Chaplin
Better off silent
Do you have examples of Suns fans not recognizing Steve? Outside of him playing for the Lakers at the end of his career, where are fans not giving him his due?
Devin Booker is the greatest player EVER in Suns history
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With Steve Nash the Suns had their cake and ate it too.
He was traded to the Mavericks in exchange for among other things, a draft pick that turned out to be Shawn Marion.
He was traded to the Mavericks in exchange for among other things, a draft pick that turned out to be Shawn Marion.
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BirdGangThing
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I love Nash - loved that squad - some of the best basketball in Phx history - Nash is the best PG in Suns history imo
But Nash was tradable early in his career - Booker was not - and I think that says a lot
But Nash was tradable early in his career - Booker was not - and I think that says a lot
Whole package to me would be if you combine all Book, Barkley, and Nash together. The leadership skills.. individual accomplishments.. carrying a team..
People normally look at mvps.. rings.. and such.. then automatically dub that person as the greatest. Book doesn’t have all that compared to Nash but he did more outside of that which is why I put him ahead. If we would have best the Bucks I think Book would be ahead by miles.
If there were no names or face to stats and accomplishments I would think Nash comes out ahead.
Chaplin
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Ok fair enough. You say "leadership skills, individual accomplishments, carrying a team". How does Book not fit any of those descriptions?
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BirdGangThing
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Book has already accomplished Nash's highest accomplishment in Phx - taking his team to the Finals - and Booker did it with less
CardsSunsDbacks
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When was Nash in the finals?
Chaplin
Better off silent
Book has actually surpassed Nash in that respect. If not for suspensions and Joe Johnson breaking his face, the conversation would be different.
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BirdGangThing
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Oh damn you're right - we only made the Western Finals with Nash
Chaplin
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Barkley was only here a couple years and was already an established superstar. Those were great years, especially the Finals year, but after flaming out and basically quitting after such a short time moves Book ahead of him. And based on that, Book is the greatest Sun of all time at this point. Only thing he's missing that those other guys had was an MVP. He's either equalled or bested all the other accomplishments.
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I still don’t think that super young team beats the best Spurs team of all time, IMO when JJ broke his face. Probably a better series but they still beat us pretty easily, even thought we had HCA.
The suspension year is a different story. But what I think still plays into Book’s favor there over Nash is Nash came out during a one game suspension and was atrocious… in a game that came down to the wire. Meanwhile, in the WCF, we were down CP3 because of Covid and Book stepped UP in that moment with one of his greatest playoff games ever with like 37/10/10 and we won both games with Paul out in the WCF to get to the Finals.
So, all told, it’s Book as best Sun ever at this point.
Chaplin
Better off silent
1. Book
2. Nash
3. Barkley
#4 will probably go back in time to Connie Hawkins or Alvin Adams or even Walter Davis.
2. Nash
3. Barkley
#4 will probably go back in time to Connie Hawkins or Alvin Adams or even Walter Davis.
CardNots
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Larry Nance was pretty good for that #4 spot. Didn’t we have a guard who helped the Celtics, Dennis Johnson I think. I also think Kevin Johnson (trade) had a nice run. Pretty sure we drafted Kerr as well.
GatorAZ
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Yeah imagine those Nash teams facing the Spurs and Mavs missing Duncan or Dirk.
Phrazbit
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Westphal is the easy #4.
I’m still putting Nash over Booker. It’s close but Nash was such on offensive engine that he could take just about any roster to 50 wins and a playoff run at his peak here. The 2006 Suns run was bonkers, take Nash off that team and they probably win 20 games.
Dr. Jones
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I'm going with this guy.....
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It's so subjective but my top 20 list goes like this: Booker, Nash, Barkley, KJ, Marion, Amare, Westphal, Walter Davis, Alvan Adams, Jason Kidd, Connie Hawkins, Charlie Scott, Dan Majerle, Tom Chambers, Dick Van Arsdale, Larry Nance, Jeff Hornacek, Dennis Johnson, Gar Heard and Maurice Lucas.
Look at Luka and the guys around him.. Look at Book early on and the people around him.. Everyone here knows I am not a Luka fan but he can carry a team filled with crap to the playoffs. Yea I know he doesn't play defense and cries to the refs a lot but he the guy can do that which Book couldn’t until he had stronger pieces around him.
Book for the most part made the All-star team due other players being injured. When Nash made the all star team people knew he made the team. When Book got in people (media) weren't set. He isn't in MVP conversations like Nash was but still has time.
Book from the recorded games I seen is a leader by example only. He doesn’t lead like MJ or Kobe. He doesn’t seem to demand 100% from his teammates. Which is fine but you need that guy to get on everyone when they start to slack (Ayton for example). He just seems to go out there to do his thing and expects everyone to do the same but won’t get on them if they don’t.
I like Book and think he is the greatest player to wear a Suns uniform but just my opinion I feel he lacks in other areas. I get the Kobe and MJs don’t come around often but I don’t see the fire in him when they are down. When we had the Bucks on the ropes you saw Giannis getting on his teammates. If Book doesn’t have that then its fine. Would be nice if he did.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Nash didn't get to the finals, Book has. What is your reasoning to discount that fact? Just curious.
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BirdGangThing
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I agree with some of this - some of it not so much - Book is a killer like MJ and Kobe and KD - you don't drop 71 without that gene - and when he or CP3 got on the only teammate that ever really needed getting on - it backfired - but it was a different story in the Olympics where Book not only led but also motivated his teammates to dig deep - infact I think Olympic Book is why we have KD - because game recognize game
I get where you’re coming from which is what made it hard for me. Nash didn't get to the finals but I feel that shouldn’t be a ding against him. The only knock I have on Nash is he was coming into his own with Dallas before coming back but outside of that.. man you had a guy who I felt would give you everything.
The guy had grit.. He played with one eye and bloody..
Yea. I get he is a killer like MJ and Kobe but he doesn’t command the team like they did. Those guys were were getting on their teammates but their teammates still followed and wanted to play with them. Book bringing KD and Beal here was one of the reason why I put him over Nash. The areas I feel he lacks he makes up else where.
Just to be clear when I say Book wasn’t in MVP talks or selected to All-star team cause someone was hurt doesn’t reflect how I feel. I think he should be an all star and in the conversation for MVP. This was just how the media and fans outside of Phoenix sees it.
I didn’t see him in the olympics. I will check it out.
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Phrazbit
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I'm not discounting that, I think 2 MVPs and all those winning seasons and deep runs out weigh it.
Booker has plenty of time to move ahead of Nash, he is still a few years younger than Nash was when he rejoined.
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I put KJ over Nash. He was the engine that made the Suns rise from the ashes of the drug scandal, took the team to back to back WCF, helped us get to a 3rd WCF and the brink of a title. And when needed, was dragged out of retirement to again help the team to a playoff first round W and then turned into a massive scorer helping that super small Suns team rebound from an 0-13 start to within an OT of beating a 2 seed in the playoffs.
That was 10 years as the leader, or second banana or old guy riding to the rescue for the franchise that included 3 WCF and a Final appearance.
And he never forced his way to the freaking Lakers.
That was 10 years as the leader, or second banana or old guy riding to the rescue for the franchise that included 3 WCF and a Final appearance.
And he never forced his way to the freaking Lakers.
CardNots
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I agree it should be determined at a later date. We are trying to compare book to finished careers.
I also see book’s career mirrors closely to MJ except book entered at a younger age. MJ had better coaching.
This will be a defining year for Book’s greatness or not. I doubt he will ever see a supporting cast as good as he has now.
