Developing Len, Warren, Goodwin & Ennis

Mainstreet

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If the Suns had any realistic opportunity to draft Jahlil Okafor I would be more interested but he clearly appears to be the #1 overall pick. If any team wants to move up to grab him, the Celtics appear to have more than enough ammunition to do it with all their draft picks.
 

AzStevenCal

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If the Suns had any realistic opportunity to draft Jahlil Okafor I would be more interested but he clearly appears to be the #1 overall pick. If any team wants to move up to grab him, the Celtics appear to have more than enough ammunition to do it with all their draft picks.

A month ago I thought we had a small but reasonable chance at him but now, I think you're right. He was always the number one prospect but of late more of the experts have jumped on his bandwagon. Instead of Jefferson he's now drawing Tim Duncan comparisons (from people who know what they're talking about, not just me). Also, Philadelphia is growing less enamored of both Noel and Embiid so they are less likely to be a trade partner. I thought with the twins being from that area that we might have the basis of a trade but now it's gone beyond highly doubtful.

Steve
 

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Below is a link to a good article written by by Jonathan Tjarks at RealGM on 1-30-15 about Archie Goodwin's decision to leave Kentucky and enter the NBA. An argument could be made, Archie would have been better off staying at Kentucky so he could have gone earlier in the draft. It's still hard to believe Archie is only 20 years of age and he will not turn 21 until August.

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/236466/Hurry-Up-And-Wait
 

slinslin

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Below is a link to a good article written by by Jonathan Tjarks at RealGM on 1-30-15 about Archie Goodwin's decision to leave Kentucky and enter the NBA. An argument could be made, Archie would have been better off staying at Kentucky so he could have gone earlier in the draft. It's still hard to believe Archie is only 20 years of age and he will not turn 21 until August.

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/236466/Hurry-Up-And-Wait

Or look at Poythress who would have been a first rounder and now might never make a NBA roster.

Staying at Kentucky is a stupid decision for any player that can go first round.
 
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AzStevenCal

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It's a nice little PR piece for Goodwin but someone tell me again why it's exciting to see a young player shoot 44% in a league that laughs at the idea of defense?

Steve
 

Mainstreet

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Or look at Poythress who would have been a first rounder and now might never make a NBA roster.

Staying at Kentucky is a stupid decision for any player that can go first round.

Although Archie came close to falling out of the first round being drafted at #29. Do we know for sure which team might have wanted Archie at #30 as the Suns moved up to get him.
 

Errntknght

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IIRC, we had the 30th pick and GSW had the 29th pick and we traded some unknown player that had been out injured all year to them for their pick. The only thing we had to fear was that GS would have drafted him because they didn't really have their sights set on anyone and he was there. If anyone had wanted him much at all they could have outbid us rather easily. I do remember McD was happy to get him - and I suppose GS was happy to not be on the hook for a late first round salary.

I fail to understand why Jeff and McD didn't send him down to the Jam for the season - he needs to be an active part of a team as much as anything - he plays with no enthusiasm whatsoever when he's down there for a couple of games, like he's bestowing the gift of his presence on them. He's talented enough to be a very good player but he's got to get right between the ears or he'll wind up a poor man's Gerald Green - and the real thing isn't all that valuable. Very poor decision making on the part of the Suns I'd say.
 

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IIRC, we had the 30th pick and GSW had the 29th pick and we traded some unknown player that had been out injured all year to them for their pick. The only thing we had to fear was that GS would have drafted him because they didn't really have their sights set on anyone and he was there. If anyone had wanted him much at all they could have outbid us rather easily. I do remember McD was happy to get him - and I suppose GS was happy to not be on the hook for a late first round salary.

I think the player was Alex Oriakhi. I'm glad GS did not go after him.

I fail to understand why Jeff and McD didn't send him down to the Jam for the season - he needs to be an active part of a team as much as anything - he plays with no enthusiasm whatsoever when he's down there for a couple of games, like he's bestowing the gift of his presence on them. He's talented enough to be a very good player but he's got to get right between the ears or he'll wind up a poor man's Gerald Green - and the real thing isn't all that valuable. Very poor decision making on the part of the Suns I'd say.

IMO, the Suns want to keep Archie motivated and keep him feeling like he is part of the activate roster thus they limit his time with the JAM. I'm not saying it is the right way but they know Archie better than anyone. Also they may want to keep him close to Suns staff.
 
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sunsfan88

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Goodwin is honestly in the same situation that guys like Kent Bazemore and Lance Stephenson (without the locker room issues).

Both Bazemore and Stephenson have played well when their minutes got extended with Bazemore still developing but getting valuable minutes on the best team in the league.
 
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Errntknght

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No, it wasn't Oriakhi... he signed overseas somewhere, besides they couldn't have traded him because they hadn't drafted him yet - he was like the 58th pick in that same draft. The guy they traded was actually listed on our roster for a few games that season... I think he was a SG and had been injured most of the year - I don't recall how he came to be on the team. We undoubtedly had a roster spot or two open after the Washington trade where we sent Gortat, Brown and Kendall (at least) in return for Okafor's contract.

I thought of those reasons for being part of whatever rationale they used to keep Goodwin, Ennis and Warren around idle - and they probably use them as practice players but their value is potentially quite large so the first consideration should be what is the best way to develop them - speedily. Goodwin in particular seemed to be disconnected from the team since he'd been here - we've seen too little of the other two to have any idea of their mental state but Archie played enough last year I felt like I had a bit of a read on him. And his body language in Bakersfield was depressing to see. I wasn't surprised at the remarks he made about his future here a while back.
 

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Goodwin is honestly in the same situation that guys like Kent Bazemore (who I was very high on and constantly told GSW fans that he would be good if Mark Jackson ever gave him playing time...

I think same thing will happen to Goodwin once he starts earning playing time.
I am wondering why you refer to Bazemore as ...if the coach ever game him playing time. But to Goodwin as ...once he starts earning playing time.

Doesn't Horny have to give Goodwin some regular playing time to see if he earns more?
 

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IIRC, we had the 30th pick and GSW had the 29th pick and we traded some unknown player that had been out injured all year to them for their pick. The only thing we had to fear was that GS would have drafted him because they didn't really have their sights set on anyone and he was there. If anyone had wanted him much at all they could have outbid us rather easily. I do remember McD was happy to get him - and I suppose GS was happy to not be on the hook for a late first round salary.

Rough day for Malcom Lee. MIN trades him and a 1st round pick to GSW for a 2nd rounder and cash. Then GSW moves down a pick to dump him to PHX.
 

Mainstreet

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No, it wasn't Oriakhi... he signed overseas somewhere, besides they couldn't have traded him because they hadn't drafted him yet - he was like the 58th pick in that same draft. The guy they traded was actually listed on our roster for a few games that season... I think he was a SG and had been injured most of the year - I don't recall how he came to be on the team. We undoubtedly had a roster spot or two open after the Washington trade where we sent Gortat, Brown and Kendall (at least) in return for Okafor's contract.

I thought of those reasons for being part of whatever rationale they used to keep Goodwin, Ennis and Warren around idle - and they probably use them as practice players but their value is potentially quite large so the first consideration should be what is the best way to develop them - speedily. Goodwin in particular seemed to be disconnected from the team since he'd been here - we've seen too little of the other two to have any idea of their mental state but Archie played enough last year I felt like I had a bit of a read on him. And his body language in Bakersfield was depressing to see. I wasn't surprised at the remarks he made about his future here a while back.

You are right. Alex Oriakhi was part of the IT trade with Sacramento.
 

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Other than recklessly charging at the basket Goodwin has yet to display an NBA level skill and he is absolutely not better than the guys in front of him.

All of the whining about Hornacek refusing to play young players requires completely ignoring Alex Len, who, once healthy, got playing time last season, despite being horrible at the time, and this season was handed a huge role right off the bat, a role that would have expanded sooner if not for his foul problems.
 

Errntknght

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Other than recklessly charging at the basket Goodwin has yet to display an NBA level skill and he is absolutely not better than the guys in front of him.

All of the whining about Hornacek refusing to play young players requires completely ignoring Alex Len, who, once healthy, got playing time last season, despite being horrible at the time, and this season was handed a huge role right off the bat, a role that would have expanded sooner if not for his foul problems.

I would play Goodwin ahead of Green but that's just me - young and reckless - I'm like Archie so I identify with him. But I'm only whining about Hornacek not sending me ... I mean Archie, down to the development league for a long stint.

The main reason I'd play Archie here is that going up against the best of the league might teach him some humility, which he probably wouldn't get with the Jam - and badly needs. I think I have seen some defensive skills peeking out and here I'd be sure they'd be encouraged or even demanded, if necessary. Also, as I've mentioned before, he looks like he feels isolated and a well defined role - not large but clearly defined - might help with that. Heck, that's what I wanted for him last year - I would have paired with Ish in practice and games to foster that.

I'm sure you know that at the top level of all sports its the mental component that determines the level of success. Almost everyone that makes it near that level has enough talent but only a few reach the right mental state to get the max out of their particular set of abilities. Its a coaches most important job, IMO, to put their young guys in position to learn about themselves - telling them helps but, as we all know, experience is the better teacher. Just imagine how good Green would be if he just had a solid grasp of what he could and couldn't do. He'd need more than that to reach his full potential - like committing himself to defense as much as offense - but that probably requires a miraculous psychic transformation.

Len, yes I remember him from last year... I whined about Horny not playing him enough and you kept pointing out he not demonstrated any NBA skill so why should Horny play him at all. No skill, slow and bewildered - and I don't think I'm putting words in your mouth. (You were right about bewildered, of course. An almost invariable problem with youngsters that is usually cured by playing.)
 
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Mainstreet

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In thinking about the youngsters in the thread title, I happened to wonder whatever happened to the Suns 2014 2nd round draft pick, Alec Brown. He injured his left shoulder in summer league and he reportedly had surgery in July of 2014. As I understand it, he was supposed to be out a number of months to recover and then he was expected to join the Bakerfield Jam. I cannot find any record of him joining the Jam or playing elsewhere. Does anyone know what happened to him? I thought he had some long term potential.
 

AzStevenCal

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In thinking about the youngsters in the thread title, I happened to wonder whatever happened to the Suns 2014 2nd round draft pick, Alec Brown. He injured his left shoulder in summer league and he reportedly had surgery in July of 2014. As I understand it, he was supposed to be out a number of months to recover and then he was expected to join the Bakerfield Jam. I cannot find any record of him joining the Jam or playing elsewhere. Does anyone know what happened to him? I thought he had some long term potential.

I don't remember where I read this but I'm pretty sure he was planning on joining the Jam sometime in February.

Steve

Edit: From a 12-31-14 article in the Winona Daily News: "said Tuesday night he plans to start his professional basketball career sometime in mid-February"
 
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Mainstreet

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I don't remember where I read this but I'm pretty sure he was planning on joining the Jam sometime in February.

Steve

This would be some news. I think the last time we talked about him was whether the Suns had right of first refusal if a team claimed him from the D-League. I wonder if other teams can claim him after the trade deadline. It not, this could be a reason he is not currently playing and in recovery mode. Better yet, maybe he should wait for summer league to give it another try.
 

Mainstreet

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Edit: From a 12-31-14 article in the Winona Daily News: "said Tuesday night he plans to start his professional basketball career sometime in mid-February"

This makes some since... maybe. I think the NBA trade deadline is February 19th.
 

AzStevenCal

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This would be some news. I think the last time we talked about him was whether the Suns had right of first refusal if a team claimed him from the D-League. I wonder if other teams can claim him after the trade deadline. It not, this could be a reason he is not currently playing and in recovery mode. Better yet, maybe he should wait for summer league to give it another try.

Yeah I really don't know how that works. I would hope that we still have his rights but given that he didn't go overseas as originally intended I'm just not sure what's going on. Odds are he's going to just be a really tall guy that has no place in the league but considering he has such a great outside shot, is a stellar shot blocker and a very good passer, I'd like to see us try and keep/develop him.

Steve
 

Mainstreet

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Yeah I really don't know how that works. I would hope that we still have his rights but given that he didn't go overseas as originally intended I'm just not sure what's going on. Odds are he's going to just be a really tall guy that has no place in the league but considering he has such a great outside shot, is a stellar shot blocker and a very good passer, I'd like to see us try and keep/develop him.

Steve

A better version of Spencer Hawes who does not have issues with toilet paper. :D
 

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I imagine the determining factor for guys in the D-League is whether they have a contract with any professional basketball team. If they don't they should be able to sign on with any club that offers them a 10-day contract or whatever they decide on. I'm not sure he's 100% safe after the trade deadline... it seems to me that now and then a team is allowed to replace an injured player.
 

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I imagine the determining factor for guys in the D-League is whether they have a contract with any professional basketball team. If they don't they should be able to sign on with any club that offers them a 10-day contract or whatever they decide on. I'm not sure he's 100% safe after the trade deadline... it seems to me that now and then a team is allowed to replace an injured player.

It's a bit confusing.
 

AzStevenCal

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I imagine the determining factor for guys in the D-League is whether they have a contract with any professional basketball team. If they don't they should be able to sign on with any club that offers them a 10-day contract or whatever they decide on. I'm not sure he's 100% safe after the trade deadline... it seems to me that now and then a team is allowed to replace an injured player.

If I understand it correctly we still hold Brown's draft rights but I don't know if we automatically lose them once he joins the Jam. I'm hoping that there is a cutoff date where he can play without us losing his draft rights. Once those rights are gone though any team in the league could call him up.

Steve
 
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