’re not understanding what Krang means by “position.” He’s talking about sealing his man deep in the paint offensively when looking for an inlet pass. He’s not good at that. It’s just a fact.

 

[Finito]

His numbers prove you wrong unless you are saying that you can get timely stops against him. That's something else. He dominates in that area. Check out his shot charts and field goals made. Up until he got hurt nobody has shut him down this playoffs consistently in the paint.

I don’t understand what your getting at.

i responded to a post saying they wanted to see Ayton “battle” Giannis in the paint. Giannis doesn’t “battle” anyone in the paint that’s not his game he’s a slasher. The bucks offense is give it to Giannis at the top of the key spread out and let him drive. YES I am aware his points come in the paint but what your not getting is they come off drives and transitions this isn’t black and white. You are looking at it saying oh points in the paint but not looking at how he gets them.

as far as defense he guards perimeter guys. It’s going to Ayton vs Lopez not Giannis on both offense and defense

and yes he’s under performed in the playoffs the last 3 years when it matters most

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Totally agree, and I find myself wondering how much more effective the Suns would be if they tried to consistently get him involved instead of Booker chucking dumb shots up....

Outside of AD, I haven't worried about other teams bigs. Sure Jokic got his points and rebounds, but he did so at a pathetic efficiency rate.

Yeah I’m ready for the team to start forcing Ayton to take the next step by force feeding post opportunities for him. Just maybe not in the finals for those lessons.

 

[Muggz]

Lets trade him for cash.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don’t understand what your getting at.

i responded to a post saying they wanted to see Ayton “battle” Giannis in the paint. Giannis doesn’t “battle” anyone in the paint that’s not his game he’s a slasher. The bucks offense is give it to Giannis at the top of the key spread out and let him drive. YES I am aware his points come in the paint but what your not getting is they come off drives and transitions this isn’t black and white. You are looking at it saying oh points in the paint but not looking at how he gets them.

as far as defense he guards perimeter guys. It’s going to Ayton vs Lopez not Giannis on both offense and defense

and yes he’s under performed in the playoffs the last 3 years when it matters most

What I am saying is Giannis doesn't have to battle anyone in the paint (back against the basket). When you are as effective as he is getting into the paint and scoring it doesn't matter if he plays a traditional big man game. It would be a different story if people could consistently stop him. That hasn't happened this entire playoffs. Also, in the past the Bucks struggles have not been because of Giannis. They have had trouble getting him help.

 

[Covert Rain]

I posted this in another thread but just a taste of some of Ayton's playoff numbers so far:

-Ayton #2 Total Rebounding
-Ayton #2 Offensive Rebounding
-Ayton #3 Defensive Rebounding
-Ayton #3 Rebounds per Game
-Ayton #6 total blocks
-Ayton #8 blocks per game
-Ayton #3 FG%
-1st player in 38 years to shoot at least 50% in his first 14 career playoff games (70.9%)
-10th player in 21 years to record at least nine double-doubles in their first 14 career playoff games.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You’re not understanding what Krang means by “position.” He’s talking about sealing his man deep in the paint offensively when looking for an inlet pass. He’s not good at that. It’s just a fact.

Yep. You see small guy all the time pushing him around and him not sealing off defenders to get offensive touches or rebounds.

It's maddening. It's really the biggest weakness he has. He's horrible at it. I've seen PGs who are better than him at it.

But despite this, Ayton still is very good, and if he even became moderately good at it, he'd be a dominant center.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Lets trade him for cash.

Those trade Ayton for <blank> comments look pretty stupid now...

I don't think I'd trade Ayton for Doncic straight up right now. Doncic is a superstar, but Ayton's fit next to Booker and Paul is pretty special right now.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I posted this in another thread but just a taste of some of Ayton's playoff numbers so far:

-Ayton #2 Total Rebounding
-Ayton #2 Offensive Rebounding
-Ayton #3 Defensive Rebounding
-Ayton #3 Rebounds per Game
-Ayton #6 total blocks
-Ayton #8 blocks per game
-Ayton #3 FG%
-1st player in 38 years to shoot at least 50% in his first 14 career playoff games (70.9%)
-10th player in 21 years to record at least nine double-doubles in their first 14 career playoff games.

Cool story. He still sucks at getting position in the low post.

And I've had Ayton's back through thick and thin.

 

[Finito]

What I am saying is Giannis doesn't have to battle anyone in the paint (back against the basket). When you are as effective as he is getting into the paint and scoring it doesn't matter if he plays a traditional big man game. It would be a different story if people could consistently stop him. That hasn't happened this entire playoffs. Also, in the past the Bucks struggles have not been because of Giannis. They have had trouble getting him help.

then why are you even responding to my post as I’ve said before I was responding to a post where someone said they wanted to watch Ayton battle Giannis in the paint

they haven’t? Oh ok

 

[Covert Rain]

You’re not understanding what Krang means by “position.” He’s talking about sealing his man deep in the paint offensively when looking for an inlet pass. He’s not good at that. It’s just a fact.

No I understood that. I have said repeatedly that he needs to develop a back to the basket game. My comments were in response to him saying that his number don't matter. I call bull. He has been dominate in so many ways....and historically. To suggest otherwise is silly.

 

[Covert Rain]

Cool story. He still sucks at getting position in the low post.

And I've had Ayton's back through thick and thin.

So now he can't be dominate unless he does everything you want him to do? It means his numbers don't mean anything?

Now that is a cool story bro. LOL.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

No I understood that. I have said repeatedly that he needs to develop a back to the basket game. My comments were in response to him saying that his number don't matter. I call bull. He has been dominate in so many ways....and historically. To suggest otherwise is silly.

I think when he talks numbers he is talking mostly about offensive volume. We have seen countless posts talking about getting Ayton the ball down low, but it is much easier to do so when he is doing a good job of getting position and sealing off the defender.

Also not to be a stickler, but it is "dominant", not "dominate" just a pet peeve of mine, carry on, lol.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No I understood that. I have said repeatedly that he needs to develop a back to the basket game. My comments were in response to him saying that his number don't matter. I call bull. He has been dominate in so many ways....and historically. To suggest otherwise is silly.

I don’t think anyone is arguing he hasn’t been a stud.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think when he talks numbers he is talking mostly about offensive volume. We have seen countless posts talking about getting Ayton the ball down low, but it is much easier to do so when he is doing a good job of getting position and sealing off the defender.

I think that will come if he develops a back to the basket game. It's hard to command the ball down low when you have not really developed that part of your game yet. He is definitely not a guy you can throw the ball to down on the block 20 times a game as a primary offensive strategy. I think everybody knows that.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don’t think anyone is arguing he hasn’t been a stud.

No but twice I have posted what he is doing well and he tried to stupidly dismissed them because of one aspect of his game he needs work on. EVERYBODY knows his back to the basket game needs to develop. You and I have both said that repeatedly without dismissing the rest. It's silly to simply call it a "nice story". LOL.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think when he talks numbers he is talking mostly about offensive volume. We have seen countless posts talking about getting Ayton the ball down low, but it is much easier to do so when he is doing a good job of getting position and sealing off the defender.

Also not to be a stickler, but it is "dominant", not "dominate" just a pet peeve of mine, carry on, lol.

This may be Ayton's biggest weakness at the moment, being able to set up down low, seal off the defender and provide a reliable target for the entry pass. Now most of his scoring comes off motion such as pick and roll, cutting to the basket and cleaning up misses.

 

[Covert Rain]

This may be Ayton's biggest weakness at the moment, being able to set up down low, seal off the defender and provide a reliable target for the entry pass. Now most of his scoring comes off motion such as pick and roll and cutting to the basket.

Yep. It's why when the Clippers stopped our pick and roll or the dribble *********** it was a bad game for Ayton as well. We also did see some issues with the hands though when he did get the ball down low. Nothing like during the season but that still needs some work. He isn't always going to get an easy on target pass down low either.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yep. It's why when the Clippers stopped our pick and roll or the dribble *********** it was a bad game for Ayton as well. We also did see some issues with the hands though when he did get the ball down low. Nothing like during the season but that still needs some work. He isn't always going to get an easy on target pass down low either.

It seems like when Ayton gets the ball in motion the hands issue mostly disappears. Suns need to keep working on feeding him the ball where he feels comfortable. The rest will come with experience.

 

[Muggz]

If you compare his stats to all centers EVER. He's just below the greatest centers of all time AT 22 YEARS OLD. And is surpassing quickly.
He will never be a Shaq. But he CAN guard a guard if needed. Could Shaq?
He will never be a Jokic. But who needs that many assists from a center anyway. lol
He may never be Hakeem. But DA plays very similar to Hakeem with similar stats and a boatload of upside
The main difference between DA and the above?
He plays on a team with TWO ball hungry ALLSTARS and a complement of young shooters and vets looking to make a name for themselves. And STILL manages +20 and +10.
If we swapped him for say KAT. KAT would have 20 and 10 on this team and DA would thrive on a Timberwolf team where he was the #1 or 2 option. DA might be the 4th or 5th option on this team on most days if he's lucky.
The coaching staff rarely draws up plays for this kid, most of his points come from team F ups and opportunity.
The Suns need to stop using DA like a threat so our shooters can get off.
Give him the ball.

 

[GatorAZ]

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[Cheesebeef]

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how old was he there... 17? He looks like he's aged 15 years in the last 5.

but love love loving him in these playoffs. And he's just scratching the surface.

 

[Yuma]

If you compare his stats to all centers EVER. He's just below the greatest centers of all time AT 22 YEARS OLD. And is surpassing quickly.
He will never be a Shaq. But he CAN guard a guard if needed. Could Shaq?
He will never be a Jokic. But who needs that many assists from a center anyway. lol
He may never be Hakeem. But DA plays very similar to Hakeem with similar stats and a boatload of upside
The main difference between DA and the above?
He plays on a team with TWO ball hungry ALLSTARS and a complement of young shooters and vets looking to make a name for themselves. And STILL manages +20 and +10.
If we swapped him for say KAT. KAT would have 20 and 10 on this team and DA would thrive on a Timberwolf team where he was the #1 or 2 option. DA might be the 4th or 5th option on this team on most days if he's lucky.
The coaching staff rarely draws up plays for this kid, most of his points come from team F ups and opportunity.
The Suns need to stop using DA like a threat so our shooters can get off.
Give him the ball.

He's still young and learning. He needs to learn to fight for and block out for a pass, like guys like Shaq did. He IS just scratching the surface.

 

[JCSunsfan]

My goodness. That was not long ago. Booker had just finished his rookie year when that interview happened. Sometimes we forget how young this kid really is.