Deluded by an illusion

[ChiCard]

I just got back from Detroit and have several observations to make. If some are repeats of other threads I'm sorry but I haven't had time to view the others. First and foremost detroit stinks to high heaven. That is a team that's going now where. They have no running game and a QB who completed about half his passes yet they managed to make us look awful. All of our wishful thinking from the pre-season and training camp was just that, wishful thinking. While Blake had a great day statistically he was in essense "Jake part II". The fumble and interception promptly turned into 14 points and Bolden spolied his debut by playing the tough guy and refusing to make a fair catch when surrounded by tacklers. What's worse then that however is our inabilty to play special teams. Every posssion starts beyond the 30 and with the opposition seemingly 1 tackle away from breaking every kick. That punt return featured numerous broken tackles. Anyone who taped the game, please take a look at how many of our starters are playing on the kick teams and they still can't make a tackle. We have absolutely no pass rush and I can't imagine what's going to happen when we play the teams with good QB's after seeing what happened today. I think the Lions ran the pass to the FB out of the back field about 7 times, ywice for TD's and we never came close to stopping it. We are in trouble boys. Mac looked pained throughout the entire game. But he shares the blame as well. All of those wasted first half time-outs cost us at least a 10 and maybe a 14 point lead. This team is on the margin in every aspect of the game. The pubt return took away their momentum and they went right in the tank thereafter. I never said this before today but w/o a significant improvement along the DL I fear Mac will be gone before the end of the season. There's no deodorant strong enough for today's performance, or lack thereof.

 

[pinnacle]

chi card..thanks for your observations..

I do not think blake is like plummer...for the 1st time since 1997 we scored a td drive on our first series and came out moving the ball...the 1998 - 2002 span is pretty much jakes tenure in arizona. blake also threw 3 tds ...we actually seemed to do well in the red zone - another one of jakes problems..

blake did make the 2 mistakes...but based on what I saw it is too early to say that will be a trend (it was a trend with jake) .

unless we sign someone for the dline and play better on special teams...it is going to be a long season. at least our points in this game did not come at the end on meaningless drives when the game was out of reach.

 

[ChiCard]

No qquestion Blake and Plummer are two different guys but in essense they are the same. And that's my point Blakes coolness under fire will avail us nothing but stats if the effect is the same as Plummer fumbling or throwing away the game. A proven vet like him should have taken a hold of the game and led us back after it was 21-21 not buried us. See what I mean?

 

[pinnacle]

I felt like blake was keeping us in the game in the 1st half..he seemed to be carrying us... jake kind of put us in a hole to begin with and rarely carried us..

I see your point - but after 2 turnovers I am not ready to call it a trend....I hope it does not continue...

 

[MadCardDisease]

Can you say over Reaction!

#1 Detriot is not as bad as you think. Yes they have no running back but Harrington is the real deal and both of their Lines are solid.

#2 So Boldin made a rookie mistake on one play. That hardly tarnishes his incredible game.

#3 I agree that our Special teams sucked. In fact they cost us the game. However I beleive that Special teams can be fixed.

Yes this was an Ugly game that the Cards played sloppy. These things can be fixed.

The only negatives that I'm concerned about are the pass rush and lack of sucess of the offensive line. We all knew that or pass rush was non existance. However the supposed strength of our team struggled again. Dishman showed that he can't be count on. Lets hope that our O-Line has more sucess when Davis and Garcia get back.

 

[ChiCard]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
Can you say over Reaction!

#1 Detriot is not as bad as you think. Yes they have no running back but Harrington is the real deal and both of their Lines are solid.

Sorry to disagree but they are awful. Harrington is just ordinary. The Cards secondary and lack of a pass rush made his day.

#2 So Boldin made a rookie mistake on one play. That hardly tarnishes his incredible game.

Sorry to disagree again but his personal accomplishment, in light of the back breaking play made out of bravado DOES tarnish the game.

#3 I agree that our Special teams sucked. In fact they cost us the game. However I beleive that Special teams can be fixed.

How? We are playing the starters as it is now?

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
Can you say over Reaction!

#1 Detriot is not as bad as you think. Yes they have no running back but Harrington is the real deal and both of their Lines are solid.

#2 So Boldin made a rookie mistake on one play. That hardly tarnishes his incredible game.

#3 I agree that our Special teams sucked. In fact they cost us the game. However I beleive that Special teams can be fixed.

Yes this was an Ugly game that the Cards played sloppy. These things can be fixed.

The only negatives that I'm concerned about are the pass rush and lack of sucess of the offensive line. We all knew that or pass rush was non existance. However the supposed strength of our team struggled again. Dishman showed that he can't be count on. Lets hope that our O-Line has more sucess when Davis and Garcia get back.

Quality Post.


I was thinking that when Garcia and Roundtree return Dish may be the one cut. He was not effective at all today.

I'm suprised I haven't seen more positive posts about Boldin. Yes his muff was very costly but I think we can all agree that he more than made up for it. 200 + YDS receiving just doesn't happen that often and almost never with a rookie.

Think back to last year when the O-line struggled in a game and how many passing yds this team had. Yes the Lions DB's are awful but Blake and Boldin led the league in yds at their positions.

The front seven did a decent job against the run as well.

When given half a chance Emmitt did rather well himself. Neither he or Shipp got enough touches but the O-line gets the blame their. Sully did a great job of taking what the D was giving us.

I'm not going to focus on the negatives because the post would be too long and everyone else seems to have that area covered.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Originally posted by ChiCard
No qquestion Blake and Plummer are two different guys but in essense they are the same. And that's my point Blakes coolness under fire will avail us nothing but stats if the effect is the same as Plummer fumbling or throwing away the game. A proven vet like him should have taken a hold of the game and led us back after it was 21-21 not buried us. See what I mean?

I've got the game on tape chicard, but I just can't bear to watch it. its just too painful man.

and I agree that those two mistakes by blake that you mentioned were horrendous, back-breaking, pick any adjective that you want, because they were killers.

but, I say blake wing a pass, on the run, off his back foot, twenty yards downfield to freddy on the first possession. that itself is enough to give me hope.

I watched denvers game today chicard, and believe jake stunk to high heaven.

blake the flake is greater than jake the mistake.

 

[sly fly]

To diminish Q's performance because of a muffed punt is sadly unfortunate. Instead of focusing on his ONE negative play, you need to look at the big picture. Q saved the Cards ass time after time. One muffed punt doesn't equate to what you're claiming as "bravado".

That was one of the most electrifying performances I've ever seen.

Shame on you.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by ChiCard

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
Can you say over Reaction!

#1 Detriot is not as bad as you think. Yes they have no running back but Harrington is the real deal and both of their Lines are solid.

Sorry to disagree but they are awful. Harrington is just ordinary. The Cards secondary and lack of a pass rush made his day.

#2 So Boldin made a rookie mistake on one play. That hardly tarnishes his incredible game.

Sorry to disagree again but his personal accomplishment, in light of the back breaking play made out of bravado DOES tarnish the game.

#3 I agree that our Special teams sucked. In fact they cost us the game. However I beleive that Special teams can be fixed.

How? We are playing the starters as it is now?

#1 I'm not saying that the Lions offense is Great or anything. However they do Have a Very good Offensive Line. Also I agree that Harrington had lots of time. However he put the ball where it needed to be on almost every throw. He didn't make any mistakes which are common with a young QB. To me he didn't look that bad.

#2 Boldin had an incredible game. He is a rookie and made one mistake. What do you expect from a rookie? 400 yards 5 TDs and a Punt Return. I hardly believe that this loss was all his fault. I'd hate to see the score without Boldin in there.

#3 Special team doesn't take talent. It takes technique and displine. Everyone needs to learn to do their job. From what I saw this wasn't the case. Obviously they need to spend more time on this in practice.

 

[ChiCard]

Originally posted by sly fly
To diminish Q's performance because of a muffed punt is sadly unfortunate. Instead of focusing on his ONE negative play, you need to look at the big picture. Q saved the Cards ass time after time. One muffed punt doesn't equate to what you're claiming as "bravado".

That was one of the most electrifying performances I've ever seen.

Shame on you.

AND

"#2 Boldin had an incredible game. He is a rookie and made one mistake. What do you expect from a rookie? 400 yards 5 TDs and a Punt Return. I hardly believe that this loss was all his fault. I'd hate to see the score without Boldin in there."

Trouble is Sly, I am looking at the big picture. I'm not saying I wanted Boldin to do more, I'm saying I wanted him to do the ordinary. It was sensless to try and advance that punt with three Lions players literally within feet of him. This team has no margin of error and as such can not afford critical errors of that nature. Would you be satisfied with records and stats every week and a 2-14 season? We can't bounce back from critical mistakes and every player on the squad needs to be aware of that. The shame here is not on me for pointing this out. I'm not saying it was all his fault but he wasted his own tremendous effort by a critcial lapse that was brought about by bravado as I said. His attitude of "no fair catch for me" cost us any chance to come back, in my opinion. As for Blake he's terrific as well but in the end accomplished nothing for a franchise that needs to fight two opponents every week. One on the field, and the other in the minds of their numerous detractors who can always say "see, they're the same old Cardinals". We are behind the development of Houston and I'm glad we don't play them this year.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by ChiCard
AND

"#2 Boldin had an incredible game. He is a rookie and made one mistake. What do you expect from a rookie? 400 yards 5 TDs and a Punt Return. I hardly believe that this loss was all his fault. I'd hate to see the score without Boldin in there."

Trouble is Sly, I am looking at the big picture. I'm not saying I wanted Boldin to do more, I'm saying I wanted him to do the ordinary. It was sensless to try and advance that punt with three Lions players literally within feet of him. This team has no margin of error and as such can not afford critical errors of that nature. Would you be satisfied with records and stats every week and a 2-14 season? We can't bounce back from critical mistakes and every player on the squad needs to be aware of that. The shame here is not on me for pointing this out. I'm not saying it was all his fault but he wasted his own tremendous effort by a critcial lapse that was brought about by bravado as I said. His attitude of "no fair catch for me" cost us any chance to come back, in my opinion. As for Blake he's terrific as well but in the end accomplished nothing for a franchise that needs to fight two opponents every week. One on the field, and the other in the minds of their numerous detractors who can always say "see, they're the same old Cardinals". We are behind the development of Houston and I'm glad we don't play them this year.

I wouldn't say the muffed punt cost us the game, or negates all that Quan did in the game. That seems excessively negative. Yes, he should have called for a fair catch, but he is still a rookie and will make some rookie mistakes. He was trying to make something happen on every play and he will learn that sometimes you have to just forget it and move on to the next one. It's all part of the learning curve.

 

[wierwolf]

Call it want you want. Yes we Lost to the pussycats.. Jake threw for over 300 yards. Noone mentions that too... He had 2 mistakes, Boldin had one. I think penalties killed us besides those turnovers.We'd be close to the goalline then BAM!!!! penalty. What'd we have like 13 or something? I also think we could have countered the pass rush of the lions with a little more play-action. Hopefully these are mistakes that can be justified against Seattle. I think our pass RUSH was good the coverage behind was not. All I kept hearing was how the DL was in Harrington's face. We didn't get sacks because all he had to do is dump it off to the FB. I think we have vastly improved from the team of last year.

 

[Chainthroer]

Wierwolf - I think you meant to say Blake instead of Jake.
Jake didn't do anything for Denver, except throw 3 interceptions. If it were not for Portis and the fact they played the
Bengals, the Broncos would not have had scored so many points. I'd rather have Blake than Jake!! And, I'm sure gald we don't have Kordel!!

 

[ChiCard]

Originally posted by Renz
I wouldn't say the muffed punt cost us the game, or negates all that Quan did in the game. That seems excessively negative. Yes, he should have called for a fair catch, but he is still a rookie and will make some rookie mistakes. He was trying to make something happen on every play and he will learn that sometimes you have to just forget it and move on to the next one. It's all part of the learning curve.

I didn't say it cost us the game, I said:"His attitude of "no fair catch for me" cost us any chance to come back, in my opinion"

 

[Snakester]

First I liked what I saw of the offense, we did good at every position except for Dishman. I am going to re-watch the game today and post on it this week but one clear thing that I seen all game long was how bad we are at the CB position. Until we sign or trade for someone it will only get worse. If Barret went down I think every team will have forty point games against us. And who thinks we shouldn't have signed Dan Wilkenson now. Our two worst positions this year were defensive line and CB and we did not upgrade either in free agency. Boy it is hurting us now. Hopefully some teams will be to stupid to pass on us and try to run instead. Boldin looked great. Foster didn't.

 

[JeffGollin]

Some observations -

1. We lost.

2. We didn't have to.

3. Part of the reason was because of mental mistakes (which are correctable)

4. Part of why we lost were due to physical mistakes (which may or may not be correctable)

5. Part of the reason was because of talent deficiencies.

6. And there were some "pluses" - but the above negatives unfortunately outweighed the poositives.

Mental mistakes buried us:

- 12 penalties (7 having to do with crowd noise) plus 2 or 3 unnecessary time outs (also having to do with crowd noise). This isn't Pop Warner for chrissakes.

- "'I have to get the play in faster,' offensive coordinator Jerry Sullivan said." Well. yeah! (Virtually every offensive down involved a race to get the play off between 5 seconds and zero on the play clock)

- The Boldin muff (Do we have anyone on the field who's supposed to warn him if a defender is about to leap down his throat?)

- The Blake pick (Was it a Blake brain-cramp? Or did Gilmore run the wrong route or fail to make the right adjustment)?

- In zone coverage in the end zone, you have to pick up the first man in your zone and then switch to playing him man to man. Otherwise, he'll be open as he moves out of your zone and then QB will hit him. That's what happened on that Detroit TD catch in the back of the end zone.

- Our OC, Special Teams Coach, O-Line Coach and (of course the buck stops at) Coach Mac - must do a better job of clock management, preparation and game-day coaching.

Then there were the physical mistakes:

- Are Blake's hands too small? Not only did the ball fall from his hands during the fumble, but it happened 2 other times (only the ball fortunately bounced right back up into Blake's arms). If there's a problem here, maybe he has to be re-taught to hold onto the ball with both hands when manouvering.

- Blake also stumbled a couple of times when scrambling.

- Levar Woods whiffed badly on the Drummond TD return.

- Our coverage teams consistently gave up too many return yards which surrendered field position throughout the game.

- Bryant Johnson has to make that diving TD catch.

- Questions - Do our players spend enough time on special teams? And if they do, are they receiving good enough coaching?

Talent deficiencies -

- Does anyone still feel that Renaldo Hill has enough speed to run with opposing RB's let alone receivers?

- Dishman got mauled. I thought physical domination was a strength of our O-Line and not vice versa.

- There was a noticeable "dent" on the right inside of our defensive line on running plays. Maybe things will be better when Bell gets back, but even if he does, there's no depth at DT.

There was no pressure up the middle on our pass rush. This, in turn, hurts our outside pass rush. Problem - same guy. Lack of talent. Bell should help. But what happens should he go back down?

The "pluses" -

- Anquan Boldin has staked a large claim on the #2 receiver position - and then some.

- But we still need a playmaker to operate at #1 opposite Anquan or else they will always double Boldin. Foster isn't the answer and Gilmore and Johnson haven't stepped up yet. They're gonna have to - and pretty danged soon.

- Jeff Blake did a terrific job of using his feet to buy time and then hit an open man. Those stats weren't accidental. He's good. (But those mistakes must be eliminated). How about 6 completions to his TE? (Long time since we've seen this)

- Emmitt - his second effort, his veteran leadership on the field. If you give him the slightest of openings (which we only did a couple of times) he's gonna beat you. And it's nice to have Marcel as a change of pace and for depth.

- Freddie Jones - Loved the way he shook his man to get open on the TD grab.

But the bottom line is that we lost. The only way to prove that we won't continue to lose is to start winning.

We can start by eliminating the mental mistakes.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by pinnacle
I felt like blake was keeping us in the game in the 1st half..he seemed to be carrying us... jake kind of put us in a hole to begin with and rarely carried us..

I see your point - but after 2 turnovers I am not ready to call it a trend....I hope it does not continue...

It was the timing of them that made it so bad he got away with 3 shaky throws in the first half. The pick looked like he threw a different route than the WR ran but you can't do that at that point in the game, no excuse. THe fumble again untouched can't do that.

That said the game turned on the punt return for the TD, the muff by Anquan, and the drop by Bryant Johnson before the FG. Take those plays back and we probably win.

If Blake makes those mistakes at that time often I'll be mad too but overall I think he played so much better than Jake it was fun to watch.

 

[conraddobler]

Agreed it was refreshing to see a QB actually use the first half. Blake made some mistakes but the difference was we were in position to win the game until turnovers killed us.

Let's see how this plays out the rest of the year.

 

[Redmark]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Some observations -

- The Boldin muff (Do we have anyone on the field who's supposed to warn him if a defender is about to leap down his throat?)

Then there were the physical mistakes:

- Are Blake's hands too small? Not only did the ball fall from his hands during the fumble, but it happened 2 other times (only the ball fortunately bounced right back up into Blake's arms). If there's a problem here, maybe he has to be re-taught to hold onto the ball with both hands when manouvering.

- Blake also stumbled a couple of times when scrambling.

Thanks for the insight and balanced assessment.

On the Boldin muff:
I watch in Sports Bar with no sound. What was the replay challenge? It looked like a catch and fumble to me. Surprised the challenge was not upheld. Did the refs signal TD - because they posted the score than took it off. Certainly ChiCard is right he was coming up 10 yards and should have signaled.

On Blake:
I have same concerns. I'm wondering if it could also be lack of stamina. That was a very long exhausting game and he just looked tired in the later stages when the ball got away from him and he was stumbling around. Possible remedy is to run the ball more which sure seemed to be working in the second quarter.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by Redmark
Thanks for the insight and balanced assessment.

On the Boldin muff:
I watch in Sports Bar with no sound. What was the replay challenge? It looked like a catch and fumble to me. Surprised the challenge was not upheld. Did the refs signal TD - because they posted the score than took it off. Certainly ChiCard is right he was coming up 10 yards and should have signaled.

Ref said he never had posesssion and therefore it was a Muff.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Redmark
Thanks for the insight and balanced assessment.

On the Boldin muff:
I watch in Sports Bar with no sound. What was the replay challenge? It looked like a catch and fumble to me. Surprised the challenge was not upheld. Did the refs signal TD - because they posted the score than took it off. Certainly ChiCard is right he was coming up 10 yards and should have signaled.

On Blake:
I have same concerns. I'm wondering if it could also be lack of stamina. That was a very long exhausting game and he just looked tired in the later stages when the ball got away from him and he was stumbling around. Possible remedy is to run the ball more which sure seemed to be working in the second quarter.

The rule was he never had possession so it was a muff. I had captions at that point and that's what they were discussing at least.

I wondered about the stamina thing too, I know people say dry heat but if he's playing in 100 degrees every home game is he going to have balls slipping out of his sweaty hand? Need to hold it with 2 hands I guess.

We should have been running on the drive where he fumbled anyways but to be fair we were already near 300 yards passing so it's hard to fault Sully for going for the jugular.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Originally posted by ChiCard
I didn't say it cost us the game, I said:"His attitude of "no fair catch for me" cost us any chance to come back, in my opinion"

I've agreed with most of the things you have said ChiCard. This loss is particularily disheartening to me, because we kept hearing how things were different, and how this year was going to be different, yet this game reeked of the "same old cardinals". My delusions of grandeur were erased pretty quickly. It's kinda strange: some teams seem to have a knack for winning, and others for losing. A team like Notre Dame, who had no business winning against Washington State on saturday, managed to win, whereas the Cardinals, against all statistics and logic, managed to piss it away.

In regards to Anquan, I believe your criticism of him is excessive. Sure it was a stupid mistake, but without Anquan, we wouldn't have been in the game anyway.