Deandre Ayton discussion

[WhyAlwaysMe]

True, but let’s be intellectually honest, shall we? Ayton has played great in the playoffs. But that’s a kid who hasn’t made a single all star game or been named to a single all defensive team. Your homerism is shining through when you neglect to consider Lukas passing and rebounding prowess. He’s not just a scorer. And he’s a legit mvp candidate. Which is better for our team as currently constructed? Ayton. Which would virtually every team take? Almost unanimously luka.

When Kawhi won Finals MVP at 22 he was coming off a year where he averaged 12/6/2.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

See, I don't think that's a fair argument. TEAM would look different. Either way, Luka and Booker would be an insane combo. As high as I am on Ayton, Luka vs. Ayton is not even a remotely close comparison. Luka is right now a top-ten, if not a top-five player in the league.

Who guards Jokic if we have Luka in lieu of Ayton? Stops are what win playoff series. Just ask Luka.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

I completely agree. He doesn't realize how big, long, and quick he is. There is nobody in the league right now that can guard him, and I think he is starting to figure that part out.

And yet no defense Luka, 1st round exit Luka, is better?

I am buying Ayton over Luka for career playoff series wins as a key contributor. Already up 3-0.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Luka is starting to get past the hype and people are seeing his flaws. He is otherworldly on offense no doubt.

Luka is basically bizarro world Rudy. Member when NOBODY SERIOUS would possibly entertain the notion that Ayton was in Gobert’s class? Like 3 months ago? Lmao.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

This is a good question because the Suns window is now. I'd like to keep Stix to see if he develops in his second season but the Suns needs are more immediate.

Let's see how he looks in summer league. I think Stix' upside is more than his trade value.

In regard to Ayton, he was a legitimate NBA player his rookie season.

We beat the Lakers and Clippers with Paul being healthy for one game out of the twelve.

Our window is as long as we have Booker, Ayton, and James Jones.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

4th quarter
7min left

cp3 doubled
kicks it to ayton who is beyond the 3pt mark

ayton dribbles in and finishes without charging


that was something awesome to see, completely caught them off guard

That short roll acumen coupled with his finishing and defense and rebounding is > Luka.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Exactly and it's the same for Booker. Until you start to decline physically you can simply continue to become better and better. Ayton and Booker will likely be far better players 5 years from now than they are today and they are both pretty darn good today.

This is why our window is much larger than Paul’s career.

 

[Mainstreet]

We beat the Lakers and Clippers with Paul being healthy for one game out of the twelve.

Our window is as long as we have Booker, Ayton, and James Jones.

It's a bigger window with Chris Paul though.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Yep. You see small guy all the time pushing him around and him not sealing off defenders to get offensive touches or rebounds.

It's maddening. It's really the biggest weakness he has. He's horrible at it. I've seen PGs who are better than him at it.

But despite this, Ayton still is very good, and if he even became moderately good at it, he'd be a dominant center.

Stay with me here, but he is 22 and should probably get stronger over the next 5 years.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

It's a bigger window with Chris Paul though.

I could easily see the Suns being better in five years, with peak Ayton and Booker, than today.

 

[Mainstreet]

I could easily see the Suns being better in five years, with peak Ayton and Booker, than today.

I've learned nothing is a given. One has to seize the moment when the opportunity presents itself. This is why I'm hopeful the Suns can win a championship this season.

 

[Vacard]

Suns have been winning without Paul but that was against teams that didn’t have a healthy Street Clothes, Murray, and Kawhi. We have to assume all three will be healthy for the playoffs next year even if Kawhi leaves LA.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Assuming Street Clothes will be healthy? Lol k

 

[RON_IN_OC]

This is what I see from Ayton, beyond the physical...He's developing into a leader on the team. I think when CP3 calls it a career, you'll see a 2 headed leadership, with Booker and Ayton... Booker being on energetic leader on the court and Ayton being the locker room guy.

 

[GatorAZ]

And yet no defense Luka, 1st round exit Luka, is better?

I am buying Ayton over Luka for career playoff series wins as a key contributor. Already up 3-0.

Luka took a healthy Clippers team to game 7. He’s absolutely incredible and it has nothing to with Ayton being a great fit on the Suns. Both things are true. If the Suns win a title I wouldn’t go back and change anything about picking DA over Luka.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Luka took a healthy Clippers team to game 7. He’s absolutely incredible and it has nothing to with Ayton being a great fit on the Suns. Both things are true. If the Suns win a title I wouldn’t go back and change anything about picking DA over Luka.

A healthy Clippers team was also down
2-0 to no Conley Jazz. Luka is going to need a Pippen caliber running mate soon or he will keep losing playoff series like 80s Jordan.

 

[GatorAZ]

A healthy Clippers team was also down
2-0 to no Conley Jazz. Luka is going to need a Pippen caliber running mate soon or he will keep losing playoff series like 80s Jordan.

Agree but that’s true for pretty much every all time great except for maybe Magic

 

[Mainstreet]

A healthy Clippers team was also down
2-0 to no Conley Jazz. Luka is going to need a Pippen caliber running mate soon or he will keep losing playoff series like 80s Jordan.

There are rumors the Mavericks may go after Kawhi Leonard.

 

[Superbone]

Luka took a healthy Clippers team to game 7. He’s absolutely incredible and it has nothing to with Ayton being a great fit on the Suns. Both things are true. If the Suns win a title I wouldn’t go back and change anything about picking DA over Luka.

Yup. We have no idea how well Luka and Book would have co-existed. We have something real here. In fact, I wouldn't change anything now. I think we're winning the title but even if we didn't, I'm content with team that we have.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Stay with me here, but he is 22 and should probably get stronger over the next 5 years.

It's not a strength or size issue. Ayton is plenty big enough to push Pat Bev back.

 

[Yuma]

There are rumors the Mavericks may go after Kawhi Leonard.

I see those. They have to dump the Unicorn. That's the part I find hard. Also, lots of rumors Kawhi will resign with Clips or jump to Lakers somehow.

 

[Yuma]

I've learned nothing is a given. One has to seize the moment when the opportunity presents itself. This is why I'm hopeful the Suns can win a championship this season.

I agree, but I think he was saying our upside is not tied to strictly Chris Paul. I can see Booker learning the leadership aspect from Paul. That's going to play forward for us. Booker is getting the blueprint from Paul this season. If it ends in a Championship, that blue print will be burned into Booker! What I like about Book is he is hungry. Booker will be more hungry for more tittles if he wins, not less!! I think Booker sees how Paul is pushing Ayton. Booker will pick that up. Bridges and both Cams have upside Paul and Booker need to tap next!!

 

[1Sun]

Yup. We have no idea how well Luka and Book would have co-existed. We have something real here. In fact, I wouldn't change anything now. I think we're winning the title but even if we didn't, I'm content with team that we have.

We definitely need an upgrade over Saric/Kaminsky at the 4/5, and ideally a true starting power forward in place of Crowder, relegating Crowder to an energy guy off the bench (and if that costs us Crowder and/or Saric in a trade, then so be it, particularly if it nets us someone like John Collins). Other than that, though, I concur.

In terms of free agents that are realistically available and potentially could fill our need, the pickings appear slim, as they feature the likes of Richaun Holmes (whom we already cast aside in favor of Kaminsky), Nerlens Noel (possibly our best bet, but strictly as a back-up to Ayton, which means we are still starting a wing at power forward), Bobby Portis (whom we already ignored in two different offseasons), Serge Ibaka (whom we already chose not to pursue last offseason, and who is now a major question mark health-wise), DeMarcus Cousins (whom we already refused to even consider bringing in this season), and Lauri Markkanen (who would require a trade, since he is restricted, and who doesn't defend well).

I really do wish there was a way we could work a trade for John Collins. He seems like the best fit for us at the 4. I also wonder if we might also consider taking a flyer on a trade for Marvin Bagley, particularly if all it costs us is Saric/Stix. I do know that he was pretty close with Ayton at one point in time, and their games mesh together decently.

 

[Yuma]

We definitely need an upgrade over Saric/Kaminsky at the 4/5, and ideally a true starting power forward in place of Crowder, relegating Crowder to an energy guy off the bench (and if that costs us Crowder and/or Saric in a trade, then so be it, particularly if it nets us someone like John Collins). Other than that, though, I concur.

In terms of free agents that are realistically available and potentially could fill our need, the pickings appear slim, as they feature the likes of Richaun Holmes (whom we already cast aside in favor of Kaminsky), Nerlens Noel (possibly our best bet, but strictly as a back-up to Ayton, which means we are still starting a wing at power forward), Bobby Portis (whom we already ignored in two different offseasons), Serge Ibaka (whom we already chose not to pursue last offseason, and who is now a major question mark health-wise), DeMarcus Cousins (whom we already refused to even consider bringing in this season), and Lauri Markkanen (who would require a trade, since he is restricted, and who doesn't defend well).

I really do wish there was a way we could work a trade for John Collins. He seems like the best fit for us at the 4. I also wonder if we might also consider taking a flyer on a trade for Marvin Bagley, particularly if all it costs us is Saric/Stix. I do know that he was pretty close with Ayton at one point in time, and their games mesh together decently.

I have been rethinking this. I do like Collins. However, most teams seem to not be playing true PFs anymore. I think we need a backup at Center more. Guys like Crowder, Craig, Nader, seem to be who we would play anyway to match up with the NBA going small. I think we are looking for defense that can switch more that an actual player at a position.

 

[1Sun]

I have been rethinking this. I do like Collins. However, most teams seem to not be playing true PFs anymore. I think we need a backup at Center more. Guys like Crowder, Craig, Nader, seem to be who we would play anyway to match up with the NBA going small. I think we are looking for defense that can switch more that an actual player at a position.

And I would be okay with that (though Nader is a 2/3, with Cam Johnson being much more likely to be a small ball 4, along with Crowder, and Craig if we hang on to him), which is why Nerlens Noel might be our best bet if we can't or won't swing a trade for someone like Collins or Bagley.

One way or the other, though, we will absolutely need more beef somewhere on the roster to match up with the likes of the Bucks, Lakers, Clippers, Sixers, etc. when fully healthy.

 

[Mainstreet]

I see those. They have to dump the Unicorn. That's the part I find hard. Also, lots of rumors Kawhi will resign with Clips or jump to Lakers somehow.

The Mavericks have enough room or can make enough room to sign Leonard if he wants to go there but my guess is he stays with the Clippers.