Deandre Ayton facing 25 game suspension

[WildBB]

Yes, different eras of sports organization, but not human ability. I was specifically thinking of the steroid asterisk era in baseball, and how athletic accomplishment associated with this era is dismissed relative to previous accomplishments. For example, Babe Ruth's home run record was, and still is, one of the most celebrated in sports history, whereas Barry Bonds can't even get into the Hall of Fame.

* Maybe if the best on their era's accept their stats being "adjusted" for certain time frames and acknowledging their usages, some compromise can be reached. But players like Bonds have acknowledged squat afaik. So yes NO Specail Recognitions! That's appropriate.

Some more has to be done into researching the league for tampering baseballs now. 2019 was CRAZY for HR's overall. It followed a year in which there was more strikeouts then hits for the first time ever I believe. So there is reason to suspect baseball's were tampered with by the league to improve viewership.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I imagine some of it also has to do with preserving historical sports context. We measure greatness based on the performance of previous athletes in history. If steroids are permitted, those historical examples are no longer relevant measuring sticks. Sports would essentially be starting over again in determining the greatest athletes of all time.

We have all sorts of medical advances that give players advantage today. It is unreasonable to think there can be a level playing field between generations. Old time baseball pitchers did not have Tommy John surgery for example. That is a really foolish reason to ban PED's.

 

[Sunburn]

We have all sorts of medical advances that give players advantage today. It is unreasonable to think there can be a level playing field between generations. Old time baseball pitchers did not have Tommy John surgery for example. That is a really foolish reason to ban PED's.

Medical advances such as surgical techniques seem to be accepted. Taking substances that induce superhuman physical ability seem to not. I would imagine this is because it would be ridiculous to not repair someone to the best of present day medical ability, or require them to quit their livelihood, for the sake of preserving historical competitive perspective.

 

[GatorAZ]

This seems to be part of John Collins defense.

From ESPN:


"I have always been incredibly careful about what I put in my body, but I took a supplement, which, unbeknownst to me, had been contaminated with an illegal component. I plan to appeal my suspension in arbitration so I can get back on the court as soon as possible and continue to contribute to our 2019-20 campaign."


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28012876/hawks-john-collins-suspended-25-games-peds

Deny till you die.

 

[Sunburn]

Some more has to be done into researching the league for tampering baseballs now. 2019 was CRAZY for HR's overall. It followed a year in which there was more strikeouts then hits for the first time ever I believe. So there is reason to suspect baseball's were tampered with by the league to improve viewership.

This is really interesting to me. Players secretly took PED's to obtain a competitive advantage. In so doing, homeruns increased, and viewership followed. Baseball shuns these players. Baseball then secretly enhances balls to induce more homeruns, and thus, viewership.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

This is really interesting to me. Players secretly took PED's to obtain a competitive advantage. In so doing, homeruns increased, and viewership followed. Baseball shuns these players. Baseball then secretly enhances balls to induce more homeruns, and thus, viewership.

Messing with balls gives everyone the same advantage. Some people using PEDs while others don't only helps the people using them.

 

[TJ]

Messing with balls gives everyone the same advantage

That's what she said

 

[SactownSunsFan]

No news nearly two weeks after he supposedly met with the league? Did the appeal decision just get swept under the rug?

 

[Raindog]

No news nearly two weeks after he supposedly met with the league? Did the appeal decision just get swept under the rug?

Well, obviously he hasn't been unsuspended, or we all would have heard about that.

It is odd that there was no announcement about the appeal being denied, though. One would assume that means it is still being considered. If that's not the case, and no actual decision is ever publicly announced, that would indicate the NBA subscribes to a genuinely absurd and idiosyncratic protocol.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Well, obviously he hasn't been unsuspended, or we all would have heard about that.

It is odd that there was no announcement about the appeal being denied, though. One would assume that means it is still being considered. If that's not the case, and no actual decision is ever publicly announced, that would indicate the NBA subscribes to a genuinely absurd and idiosyncratic protocol.

Yes, which begs the question... why is this taking so long?

 

[Superbone]

Yes, which begs the question... why is this taking so long?

It's going to take the same amount of time we heard from the beginning. 25 games. He'll be back Dec. 17 versus the Clippers.

 

[BC867]

It's going to take the same amount of time we heard from the beginning. 25 games. He'll be back Dec. 17 versus the Clippers.

It seems like no word to the contrary is a passive way of enforcing it,
versus making an announcement one way or the other.

Not very admirable. But that is the way it seems to be.

 

[Mainstreet]

It will be interesting to track the suspension of John Collins as well.

Ayton's appeal was reportedly expedited by the NBPA. I'm not sure about Collins.

The NBPA has the ability to expedite two cases a year with the league, and sources say it's likely the union will use one of them on Ayton to try to get him back on the court as soon possible.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...yton-tests-positive-diuretic-gets-25-game-ban

 

[JCSunsfan]

Some thoughts on the Ayton suspension. First, I am going to assume that the underlying issue is marijuana use. I am fairly confident this is the case. The suspension is here. What positives can we hope for?

1. Time to re-evaluate his game. Ayton gets to watch Baynes and the team succeed without him. I wonder if he has the maturity and humility to see that he needs to change. He needs to play more like Baynes. Set hard picks, play position D, take defensive leadership. If this suspension results in this kind of change, it might be worth it.

2. Time to re-evaluate his lifestyle. I do not know for sure Ayton has a pot problem, but anecdotal evidence seems to indicate so. I am not talking about the legality, it just makes sense that pot can impact performace--especially if the player's problem is inattention and lack of competitiveness. I imagine it might actually help a player who is edgy or gets too nervous, but that is not Ayton. If Ayton has a problem, and if this gets him off of it, it might be worth it.

3. Time to re-evaluate his role--actually the roles of both Ayton and Baynes. Baynes is playing too well just to yank him back to a back-up center role. That would just be unwise and potentially demoralizing to the team. Ayton is the long-term answer at center for this team, but Baynes' presence allows for a more effective development curve. I would not pull Baynes out of the starting line-up. Ayton needs to earn his way back. That would fit with the team-first mentality that Monty has implemented and it might light a fire under Ayton. Based upon their relative strengths, it makes sense that Ayton and Baynes could be on the court together. It doesn't matter which you call center and which you call pf. Baynes shoots like a pf and defends like a center. Ayton scores and rebounds like a center and defends like a pf.

4. Set the picks. One of the reasons Baynes is so effective in pick and roll is that he sets such good picks. Players are so focused on the pick itself, they lose focus on the roll. Since Baynes can shoot the three, he can pick and roll or pick and pop. But it all starts with the pick. The first sign that Ayton is developing is whether he learns to set hard picks. If that starts to happen, then watch out.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

If it's linked to marijuana than Ayton has to be a complete idiot to use a diuretic to try and cover it up...

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

3. Time to re-evaluate his role--actually the roles of both Ayton and Baynes. Baynes is playing too well just to yank him back to a back-up center role. That would just be unwise and potentially demoralizing to the team. Ayton is the long-term answer at center for this team, but Baynes' presence allows for a more effective development curve. I would not pull Baynes out of the starting line-up. Ayton needs to earn his way back. That would fit with the team-first mentality that Monty has implemented and it might light a fire under Ayton. Based upon their relative strengths, it makes sense that Ayton and Baynes could be on the court together. It doesn't matter which you call center and which you call pf. Baynes shoots like a pf and defends like a center. Ayton scores and rebounds like a center and defends like a pf.

While Ayton has let the team down with this suspension and he will almost certainly come off the bench as he works back into game shape, but the old school style that Monty uses typically says that you lose your spot in the rotation based on your play on the court. Ayton has done nothing on the court to suggest he shouldn't get a lot of minutes and probably even the starting spot.

Also I suspect it will become more and more clear as the season progresses that Baynes' style of play is better utilized as a guy that gets about 20 minutes per game off the bench. His style of play causes him to pick up a lot of fouls and also take a lot of punishment. He would be even more effective and take less physical punishment playing about 20 minutes per game and a decent amount of that against the opposing bench. I suppose we will get the chance to see how it plays out, but at this rate I'm not confident that Baynes won't miss some games before Ayton gets back simply because he takes so many big hits.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If it's linked to marijuana than Ayton has to be a complete idiot to use a diuretic to try and cover it up...

If he knew the consequences of being outed for marijuana versus a diuretic, sure.

 

[Hoop Head]

3. Time to re-evaluate his role--actually the roles of both Ayton and Baynes. Baynes is playing too well just to yank him back to a back-up center role. That would just be unwise and potentially demoralizing to the team. Ayton is the long-term answer at center for this team, but Baynes' presence allows for a more effective development curve. I would not pull Baynes out of the starting line-up. Ayton needs to earn his way back. That would fit with the team-first mentality that Monty has implemented and it might light a fire under Ayton. Based upon their relative strengths, it makes sense that Ayton and Baynes could be on the court together. It doesn't matter which you call center and which you call pf. Baynes shoots like a pf and defends like a center. Ayton scores and rebounds like a center and defends like a pf.

It won't take long for Ayton to get the starting job back if he's benched for Baynes. Baynes has come back down to earth lately after an incredible start to the season. The Baynes that strung together 4-5 good games where he knocked down a few 3's each night and was scoring around 20 a game are likely over. He'll have games like that down the line but it won't be like the first 5 games or so he started in Ayton's place. He's a 32 old backup, it's not like the Suns finally got him to play up to his potential, he just had a hot streak that has since cooled.

I also agree with what @CardsSunsDbacks post as far as Ayton likely working himself back into shape and allowing Baynes to go all out for his 20 or so minutes as a backup.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It won't take long for Ayton to get the starting job back if he's benched for Baynes. Baynes has come back down to earth lately after an incredible start to the season. The Baynes that strung together 4-5 good games where he knocked down a few 3's each night and was scoring around 20 a game are likely over. He'll have games like that down the line but it won't be like the first 5 games or so he started in Ayton's place. He's a 32 old backup, it's not like the Suns finally got him to play up to his potential, he just had a hot streak that has since cooled.

I also agree with what @CardsSunsDbacks post as far as Ayton likely working himself back into shape and allowing Baynes to go all out for his 20 or so minutes as a backup.

Not sure we can say that he has cooled off just yet. He had a bad shooting game against the Hawks, but that might be his first poor shooting game of the whole season. We should probably see how he bounces back before determining that he has regressed.

I do believe that we won't see him getting nearly as many wide open looks as he got the first few games and we will have to see how he responds to that going forward. He didn't respond well last night, but it's ultimately just one game.

 

[Evil Ash]

It won't take long for Ayton to get the starting job back if he's benched for Baynes. Baynes has come back down to earth lately after an incredible start to the season. The Baynes that strung together 4-5 good games where he knocked down a few 3's each night and was scoring around 20 a game are likely over. He'll have games like that down the line but it won't be like the first 5 games or so he started in Ayton's place. He's a 32 old backup, it's not like the Suns finally got him to play up to his potential, he just had a hot streak that has since cooled.

I also agree with what @CardsSunsDbacks post as far as Ayton likely working himself back into shape and allowing Baynes to go all out for his 20 or so minutes as a backup.

Since Ayton is allowed to practice with the team during his suspension, getting into playing shape may not be much of an issue either

 

[Hoop Head]

It'll be interesting to see how he bounces back, for sure. What's interesting to note is that last night's game was the first time all season that he recorded a negative plus/minus but the Suns won the game. In all of the other games that he was in the negative, the Suns lost. Link to his gamelog.

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[1Sun]

Not sure we can say that he has cooled off just yet. He had a bad shooting game against the Hawks, but that might be his first poor shooting game of the whole season. We should probably see how he bounces back before determining that he has regressed.

I do believe that we won't see him getting nearly as many wide open looks as he got the first few games and we will have to see how he responds to that going forward. He didn't respond well last night, but it's ultimately just one game.

Perhaps, but he definitely looked spent, or just off (not only in terms of shooting, but everywhere else)...

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Perhaps, but he definitely looked spent, or just off (not only in terms of shooting, but everywhere else)...

Maybe so, but it's only one game. If he string 3-4 games together like the Hawks one than I would be worried that he is truly regressing.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Maybe so, but it's only one game. If he string 3-4 games together like the Hawks one than I would be worried that he is truly regressing.

If it were just shooting I'd agree with you but he looked a full step slower out there on defense too in addition to him hesitating on his deep shots. He's not usually a minutes eater and he's coming off of a busy summer so it would be no surprise if his legs are a little rubbery now.

 

[Rab]

I think we all love us some Baynes but I agree it’s not sustainable for him to be the starting center all year which is why I hope Ayton comes back strong. Hell, I’d like to see the two of them play together for stretches. Baynes in more limited minutes is long term going to be better for team. It would have been nice to have DA out there against the Lakers who throw a ton of size at you at all times.


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