Defense

Duckjake

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For some reason I'm getting the feeling that the 2010 defense is going to be the best defense we have had since 1994.

That is if what I have always been told about defense is that it starts with the guys up front. Dockett,Iwebema,Williams,Watson,Robinson,Campbell,Branch.

Have we ever had that many guys on our front line who, while maybe not All-Pro caliber, are more than solid NFL players?

Then I add in the positive reports on Lenon and seeing what Rhodes can do in the secondary it gives me hope that I can go an entire season without typing:
Car*s.

:koolaid:
 

jw7

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Duck, Dock (wait did I just say Duck Dock - that's a kids game right? Need to say "Goose") is looking like an absolute monster out there. He is a different player with just a new level of motivation. On the Leinart video, he just simply destroyed pro-bowler Faneca. It was sick to watch and I know the video has been posted here.

DRC is looking great as well, going up against Fitz and breaking up pases. Watson lost over 30 lbs and he is looking great as well. Williams is sucking a little bit of wind right now but he will get better with the hazing Dock is putting on him.

Looks like Toler will win the 2nd CB position and we are more than fine at safety. The only small question is the LBs.
 
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Duckjake

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Duck, Dock (wait did I just say Duck Dock - that's a kids game right? Need to say "Goose") is looking like an absolute monster out there. He is a different player with just a new level of motivation. On the Leinart video, he just simply destroyed pro-bowler Faneca. It was sick to watch and I know the video has been posted here.

DRC is looking great as well, going up against Fitz and breaking up pases. Watson lost over 30 lbs and he is looking great as well. Williams is sucking a little bit of wind right now but he will get better with the hazing Dock is putting on him.

Looks like Toler will win the 2nd CB position and we are more than fine at safety. The only small question is the LBs.

But if Lenon plays even at a normal NFL level we're going to be fine at LB.

I really think that Porter has given an extra voice to Dockett on the D and we're going to see play that we haven't seen since the Eagles game in 1994 when no matter what Philly did the Cards stuffed it. 185 yards total offense.
That's awesome.

Anyone that comes to play Arizona this year better strap their helmets on real tight.
 

football karma

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DJ:

i have had the same thought running through my mind -- and can't tell if its justified, or simply the normal pre-season optimism.
 

Buckybird

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For some reason I'm getting the feeling that the 2010 defense is going to be the best defense we have had since 1994.

That is if what I have always been told about defense is that it starts with the guys up front. Dockett,Iwebema,Williams,Watson,Robinson,Campbell,Branch.

Have we ever had that many guys on our front line who, while maybe not All-Pro caliber, are more than solid NFL players?

Then I add in the positive reports on Lenon and seeing what Rhodes can do in the secondary it gives me hope that I can go an entire season without typing:
Car*s.

:koolaid:

Believe it when I see it. The secondary still scares the hell out of me. Go 3 & 4 wide getting our base defense of the field & I think we're still in trouble. Hope I'm wrong but seeing is believing.
 

slanidrac16

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What I'm most optimistic about is we have gotten faster on the defensive side of the ball. Rolle was straight line fast but not good in coverage. Okeafor and Berry are replaced with younger and faster although Washington will be on a steep learning curve.

The biggest difference in today's Cardinals compared to the "old" Cardinals is depth. When you look at our d-line we can have fresh legs out there for the entire game. When the opponent's offense break the huddle sucking air, we will have guys smiling at them.
Same goes for our o-line. The thing that worries me about our o-line is continuity with the changes we've made. However, unlike the past, we are not counting on a rookie to step in and be our savior. We now have depth AND versatility along the line.

It's so close you can smell it now ,boys!
 
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Duckjake

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What I'm most optimistic about is we have gotten faster on the defensive side of the ball. Rolle was straight line fast but not good in coverage. Okeafor and Berry are replaced with younger and faster although Washington will be on a steep learning curve.

The biggest difference in today's Cardinals compared to the "old" Cardinals is depth. When you look at our d-line we can have fresh legs out there for the entire game. When the opponent's offense break the huddle sucking air, we will have guys smiling at them.
Same goes for our o-line. The thing that worries me about our o-line is continuity with the changes we've made. However, unlike the past, we are not counting on a rookie to step in and be our savior. We now have depth AND versatility along the line.

It's so close you can smell it now ,boys!

I don't know if we've done that. But it sure looks like we've gotten meaner. Not necessarily guys going for the Chuck Cecil big hit but guys that simply maul the offensive players and when they do get the shot knock the snot out of the ball carrier. 22 guys with an attitude and talent to back it up. Can't wait for September.
 

BullheadCardFan

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WATSON’S POTENTIAL

On the subject of nose tackles, Whisenhunt said it will be difficult to find playing time for all three, before noting Watson “is one of the biggest surprises of the first week.”​

Watson has one major believer in defensive tackle Darnell Dockett
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, who tweeted Tuesday that Watson “will have a great year! He's training with me and I'm feeding him hot sauce and gun powder.”

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and...Altitude/14a553d4-a501-4f5f-96f0-6ac3fd50847c
 

O

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I don't know if we've done that. But it sure looks like we've gotten meaner. Not necessarily guys going for the Chuck Cecil big hit but guys that simply maul the offensive players and when they do get the shot knock the snot out of the ball carrier. 22 guys with an attitude and talent to back it up. Can't wait for September.


See my signature
 

Crimson Warrior

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The kool aid never tastes better than the week before the first preseason game.

:D

and this is a lot of talk about a defense that gave up 90 points in its last two games.

Duckjake, even though I appreciate the enthusiasm, and I think it's likely we're improved vs. last year, if you don't mind, I believe I'll wait to see if they can slow down Johnson Walters and Slaton before I start comparing them to that vicious defense buddy had in his first year (man they were fun to watch. The opponents back field looked like a jail break on every play).
 
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Duckjake

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The kool aid never tastes better than the week before the first preseason game.

:D

and this is a lot of talk about a defense that gave up 90 points in its last two games.

Duckjake, even though I appreciate the enthusiasm, and I think it's likely we're improved vs. last year, if you don't mind, I believe I'll wait to see if they can slow down Johnson Walters and Slaton before I start comparing them to that vicious defense buddy had in his first year (man they were fun to watch. The opponents back field looked like a jail break on every play).

Slaton 13 carries for 39 yards and that was before the "attitude" arrived from Miami. I think they can slow him down.
 

Dayman

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I'm still worried about ILB and CB. Tongafau practicing with the first team today is not a good sign. A trade for Thomas Howard would help a lot. He isn't a superstar, but he's 27, averages nearly 100 tackles a game, defends the pass well, has never missed a game and most importantly, he looks like he could be available.

http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2010/08/08/brennan-ready-to-be-thrown-into-the-fire/
– Either the Raiders are getting a look at other players or Thomas Howard is biding his time awaiting to be cut or traded. Despite his speed and pass coverage ability, he wasn’t even running with the second team nickel defense.
 

seesred

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Thomas Howard could be a plan to get some one in who can play. I wonder if they would take an offensive lineman? I hope Graves is looking into this. I like our D-line a lot they will scare people. I think our safety and LB's will be a good group. Just the corners and if Toler goes down what then?

GBR
40
 

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Duck, Dock (wait did I just say Duck Dock - that's a kids game right? Need to say "Goose") is looking like an absolute monster out there. He is a different player with just a new level of motivation. On the Leinart video, he just simply destroyed pro-bowler Faneca. It was sick to watch and I know the video has been posted here.

DRC is looking great as well, going up against Fitz and breaking up pases. Watson lost over 30 lbs and he is looking great as well. Williams is sucking a little bit of wind right now but he will get better with the hazing Dock is putting on him.

Looks like Toler will win the 2nd CB position and we are more than fine at safety. The only small question is the LBs.

I agree that dockett has been an animal in camp (I just got back), but to be fair Faneca has been awful in pass protection the past few years. DRC looks great, the only thing that worries me is corner depth and whoever is playing next to Lenon. I think Lenon will surprise a lot of people expecting him to be awful, I think he will play solid football. Not great but not terrible either. Our dline is going to be vicious this year. I was watching the 1 on 1 dline/oline drills monday and saw that CC was lined up against one of the guys deeper on the depth chart. I leaned over to my buddy and told him someone was about to get taken to school and then CC got past whoever was unfortunate enough to be "blocking" him like he wasn't even there. DD and CC are a handful on the edges, Gabe Watson and big Dan Williams will be eating up space in the middle, and then the opposing OL still has to worry about Joey Porter and any other potential blitzes. It will be fun to watch!

The kool aid never tastes better than the week before the first preseason game.

:D

and this is a lot of talk about a defense that gave up 90 points in its last two games.

Duckjake, even though I appreciate the enthusiasm, and I think it's likely we're improved vs. last year, if you don't mind, I believe I'll wait to see if they can slow down Johnson Walters and Slaton before I start comparing them to that vicious defense buddy had in his first year (man they were fun to watch. The opponents back field looked like a jail break on every play).

Slaton won't be starting, he's going to be a 3rd down back after stinking up the joint all last season. They will have a bruiser starting, most likely Arian Foster or possibly Ben Tate. It will be interesting to see how Kerry Rhodes handles Owen Daniels (assuming he is healthy and playing), Rhodes was always very successful in shutting down TE's while playing in NY and Daniels is about as good as they come. He was on pace for 1000 yards and 10 TD's until blowing out his knee in week 8.
 
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Believe it when I see it. The secondary still scares the hell out of me. Go 3 & 4 wide getting our base defense of the field & I think we're still in trouble. Hope I'm wrong but seeing is believing.
Good post, Bucky!

Yes, when the Cardinals are able to play their base D, they will be a very formidable group. The way to attack the Cardinals, will be with spread formations, 3, 4, even 5 WR's.

Against these formations, unless J-Peezy, DD, CC and the double Wides (Watson and Williams) are getting to the QB it could get ugly!
 

cardsfanmd

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and this is a lot of talk about a defense that gave up 90 points in its last two games.

No, it isn't at all.

That defense featured an injured or missing Campbell, Brown, A-Dub, Rolle, DRC, McFadden, Dansby, Hayes, Ware and Berry. Though we have remained healthy for the most part over the past three years, I find it amazing that people (especially on this board) somehow neglect to or forget to remember how banged up that D was, continually go "espn" and just keep spewing that line out. This defense will be starting a minimum of 6 new guys come Saturday and 4 (Watson, Porter, Rhodes and Toler) are already considered upgrades over their predecessors.
 

cardsfanmd

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Good post, Bucky!

Yes, when the Cardinals are able to play their base D, they will be a very formidable group. The way to attack the Cardinals, will be with spread formations, 3, 4, even 5 WR's.

Against these formations, unless J-Peezy, DD, CC and the double Wides (Watson and Williams) are getting to the QB it could get ugly!

Yup. That is the way to attack any 3-4 based team. The defense was designed to stop the run and typically has 1 LB who can really drop into coverage, whereas the 4-3 has 2. Look at the 3-4 teams in the league and you quickly see that they can all be thrown upon if they do not get after the QB.
 
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Yup. That is the way to attack any 3-4 based team. The defense was designed to stop the run and typically has 1 LB who can really drop into coverage, whereas the 4-3 has 2. Look at the 3-4 teams in the league and you quickly see that they can all be thrown upon if they do not get after the QB.
My point is that the concern for the Cardinals increases with the depth questions at CB specifically and DB generally.
 

cardsfanmd

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My point is that the concern for the Cardinals increases with the depth questions at CB specifically and DB generally.

I definitely agree w/ you in the CB department. I actually think this is the best group of safeties we've had from top to bottom since the team came to the desert though.
 

ASUCHRIS

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I'm still worried about ILB and CB. Tongafau practicing with the first team today is not a good sign. A trade for Thomas Howard would help a lot. He isn't a superstar, but he's 27, averages nearly 100 tackles a game, defends the pass well, has never missed a game and most importantly, he looks like he could be available.

http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2010/08/08/brennan-ready-to-be-thrown-into-the-fire/

Totally agree, the fact that Tongafau is starting now, after plucking him off the street a week ago is terrifying. I don't know much about Howard, but he has to be an improvement.
 

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I don't agree. Our defense last year was one of the worst playoff defenses ever. Some of that has to do with secondary. Some of that has to do with Billy Davis as well, as I see it.

Cardinals D. coordinator has not done a solid job. As LB coach, he may have done a great job it seems, but not as a playcaller. I don't expect that to change this year at all. Clancy Pandergast on other hand was maybe better at X's and O's, and letting him go, was a mistake. However, it's not like he was awesome either. He got ahead of himself at times (vanilla) and was too "exotic" as well.

We need to force offenses to be exotic and change stuff up. Not the other way arround. We need to be in control and I still haven't seen that for a long time. I always see a Cards defense that is adjusting to the opponent and try to slow them down but never stop them and dominate. It's very rare that we allow 10 points and less. A great defensive game for the Cards at the moment is letting 25 points in and making a good play at the end.... That's not domination..... It's escape.....

Put DRC in single coverage at LCB. Use the extra guy on more zone help other places of the field, like RCB, deep right 1/3 etc. Rush 4 lineman. I don't care if that comes from 4 man D-Line or 3 man D-Line and one LB, the difference is not significant. DD, DW, CC, Porter, that's a top 3 D-line in football, without any doubt. Even last year, without Porter, statistically our D-Line was top 3 in all of football. As a coordinator, you can't let up that many points with such a good pressure on QB's.

We have a corner that can handle 1 on 1 matchups. Do like Jets, isolate him and let the extra help come other places on the field, and let the "DRC island" be the "weak" spot in single coverage. DRC has made plenty of mistakes in our cover 3 zone assignments in reading plays, in coordinating with other players zones both in time and space. That can't continue this year. He is made to play man coverage like Revis, Nnamdi and Bailey. He is that talented. Period. And the Jets were forced to be exotic in the front 7 to apply pressure with 4 man. They could do that with the brilliant mind that Ryan is. We don't even need that. We can rush the 4 conservatively and still apply pressure, much like the Vikes.

I'm not sure that we schematically and philosophically are doing a great job on defense. We blitz too much IMO. Clancy had the reverse problem. He played vanilla too much, which is significantly worse from blitzing too much, it's a defense that is not defending anything. It's surrending to the offense while the defense is staying more on the field, getting more tired.

Calling defense can be simple, as long as you have the talent. Having 4 great lineman that apply the pressure and problems for the O-Line and QB. One great corner that can handle 1 on 1 matchups with almost anyone. And rest of the defense needs to play alot of zone and double teams; without 5th rusher and a corner on an island, there are plenty of defenders and plenty of double teams. Good fundamental tackling and intensity are important. To be more precise, it's 6 against 4 not counting the 1 on 1 corner, a with a RB most of the time used and ILB assigned, it's 5 against 3 for the rest. A good coordinator can always find a way to double all of the 3 with 5, and shutting them down (almost) no matter how they line up and run their patterns. Jets defense last year did this very well.

The most important part of playing QB is to know where and when the single coverage will end up during each play. That's where you need to deliver the football. However, with a good corner, it does not need to be a secret and something confusing to the QB's. Revis single coverage? Not a secret, rather a rule. It has to be the same with DRC. Those throws are low percentage throws and they need to be allowed, despite that the single coverage is easy to read for the QB, even from the very start of the play. The rest of defense becomes much better. A DRC throw last year was rather high percentage, but that's with him being 10 yards of his man. Most of those were quick underneath patterns. We need him im more agressive man assignments.

What i mean with all this is that we have the tools and talent on the necessary positions to have the best defense in NFL. We have a top 3 D-Line. We have a corner that potentially can be called a shut down corner if he gets the chance to show off those man to man skills. We are more talented than most of the offenses on these key positions, and the offenses should find exotic ways arround that problem. Not the other way arround.

We don't need to be exotic and fool defenses by million of looks to try to fool them where those 2 (3 with 5 man rushing) single man coverages will end up. Last year, we fooled our defense by doing this, just as much as our opponents. The more exotic you are, the harder it is to execute the plays correctly.

The more talent you have, the less you have to rely on being exotic, and perfect a much smaller playbook. I hope we will see a more old school defense, more predictable, but on other hand utilizing the talent most effectively.

With Hayes out and Dansby gone, it's also a concern how we will do against the run. Problem has always been the pass. However, if stay similar philosophically against the pass with lots of zone, even from DRC, and I assume we have taken a step backwards against the run, I'm afraid the defense will have just as many problems this year, if not more. And there is less help from offense is scoring alot of points.

I hope we see more agressive man to man and 4 man rush with all that talent and there are some promising indications that this will occur. To me, this will be the most interesting observation of game 1, wheter we will keep the same philosophy on defense. For sure, the one on offense, will change alot.
 
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