Defense? Don’t make me laugh.

[Stout]

For me to have any faith in Kyler going forward I would need to see him working with a coach in the offseason as he should have been the last 2 offseasons.

There is so much he needs to work on. If all I see from him is a bunch more Gym videos on Insta and he roles up thinking he's good enough as he is I'm giving up all hope.

I don't think even that would be enough from me. I don't know how we'd definitely know, short of him confessing he had to change his way, but he needs to sit is ass down in the film room and WORK.

 

[BritCard]

So you're saying he can't be a good QB? Because, let's be honest, a leopard doesn't change its spots. Sure, it took a few years for Allen to get a QB coach, but that didn't mean he wasn't working to get better. He had none of the noise of being "cognitively too good" like KM surrounding him.

They can change their spots. This is an age thing (and an upbringing thing).

Kyler is still pretty immature. I remember being young and arrogant once. You soon learn how much you don't know. My main concern is that it's been 3 years and Kyler doesn't seem to have grasped that yet.

The other aspect is that Josh Allen was a zero star recruit from rural California. He always had to work hard for what he had.

Kyler Murray was raised in a test tube to play QB (he can still fit in one) and told at every stage of his life how great he was. He won everywhere he played, he was the superstar all his life. He thrived on natural ability. He quit the one place he was ever challenged which tells you a lot.

What he need's is a QB coach or OC who has played. Someone who can tell him he will never make it without the study. That talent is not enough.

 

[BritCard]

I don't think even that would be enough from me. I don't know how we'd definitely know, short of him confessing he had to change his way, but he needs to sit is ass down in the film room and WORK.

That's a big part of the offseason coaching though. It's not all throwing balls and working on mechanics. You would with any of these QB guru's in the offseason and a lot of the time is spent in the film room.

Kliff takes a big portion of the blame for this. He's let him get away with it too much and for too long.

 

[Stout]

They can change their spots. This is an age thing (and an upbringing thing).

Kyler is still pretty immature. I remember being young and arrogant once. You soon learn how much you don't know. My main concern is that it's been 3 years and Kyler doesn't seem to have grasped that yet.

The other aspect is that Josh Allen was a zero star recruit from rural California. He always had to work hard for what he had.

Kyler Murray was raised in a test tube to play QB (he can still fit in one) and told at every stage of his life how great he was. He won everywhere he played, he was the superstar all his life. He thrived on natural ability. He quit the one place he was ever challenged which tells you a lot.

What he need's is a QB coach or OC who has played. Someone who can tell him he will never make it without the study. That talent is not enough.

Okay, so you're saying that said coach also gets through to him and gets him to watch film? I can buy that. I can't buy that he's going to humble himself to get an offseason QB coach, or that he's going to actually listen to a QB coach or OC. Why would he start now? On the list of star QBs down the years, you don't find many who started out woefully and inexcusably immature that suddenly turn it around. Ben Roethlissomething, yes, because his team was so good he went and won a SB early. Who else? Who else is THIS arrogant and suddenly humbles himself enough to live up to his potential? It's just so damn depressing to think about.

 

[yagetonemoreyear]

He's defo not a bust. He has all the talent. That's what is frustrating.

What he doesn't have is the work ethic you need to be a top QB in the NFL. You have to live and breath QB 90% of the time for at least 7 months of the year. You get your down time in the early offseason and from May through to February (if you are lucky) it's all football all the time except the odd day here and there.

If you can't handle that, then you can't be a good NFL QB.

"He's defo not a bust".. please clarify 'defo' , not sure what you mean by that.
he does NOT have all the talent because, unfortunately, in football, you better be big
(and when you say big is not a talent, I give you 'Quantity has it's own quality')

At least on the pro level. In college he saw at WORST, 2 pro level players on the other team (in high school it probably was .001 future pros if that) each game.

Now, he sees a freaking def lineman may track him down and squash him .. a DEF LINEMAN...that is NOT in Kyler's vocabulary and opposing DCs figured that out and now Kyler is running scared because he NEVER had to deal with this...

My respect for Burrows, Mahomes, Allen, et al just soars as I watch Kyler flounder..

 

[THESMEL]

Doesn’t matter if your coach evaluates Conner as a back up and doesn’t run early agains Donald and Miller. Thei Air Red includes a vigorous run game, but no the big stupid, doesn’t run early and allows opposing defenses to tee off from very beginning, almost always! dream scenario for opposing defenses, one dimensionally pass our selves to death.

no oline, QB, defense, special teams have a chance.

 

[Russ Smith]

So you're saying he can't be a good QB? Because, let's be honest, a leopard doesn't change its spots. Sure, it took a few years for Allen to get a QB coach, but that didn't mean he wasn't working to get better. He had none of the noise of being "cognitively too good" like KM surrounding him.

I think people underestimate the differences in Allen and Kyler coming up, Josh was a 2 year starter 3 year guy who completed 56 % of his passes in college and looked terrible as a rookie. He HAD to get a QB coach and work because he was clearly nowhere near good enough at that point. Kyler played far less in college, split time with baseball, came into the worst team in the NFL with a rookie coach and was even as a rookie a good player.

Yes he needs to get much better and needs to work harder at his craft but Josh Allen HAD to do that he had no choice, the problem I see with Kyler is he was good enough right away on just natural talent that maybe he convinced himself he didn't need to do that. He does but it's taken him longer to come to the realization Allen came to as a rookie completing 53% 10 TD 12 picks.

 

[AZCB34]

Shorter version of Ryan Leaf. The immaturity. The arrogance.

Kyler is at the proverbial fork in the road. Which part does he choose?

 

[Jetstream Green]

I would rather have some really slow guys... ya know, DL and OL

 

[kerouac9]

Kevin Murray is Kyler Murray’s dad and a big QB coach at Texas’ Air 14 academy. If you were Kyler, why would you go anywhere else?

 

[Russ Smith]

Kevin Murray is Kyler Murray’s dad and a big QB coach at Texas’ Air 14 academy. If you were Kyler, why would you go anywhere else?

I've mentioned that before I think it's a big problem because he's family and it's hard to convince someone that they need a different perspective.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Shorter version of Ryan Leaf. The immaturity. The arrogance.

Kyler is at the proverbial fork in the road. Which part does he choose?

He's absolutely nothing like Ryan Leaf.

 

[Russ Smith]

Said it last week I would be amazed if Kyler went to baseball. He's 24, he'll be 25 in August, name the last guy to make it in MLB who didn't start playing pro until he was 24/25 years old and hadn't played in over 4 years? even Deion Sanders was 21 and had played recently in college.

If people think Kyler can't handle failure the last thing he's going to do at his age is go try and play baseball.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He's defo not a bust. He has all the talent. That's what is frustrating.

What he doesn't have is the work ethic you need to be a top QB in the NFL. You have to live and breath QB 90% of the time for at least 7 months of the year. You get your down time in the early offseason and from May through to February (if you are lucky) it's all football all the time except the odd day here and there.

If you can't handle that, then you can't be a good NFL QB.

Again, I don’t think it’s work ethic. He obviously puts in the effort in the offseason. It’s just not in the right places. Don’t work harder, work smarter. Instead of getting 0.04 seconds faster by doing speed training like a madman get your butt in the film room and work on the mental side of your game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think people underestimate the differences in Allen and Kyler coming up, Josh was a 2 year starter 3 year guy who completed 56 % of his passes in college and looked terrible as a rookie. He HAD to get a QB coach and work because he was clearly nowhere near good enough at that point. Kyler played far less in college, split time with baseball, came into the worst team in the NFL with a rookie coach and was even as a rookie a good player.

Yes he needs to get much better and needs to work harder at his craft but Josh Allen HAD to do that he had no choice, the problem I see with Kyler is he was good enough right away on just natural talent that maybe he convinced himself he didn't need to do that. He does but it's taken him longer to come to the realization Allen came to as a rookie completing 53% 10 TD 12 picks.

You and Brit Card are raising very good points. Maturity comes to people at different points in their life. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be frustrated with his lack thereof at present. But also doesn’t mean we can’t be pleasantly surprised in the near future if it does come to pass. Hopefully soon.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Shorter version of Ryan Leaf. The immaturity. The arrogance.

Kyler is at the proverbial fork in the road. Which part does he choose?

Kyler is already much better than lead ever was.

 

[slanidrac16]

I agree.

Mainly because I think the defense has enough talent already and we are not really losing anyone on that side of the ball except potentially CJ.

The best way to help the defense is to have an offense that can keep the defense off the field.

I'd resign Kirk. He's good friends with Kyler. Kyler trusts him. I don't want to start messing around with the chemistry on offense. Kirk has earned it and we need to resign our draft picks.

The areas we need to improve are replacing AJ Green. A new RG (at least).

I'm not too concerned about much more at WR. I want to resign Ertz and Maxx. I would love to see those guys on the field together.

An Offense of Nuk, Kirk, Moore, Ertz, Maxx and a decent outside receiver would be more than enough firepower.

Not enough Brit. Go a out and sign two o-linemen. Harry mentioned Ben Jones who is a very good center AND guard. Add a guy like Mike Glowinski and we would have the best o- line we’ve had in many years and there’s your depth. No more bandaids .
From everything I’ve read Kirk is expected to make 10-12m. No way and I’m tired of hearing about Kylee’s feelings. A guy like Cedric Wilson is taller , just as fast and will sign for less than Kirk. Then we have to add a physical wide receiver. Maybe a one year prove it deal like DJ Chark. Both of these guys will add much needed speed to this offended and actually make Hopkins even better. I hope Green has already left Arizona. Moores roll can and should be expanded and an added bonus.

TE, We all love Max. But can we really depend on him to be 100% ready to he was in 1 year. I think a guy like Mo Alie Cox Would be awesome even if Max returns. There’s your depth again. Any other te’s on this team should be bagging groceries by now.

RB. Conner is our thug. Our beat them up later in the game guy. I think everyone wants him back. With that we need to add speed. Everything else is a question mark. It appears Edmonds might not be back. Can Eno step up? Can Ward contribute? If not we have to either draft a guy or find one in free agency.

We heard this last year…”All In”, but we really weren’t. We are SLOW on offense. That has to drastically change.

Depth and speed should be top priority for this offense. Then we can put it all on Kingsbury and Murray. If we don’t see a drastic improvement from this offense there will be a head coach in 2023 that will have a decent roster with depth.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kevin Murray is Kyler Murray’s dad and a big QB coach at Texas’ Air 14 academy. If you were Kyler, why would you go anywhere else?

There’s value in getting different perspectives. Like golfers getting different swing coaches and different caddies.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Said it last week I would be amazed if Kyler went to baseball. He's 24, he'll be 25 in August, name the last guy to make it in MLB who didn't start playing pro until he was 24/25 years old and hadn't played in over 4 years? even Deion Sanders was 21 and had played recently in college.

If people think Kyler can't handle failure the last thing he's going to do at his age is go try and play baseball.

Agreed. I was saying that last year. Baseball is done.

 

[AZCB34]

Kyler is already much better than lead ever was.

Never said he wasn’t better I was pointing to an parallel in maturity and arrogance which I think is valid if not slightly hyperbolic.

 

[PACardsFan]

Lol... did you actually watch the QBs ? Their Olines ?
we have no Oline and since Keim is a GM and was an Oline veteran, with years of experience.. apparently, all we need is a good Oline and Kyler will be a top 5 QB.

NO. Keim is useless... our line is useless (sound familiar ? that complaint is pretty much as old as I have watched them)

Until Keim is gone.. (which would mean KK and VJ are gone .. hooray) this team will NEVER achieve anything and with MB in charge ... he will never pick a decent GM and let him run the team ... because Keim kisses MB's butt and MB likes that.

so, Cards are done... forever... what is the life expectancy of an average American male ? its 79 years, but that includes women who live longer than men. and Bidwill has 28 years to fix this team (assuming he even cares, which I doubt)

at the end of that (which is 18 years past my life expectancy), maybe, just MAYBE, a Bidwill will take over and actually run this team.

Am I willing to wait ? No F###ing way. 28 years was enough. Cards are now my backup NFC team and I am moving my main affiliation to the Raiders...

You’re not going to hear me send accolades to the Bidwill family. Bill was a horrible owner & they may have been the worst run franchise in all of sports under his direction. Michael is better, but great seasons will be the exception not the norm until he decides to sell them. There are a few of us that have suffered 55+ years of mostly futility. At 28 years, you have a long ways to go before anyone is going to feel sorry for you. Get in line my friend.

 

[DVontel]

Never said he wasn’t better I was pointing to an parallel in maturity and arrogance which I think is valid if not slightly hyperbolic.

It’s extremely hyperbolic.

 

[Stout]

I think people underestimate the differences in Allen and Kyler coming up, Josh was a 2 year starter 3 year guy who completed 56 % of his passes in college and looked terrible as a rookie. He HAD to get a QB coach and work because he was clearly nowhere near good enough at that point. Kyler played far less in college, split time with baseball, came into the worst team in the NFL with a rookie coach and was even as a rookie a good player.

Yes he needs to get much better and needs to work harder at his craft but Josh Allen HAD to do that he had no choice, the problem I see with Kyler is he was good enough right away on just natural talent that maybe he convinced himself he didn't need to do that. He does but it's taken him longer to come to the realization Allen came to as a rookie completing 53% 10 TD 12 picks.

Sure, but that doesn't excuse KM. He has to learn, and fast, that he isn't all that and a bag of chips; he has to WORK to become that. And, as Cheese said, not just physical work. Because the kid does work; he's not lazy, per se, though I sometimes simplify it to that. It's more arrogance, that he doesn't have to put the mental work in. He doesn't get years and decades to get better at that attitude. He basically gets an offseason now. He's pretty much out of time and can't put in performances like that in clutch games any longer.

 

[Stout]

Kevin Murray is Kyler Murray’s dad and a big QB coach at Texas’ Air 14 academy. If you were Kyler, why would you go anywhere else?

Definitely problematic.

 

[BritCard]

"He's defo not a bust".. please clarify 'defo' , not sure what you mean by that.
he does NOT have all the talent because, unfortunately, in football, you better be big
(and when you say big is not a talent, I give you 'Quantity has it's own quality')

At least on the pro level. In college he saw at WORST, 2 pro level players on the other team (in high school it probably was .001 future pros if that) each game.

Now, he sees a freaking def lineman may track him down and squash him .. a DEF LINEMAN...that is NOT in Kyler's vocabulary and opposing DCs figured that out and now Kyler is running scared because he NEVER had to deal with this...

My respect for Burrows, Mahomes, Allen, et al just soars as I watch Kyler flounder..

No QB that gets 11 wins in the NFL is a bust.

What he is is well below the level he is capable of achieving due to lack of effort. He would be starting QB for 20 teams in the league. That's not a bust.