Devin Booker future extension

[Mainstreet]

I think it should also be considered Booker is playing a lot of PG which ups his value.

 

[JS22]

Pay him the max the second you can. Don't even debate it. If Sarver tries to get cute I'll stop being a Suns fan. I've never completely hated Sarver, but messing around with the Booker extension would tell me that he's learned nothing and is, in fact, a terrible owner. And that the Suns will go absolutely nowhere with him running the show.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Pay him the max the second you can. Don't even debate it. If Sarver tries to get cute I'll stop being a Suns fan. I've never completely hated Sarver, but messing around with the Booker extension would tell me that he's learned nothing and is, in fact, a terrible owner. And that the Suns will go absolutely nowhere with him running the show.

Yeah. This is the biggest no brainer in the history of the franchise.

 

[3rdside]

Pay him the max the second you can. Don't even debate it. If Sarver tries to get cute I'll stop being a Suns fan. I've never completely hated Sarver, but messing around with the Booker extension would tell me that he's learned nothing and is, in fact, a terrible owner. And that the Suns will go absolutely nowhere with him running the show.

Any idea what that is?


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[3rdside]

Wiggins got 5yrs and $150m with a PER of 16.5.

Sucks to be Minnesota as he’s tailed down to 13.5 PER this season...


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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Wiggins got 5yrs and $150m with a PER of 16.5.

Sucks to be Minnesota as he’s tailed down to 13.5 PER this season...


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No matter the media thinksiys difficult to believe many wouldn’t place Booker above Wiggins at this point.

 

[Phrazbit]

No matter the media thinksiys difficult to believe many wouldn’t place Booker above Wiggins at this point.

I think even the media doesn't discuss this. Every time I see a "best young players" listing it's Embiid, Booker, Greek Freak that are always shown and then a mix of some others. Wiggins and Parker (2 dudes that we're viewed as no doubt stars) are absent.

 

[hsandhu]

Pay him the max the second you can. Don't even debate it. If Sarver tries to get cute I'll stop being a Suns fan. I've never completely hated Sarver, but messing around with the Booker extension would tell me that he's learned nothing and is, in fact, a terrible owner. And that the Suns will go absolutely nowhere with him running the show.

Great point, the minny owner went back and forth with wiggins all summer, before giving him the max.

But booker is in a category above wiggins. Most of us already know sarver is a jackass, but if he doesn't pay booker the max at 12:01 July 1, the franchise is done.

Because even if he eventually gives him a max contract, it means same old sarver.

And it means if our other young talent becomes great, and Jackson or top pick this year also become max candidates in several years.... Same old sarver will do the same stuff he did with jo e johnson, and not keep the core of a great team together.

No money excuses for jackass this time, franchise has increased exponentially in value since he bought it. He could easily sell for at least a billion, probably more.

he's not even paying the salary cap these past years, so making money and also a tax receiver from other teams...

 

[Errntknght]

No money excuses for jackass this time, franchise has increased exponentially in value since he bought it. He could easily sell for at least a billion, probably .

In a list of current team values, from Forbes, Suns are 17th at 1.28 billion - lowest value team was at 1.0 billion.

 

[3rdside]

From what I can tell, a Max contract offer for a rookie coming off his 4 year deal (2 years guaranteed plus 2 years club options exercised and no super max qualifiers - all-nba teams, mvp or dpoy awards) will be for 25% of the cap as they have < 6 years experience. 7 - 10 years with one club entitles you to 30% of cap and > 10 years 35%.

Projected salary cap in 2019 is $108m, so Booker will be in line for $27m with 8% raises over 5 years (Bird rights allowing the latter two; it's 5% and 4 years if these don't exist) which equates to $158m over 5 years.

And it looks like he'll sign that this off season, only 3 years into his 4 year deal, to prevent him from becoming a restricted free agent after 4 years.

Which explains (to the previously ignorant like me) why McD was able to sign guys like warren to great deals; he tempts them with a multi year, 8 figure deal one year in advance of free agency.

 

[3rdside]

This is a good article about max contracts and why clubs are more wary of dishing them out - and explains why we hear names like Aaron Gordon being talked about as being available, even though they probably won't be.

Management are ringing around to see what the actual value of their player is before handing out a max - fyi Gordon's PER is very similar to Booker's.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2/5/16972634/trouble-nba-max-contracts

 

[3rdside]

Question is is Booker worth it?

Considering the top 50 salaries (max and near max) in the nba this year + Embiid + Wiggins who are maxxed from next year, ranked by PER (if anyone wants the list I can provide it..):

If we maxxed Booker today, his PER of 18.6 puts him 33rd on the list i.e. there are 32 players 'better' than him and 19 players 'worse' than him earning max or near max, meaning he's a 'below average' max player.

But:

- He hasn't played with a consistent, nor good, PG all this season; in the small sample size of 6 games he's played with Payton, he's shooting 0.438% FG vs 0.423% before he arrived. That's a decent difference if it continues.

And assuming from next season he has better players around him he can reduce the number of low quality shots he currently takes (required to compensate for the relative lack of talent around him), increasing further his FG%, and at the same his assists will also go up because when he does pass rather than shoot a low quality shot, his better teammates will more likely score.

That's three fairly straight forward ways his PER should rise next season.


- He seems to have 'it'; other players talk about him in great terms.


- He's still really young - what he's doing for his age is phenomenal and I don't think anyone here believes he won't improve.


So yeah, he almost certainly is.

 

[JCSunsfan]

PER should only be one factor, and I am not even sure if it should be one of the top factors.

 

[3rdside]

PER should only be one factor, and I am not even sure if it should be one of the top factors.

There’s no better metric upon which to make one player vs many player comparisons.




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[3rdside]

But yes, in booker’s case we’re maxing him on potential not output.


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[CardsSunsDbacks]

But yes, in booker’s case we’re maxing him on potential not output.


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This is false he will be getting max based on both of those things. I mean he is already putting up 25/5/5 in his third year. If that doesn’t count as good output I don’t know what does.

 

[Covert Rain]

PER should only be one factor, and I am not even sure if it should be one of the top factors.

This. PER by itself can be very deceptive. How often does said player play out of position? Play with lineups that force him to take lower quality shots? Does said player have a green light to shoot whenever he wants or in a system that requires him to run sets most of the time?

So many factors to consider outside of PER. Sure it’s definitely an indicator but one of many.

 

[Mainstreet]

Bottom line the Suns cannot afford not to max out Booker. He is the cornerstone of the Suns franchise and he is worth every dollar. Also, the Suns are not in position to wait for the ideal player.

 

[3rdside]

This is false he will be getting max based on both of those things. I mean he is already putting up 25/5/5 in his third year. If that doesn’t count as good output I don’t know what does.

He deserves the max, I’ve said that, but not without considering his glaring weakness of poor shooting %.

i’d guess and say there’s probably a bunch of guys who could score as much if they played for a bad team such as the Suns and were given license to shoot as much as he does, but Booker’s doing it as a kid so it screams potential and that’s what we’re paying for.

But if his shooting % doesn’t get better then we’ll be paying a lot of money a flawed player, one that’s possibly not deserving of the max, which is what I was trying to point out.




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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How this thread is 5 pages long is beyond me. It should be two posts. The first asking the question. The second just saying “yes” with 500 likes.

 

[3rdside]

This. PER by itself can be very deceptive. How often does said player play out of position? Play with lineups that force him to take lower quality shots? Does said player have a green light to shoot whenever he wants or in a system that requires him to run sets most of the time?

So many factors to consider outside of PER. Sure it’s definitely an indicator but one of many.

Sure but it’s the best general single, levelled (adjusted for minutes and pace) indicator of a player’s output. Not perfect but definitely relevant.

And the classic example of its relevance is Booker - hang around this board long enough and you’d think he’s one step away from the MVP trophy at times until you look at his PER and you scratch your head wondering why it’s so low...he can’t shoot very well is why.


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[3rdside]

But he should improve with better PG and better teammates, as mentioned


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[Chaplin]

He deserves the max, I’ve said that, but not without considering his glaring weakness of poor shooting %.

i’d guess and say there’s probably a bunch of guys who could score as much if they played for a bad team such as the Suns and were given license to shoot as much as he does, but Booker’s doing it as a kid so it screams potential and that’s what we’re paying for.

But if his shooting % doesn’t get better then we’ll be paying a lot of money a flawed player, one that’s possibly not deserving of the max, which is what I was trying to point out.




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One thing I will say is that you seem out of touch with today’s max-value players.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How this thread is 5 pages long is beyond me. It should be two posts. The first asking the question. The second just saying “yes” with 500 likes.

ha... Cheeseborg almost posted the exact same thing.

 

[3rdside]

One thing I will say is that you seem out of touch with today’s max-value players.

Read the article I posted a page back by The Ringer ... GM’s are becoming wary about dishing them out and we shouldn’t be any different.


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