Deshaun Watson

[RugbyMuffin]

Taj Boyd dude seriously.

He's very much a QB before a runner.

You do understand in TWO national title games this kid has THROWN for over 800 yards on These Alabama defenses. I don't care who you are that's impresive

+1

 

[RugbyMuffin]

He also had a QBR of 67 last night lol

True. Very True.

He also got this last night.

You must be registered for see images

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Watson is a winner, can play in the pocket, he is not scared to getting hit, can make accurate throws, keep his standards against best competitors, he is quick, can make plays with his feet, extending plays
I heard comparisons with Griffin III, I dont see it
He is much more similiar to Mariota

Keim would take him in a heartbeat at 13, but he is going to be selected earlier

+1 and +1

 

[RugbyMuffin]

SMH.

To the nay-sayers, I say you are all making a very good argument for your case.

Yet, my question to you is, if not Watson, then who ? The Cardinals are picking at #13, if Watson is there, you are saying the Cardinals do not pick him. That is fine.

Then what is your plan for the quarterback situation going forward?

I say this because if anything has doomed the Cardinals over there recent history (aka getting a new stadium) it is the complete lack of investing in certain positions.

When Whiz was here it was the offensive line. Now we are dealing with the fact the team has zero inside linebackers. Are we going to make the same mistake with the quarterback position ?

 

[Southpaw]

SMH.

To the nay-sayers, I say you are all making a very good argument for your case.

Yet, my question to you is, if not Watson, then who ? The Cardinals are picking at #13, if Watson is there, you are saying the Cardinals do not pick him. That is fine.

Then what is your plan for the quarterback situation going forward?

I say this because if anything has doomed the Cardinals over there recent history (aka getting a new stadium) it is the complete lack of investing in certain positions.

When Whiz was here it was the offensive line. Now we are dealing with the fact the team has zero inside linebackers. Are we going to make the same mistake with the quarterback position ?

If Mahomes Jr. is sitting in the 2nd...... grab him. My guess is he goes first round. Highest ceiling in theQB draft. Palmer is good for at least a year and Mahomes does not need to play first year

 

[daves]

He and Tahj Boyd are practically the same guy.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tajh-boyd-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/deshaun-watson-1.html

If you only compare each player's freshman through junior seasons (i.e. apples to apples), they don't look nearly as similar:

Boyd:

Year    Class  G   Cmp   Att   Pct     Yds    Y/A    AY/A   TD   Int     Rate
2010    FR     7    33    63   52.4    329    5.2     4.3    4     3    107.7
2011    SO    14   298   499   59.7   3828    7.7     7.9   33    12    141.2
2012    JR    13   287   427   67.2   3896    9.1     9.4   36    13    165.6
3 years            618   989   62.5   8053    8.1     8.3   73    28    149.6

Watson:

Year    Class  G   Cmp   Att   Pct     Yds    Y/A    AY/A   TD    Int    Rate
2014    FR     8    93   137   67.9   1466   10.7    12.1   14     2    188.6
2015    SO    15   333   491   67.8   4109    8.4     8.6   35    13    156.3
2016    JR    15   388   579   67.0   4593    7.9     8.0   41    17    151.1
Career             814  1207   67.4  10168    8.4     8.7   90    32    157.5
*Bowl stats not included for 2016.

...dbs

 

[Jetstream Green]

It will never be a good year for the QB position from now on, because the college programs no longer run offenses that develop the position. Watson, or my favorite Kizer, are just as much as a crap shoot as any going forward. Knowing this, then it might be wise to pull the trigger now on a signal caller and make it a direct attempt and not screwing around till the later rounds for a steal

 

[Bodha]

If you only compare each player's freshman through junior seasons (i.e. apples to apples), they don't look nearly as similar:

Boyd:

Year    Class  G   Cmp   Att   Pct     Yds    Y/A    AY/A   TD   Int     Rate
2010    FR     7    33    63   52.4    329    5.2     4.3    4     3    107.7
2011    SO    14   298   499   59.7   3828    7.7     7.9   33    12    141.2
2012    JR    13   287   427   67.2   3896    9.1     9.4   36    13    165.6
3 years            618   989   62.5   8053    8.1     8.3   73    28    149.6

Watson:

Year    Class  G   Cmp   Att   Pct     Yds    Y/A    AY/A   TD    Int    Rate
2014    FR     8    93   137   67.9   1466   10.7    12.1   14     2    188.6
2015    SO    15   333   491   67.8   4109    8.4     8.6   35    13    156.3
2016    JR    15   388   579   67.0   4593    7.9     8.0   41    17    151.1
Career             814  1207   67.4  10168    8.4     8.7   90    32    157.5
*Bowl stats not included for 2016.

...dbs

What do you mean? They look extremely similar. What is so different about these players?

Games are almost identical
PCT is close enough. The difference between 62.5 and 67.4 is a 2-3 dropped balls per game.
Yards is similar. +3-400 yards spread over 12 games is nothing (remember those 2-3 balls)
Y/A is nearly identical.
TDs/INTs are follow the same trend. Alot of TDs...Alot of INTs.
Rating is both very high.

Same school, same system, same stats. Ive never seen a more consistent and thorough prediction of a player based on comparison.

Maybe im wrong, who knows. But Ive got alot of ammo on my side.

 

[daves]

What do you mean? They look extremely similar. What is so different about these players?

CT is close enough. The difference between 62.5 and 67.4 is a 2-3 dropped balls per game.

The difference between 62.5 and 67.4 is significant.

Yards is similar. +3-400 yards spread over 12 games is nothing (remember those 2-3 balls)

25% more yards is significant.

Y/A is nearly identical.

Yep, but Watson's 8.4 is better than Boyd's 8.1.

TDs/INTs are follow the same trend. Alot of TDs...Alot of INTs.

Close, but Boyd's ratio is 2.6:1, Watson's is 2.8:1.

Rating is both very high.

Yep, but Watson's is higher.

Close, but statistically, Watson is consistently better.

I don't follow college ball and don't really have an opinion on Watson, aside from that he looked GREAT vs. Alabama... but statistically, Watson was better than Boyd.

The one thing i do notice in favor of Boyd is that his Y/A and Rating got better every year, while Watson's got a little worse each year.

...dbs

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

What do you mean? They look extremely similar. What is so different about these players?

Games are almost identical
PCT is close enough. The difference between 62.5 and 67.4 is a 2-3 dropped balls per game.
Yards is similar. +3-400 yards spread over 12 games is nothing (remember those 2-3 balls)
Y/A is nearly identical.
TDs/INTs are follow the same trend. Alot of TDs...Alot of INTs.
Rating is both very high.

Same school, same system, same stats. Ive never seen a more consistent and thorough prediction of a player based on comparison.

Maybe im wrong, who knows. But Ive got alot of ammo on my side.

So, you're assuming 2-3 drops/game as a basis for your analysis. What about just 2-3 terrible throws.

I don't care if their stats were identical, they're not the same player and basing it on college stats is a reach at best and a very weak argument. Different schedule, different teammates, etc. are all factors. I'm sure I could go back and find a QB with similar stats at Michigan as Brady while playing the same system and it would be just as meaningless.

 

[Southpaw]

It will never be a good year for the QB position from now on, because the college programs no longer run offenses that develop the position. Watson, or my favorite Kizer, are just as much as a crap shoot as any going forward. Knowing this, then it might be wise to pull the trigger now on a signal caller and make it a direct attempt and not screwing around till the later rounds for a steal

Disagree. The NFL is evolving. Shotgun formations. Pistol formations. Empty backfields. Hurry up no huddle offenses. Spread formations. etc.

 

[Bodha]

So, you're assuming 2-3 drops/game as a basis for your analysis. What about just 2-3 terrible throws.

I don't care if their stats were identical, they're not the same player and basing it on college stats is a reach at best and a very weak argument. Different schedule, different teammates, etc. are all factors. I'm sure I could go back and find a QB with similar stats at Michigan as Brady while playing the same system and it would be just as meaningless.

Do you realize how ridiculous it is that youre bashing Boyd for having the "far inferior and embarrassing" 62.5 pct compared to Watson 67.4?

Tom Brady has a career pct of 63.8. Carson Palmer has an identical 62.5

Youre bashing a 62.5 which is more than adequate to win you a superbowl. And yet Boyd was a bust at the next level.

And they arent the same person. But ignoring the fact that nearly everything about them is nearly identical, other than their parents, isnt relevant, is just willful stubbornness.

Acting like theres some enormous difference between 8.4 and 8.1 YPA. Yeah..3 inches. Its psychotic

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Do you realize how ridiculous it is that youre bashing Boyd for having the "far inferior and embarrassing" 62.5 pct compared to Watson 67.4?

Tom Brady has a career pct of 63.8. Carson Palmer has an identical 62.5

Youre bashing a 62.5 which is more than adequate to win you a superbowl. And yet Boyd was a bust at the next level.

And they arent the same person. But ignoring the fact that nearly everything about them is nearly identical, other than their parents, isnt relevant, is just willful stubbornness.

Acting like theres some enormous difference between 8.4 and 8.1 YPA. Yeah..3 inches. Its psychotic

Where did I bash his 62.5% pct.? I said your assumption that it was 2-3 dropped passes/game was short sighted. Willful stubbornness is trying to tie their college stats to their pro prospect status. They are completely irrelevant.

 

[Bodha]

Willful stubbornness is trying to tie their college stats to their pro prospect status. They are completely irrelevant.

Are they? Whats the combine for? Would you draft a pass rusher with zero career sacks? Stats are absolutely relevant.

If Watson and Boyd were from different schools or different time periods, then it would be irrelevant. Both have extremely similar stats, but it would just be a coincidence in that scenario.

But 2 guys. Same school. Same system. Same playing style. Similar level of success. And same stats? Its not even an argument.

As said before, neither one of us know one way or the other. Maybe Watson is a HOFr. But the link between him and Boyd 100% should play a factor in pre-draft assessments.

 

[oaken1]

Are they? Whats the combine for? Would you draft a pass rusher with zero career sacks? Stats are absolutely relevant.

If Watson and Boyd were from different schools or different time periods, then it would be irrelevant. Both have extremely similar stats, but it would just be a coincidence in that scenario.

But 2 guys. Same school. Same system. Same playing style. Similar level of success. And same stats? Its not even an argument.

As said before, neither one of us know one way or the other. Maybe Watson is a HOFr. But the link between him and Boyd 100% should play a factor in pre-draft assessments.

I agree.

the deciding factor will be what Watson has between the ears...if he is top notch he can be highly successful....but if he is easily distracted he will bust hard most likely.... but such is the case with most players coming out of college right?

 

[Bodha]

I agree.

the deciding factor will be what Watson has between the ears...if he is top notch he can be highly successful....but if he is easily distracted he will bust hard most likely.... but such is the case with most players coming out of college right?

The bigger factor IMO is that he doesnt play in a pro system. He plays in a read-option/air raid, always in shotgun system. He doesnt get under center. He doesnt call plays.

Watson has been elite in his system. The NFL is not his system.

Its like if you are the worlds greatest checkers player. That doesnt mean youre also good at chess.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think, like Dak Prescott, Watson has a work ethic and skill set to stick in the NFL. I don't know what his ceiling is, but I know he will work hard enough to at least hang around. That being said, he may never be better than Tyrod Taylor or Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

[football karma]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...on-senior-bowl-will-train-with-jordan-palmer/

The Cardinals wont lack for inside info on Deshaun should he be there at 13

 

[Jetstream Green]

The bigger factor IMO is that he doesnt play in a pro system. He plays in a read-option/air raid, always in shotgun system. He doesnt get under center. He doesnt call plays.

Watson has been elite in his system. The NFL is not his system.

Its like if you are the worlds greatest checkers player. That doesnt mean youre also good at chess.

But this I believe is the future of the NFL, simplified spread offense crap because the college well will run dry to run any other system... get ready for checkers lol

 

[Bodha]

But this I believe is the future of the NFL, simplified spread offense crap because the college well will run dry to run any other system... get ready for checkers lol

I feel like theyve been saying that for years. Chip Kelly, the air raid/read option/fast offense King, was a colossal failure, despite the fact he had the perfect QB to run his style offense.

So if Chip Kelly fails, I dont see how anyone else can succeed.

I do think offenses are getting simpler. Truth is players are dumber and many cant process an NFL playbook, so you have to scale it back.

 

[Buckybird]

I feel like theyve been saying that for years. Chip Kelly, the air raid/read option/fast offense King, was a colossal failure, despite the fact he had the perfect QB to run his style offense.

So if Chip Kelly fails, I dont see how anyone else can succeed.

I do think offenses are getting simpler. Truth is players are dumber and many cant process an NFL playbook, so you have to scale it back.

Agree about Kelly & many of us called it.

You can see bits & pieces of many different college offenses ran by coaches around the NFL throughout an NFL game including the Cards. BA & Palmer ran plays out of the pistol many many times this year without the threat of Palmer pulling it down & running.

 

[WildBB]

I think he's an option, just not at 13. If they want they could trade into the back end of the 1st Rd. and take a flyer on him, if they're enamored enough.

 

[ajcardfan]

Bump.

Interesting thread to reflect back on. Many of the exact same arguments for and against Murray in his thread are in this one.

 

[Solar7]

Bump.

Interesting thread to reflect back on. Many of the exact same arguments for and against Murray in his thread are in this one.

Except his true NFL QB size, multiple years of play in the best conference in football, and obvious 100% commitment to the sport, yeah, similar...

 

[ajcardfan]

Except his true NFL QB size, multiple years of play in the best conference in football, and obvious 100% commitment to the sport, yeah, similar...

Yet, many of.the same arguments are being voiced. Of COURSE they are not identical situations. That doesn't happen.