Devin Booker is the greatest player EVER in Suns history

[Cheesebeef]

Chris Paul? Clutch shooting has gone up everywhere he went career wise no?

Seems like kind of an obvious factor, but what do I know?

 

[Ronin]

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[1tinsoldier]

Prior to trading for Durant the suns had spent 2 years as the best clutch team in the league.

Another post that spits into the face of reality.

amidst a sea of reality, you picked out one point that disregards something i've posted a dozen times on this forum.

indeed, the Suns had the best clutch shooting in the NBA for the 2 years when CP3 lead the team -- one of the best floor generals and smartest players in history. And the fact that we went from the best to the worst for the past 2 years with Booker trying to lead, is EXACTLY MY POINT!

We did, however, start the season with Durant leading us to a 10 and 2 start. And I suspect because Durant is now considered "the man" on the Suns team is part of the reason Booker's been in a funk (besides the historic Suns' low season records and epic playoff meltdowns he lead us to).

i suspect, die-hard Booker fans see Durant and saw CP3 as outsiders stealing some spotlight from their home-grown star (from Michigan), and their defensive sensitivity to sound critical analysis of Book's weakness, and our future with that weakness, makes some here very nervous.

 

[1tinsoldier]

speaking of the obvious that shouldn't need to be pointed out...

Russ Westbrook, Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony, Barkley, and many others who never won a championship, did break records, especially scoring records if they spent a long time on one team.

and, help me out...
is Booker's local scoring record supposed to refute the logic of my points?

or, are the mods here just doing their PR thing for the Suns' marketing of Booker too?

if so, don't worry. This is a discussion forum. I've been a forum administrator for a dozen years. I needn't remind you that reasonable debate is healthy for business and singing to the choir really isn't. If i were you i'd focus on cutting down on the bullying tactics that go on here. Which is a huge turnoff to readers -- not "that guy" that has something of substance to say, but is a bit blunt.

i'm not nearly as blunt and outspoken as Stephen A Smith, but he does have the biggest audience and most successful broadcast in the biz. And i'd rather listen to him rant even though i often disagree with him, than listen to Suns radio kiss-ups keep pushing the company line. They're generally critical of any Suns player -- but Booker. Because he's the "money" player -- well, literally, but not figuratively.

and literally, for the Suns and this forum, ad revenue will only peak again when Phoenix has got a winner. Wise up.

 

[Hoop Head]

speaking of the obvious that shouldn't need to be pointed out...

Russ Westbrook, Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony, Barkley, and many others who never won a championship, did break records, especially scoring records if they spent a long time on one team.

and, help me out...
is Booker's local scoring record supposed to refute the logic of my points?

or, are the mods here just doing their PR thing for the Suns' marketing of Booker too?

if so, don't worry. This is a discussion forum. I've been a forum administrator for a dozen years. I needn't remind you that reasonable debate is healthy for business and singing to the choir really isn't. If i were you i'd focus on cutting down on the bullying tactics that go on here. Which is a huge turnoff to readers -- not "that guy" that has something of substance to say, but is a bit blunt.

i'm not nearly as blunt and outspoken as Stephen A Smith, but he does have the biggest audience and most successful broadcast in the biz. And i'd rather listen to him rant even though i often disagree with him, than listen to Suns radio kiss-ups keep pushing the company line. They're generally critical of any Suns player -- but Booker. Because he's the "money" player -- well, literally, but not figuratively.

and literally, for the Suns and this forum, ad revenue will only peak again when Phoenix has got a winner. Wise up.

Serious question, why do you care so much about your view of Booker not being the greatest Sun ever? You haven't presented a logical argument for another player holding that spot. There definitely isn't a consensus amongst Suns fan now as to who holds that title. I'd imagine 90% of Suns fans would have said Nash or Barkley a few years ago and now Booker has entered that discussion also. It's always a discussion, mind you.

I think most Suns fans would agree to disagree that there isn't a single Sun who stands head and shoulders above everyone else like Jordan for the Bulls, for example or even Dirk for the Mavericks. I don't believe Mavs fans feel threatened by Luka's ascension and him surpassing Dirk would be great for the franchise, considering what Dirk accomplished in Dallas. So to say Booker isn't in the conversation for greatest Suns ignores his history here, which is reality. Why not just celebrate we have a great player in his prime who very well could cement that status still? I'm not saying he will or won't but I don't see how its a negative he's in that conversation for most fans. If he's not for you, and it's clear he's not in your view, why enter a discussion with fans who believe he is?

This is literally a discussion board. You genuinely come across as threatened Book's up there now and being discussed It's fine to feel he isn't, but now you're saying mods here are doing Suns PR for allowing the discussion.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Serious question, why do you care so much about your view of Booker not being the greatest Sun ever? You haven't presented a logical argument for another player holding that spot. There definitely isn't a consensus amongst Suns fan now as to who holds that title. I'd imagine 90% of Suns fans would have said Nash or Barkley a few years ago and now Booker has entered that discussion also. It's always a discussion, mind you.

I think most Suns fans would agree to disagree that there isn't a single Sun who stands head and shoulders above everyone else like Jordan for the Bulls, for example or even Dirk for the Mavericks. I don't believe Mavs fans feel threatened by Luka's ascension and him surpassing Dirk would be great for the franchise, considering what Dirk accomplished in Dallas. So to say Booker isn't in the conversation for greatest Suns ignores his history here, which is reality. Why not just celebrate we have a great player in his prime who very well could cement that status still? I'm not saying he will or won't but I don't see how its a negative he's in that conversation for most fans. If he's not for you, and it's clear he's not in your view, why enter a discussion with fans who believe he is?

This is literally a discussion board. You genuinely come across as threatened Book's up there now and being discussed It's fine to feel he isn't, but now you're saying mods here are doing Suns PR for allowing the discussion.

Plus he lumps us all into the fanboy class if we don't support his anti-Booker position. I consider Devin to be the greatest Suns player ever although I see good arguments for him coming in behind Nash or Barkley. But regardless, whether he's our best ever or 3rd best or wherever you put him, I also lead the "trade Devin now" caucus. I'm hardly a fanboy and after reading those posts I don't even bother to read anything he says anymore.

 

[1tinsoldier]

again, you're way off track, Hoop. But thanks for asking a serious question for a change, instead of just being snide and antagonistic.

i'm posting in this thread because YOU and Mainstream (i believe), scolded me for posting my criticism in a game thread. I was sarcastically told, "i didn't know how forums work) and I should my critique of Booker in THIS FORUM.

it is, indeed, a reasonable debate whether "Booker is the greatest Sun." We have few accolades assigned to other players except Nash and Barkley with MVP's, which is significant. But short of a championship, there's nothing else to hang a Suns player's hat on.

i have absolutely no animosity towards any achievement Booker may acquire, even though this personal accolade parallels a decade of the Suns worst basketball in team history. Still, I have no gripe with fans who believe he is the best Sun ever. For 7 years here, my focus is, and always has been on whether a player or coach is good for the team. Like Devin, i firmly believed Igor and Monty were good guys who needed to go. I caught hell from you and others for those opinions too.

As per the thread question, in keeping with my team philosophy, and favorite all-time players being the smartest, most selfless, players in history -- Magic, Nash, and CP3, my vote would be for Nash with 2 MVP's and CP3 who are both credited with making the Suns players around them better, and for coaching on the floor at the same time.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Plus he lumps us all into the fanboy class if we don't support his anti-Booker position. I consider Devin to be the greatest Suns player ever although I see good arguments for him coming in behind Nash or Barkley. But regardless, whether he's our best ever or 3rd best or wherever you put him, I also lead the "trade Devin now" caucus. I'm hardly a fanboy and after reading those posts I don't even bother to read anything he says anymore.

nice move, AZ. With the mods tuning in, substitute the usual, "he's just a Booker-hater" for the more euphemistic "if we don't support his anti-Booker position." I'd love to have an intelligent discussion on the merits of my arguments, but no one debates the merits. It's just various nit pics, slights or downright antagonistic bullying (LIKE THIS) -- for years. The same exact bullying i got when i said Igor and Monty needed to be moved.

you announcing to everyone that, "I don't even bother to read anything he says anymore" is just another bullying tool (and, obviously, a lie). Just "block me" instead of publicly insulting me again (and when i defend myself, complain.)

 

[Mainstreet]

again, you're way off track. But thanks for asking a serious question for a change, instead of just being snide and antagonistic.

i'm posting in this thread because YOU and Mainstream (i believe), scolded me for posting my criticism in a game thread. I was sarcastically told, "i didn't know how forums work) and I should my critique of Booker in THIS FORUM.

it is, indeed, a reasonable debate whether "Booker is the greatest Sun." We have few accolades assigned to other players except Nash and Barkley with MVP's, which is significant. But short of a championship, there's nothing else to hang a Suns player's hat on.

i have absolutely no animosity towards any achievement Booker may acquire, even though this personal accolade parallels a decade of the Suns worst basketball in team history. Still, I have no gripe with fans who believe he is the best Sun ever. For 7 years here, my focus is, and always has been on whether a player or coach is good for the team. Like Devin, i firmly believed Igor and Monty were good guys who needed to go. I caught hell from you and others for those opinions too.

As per the thread question, in keeping with my team philosophy, and favorite all-time players being the smartest, most selfless, players in history -- Magic, Nash, and CP3, my vote would be for Nash with 2 MVP's and CP3 who are both credited with making the Suns players around them better, and for coaching on the floor at the same time.

May I suggest you start your own thread that more clearly represents your views.

This is not a knock Devin Booker thread, as evidenced by the topic.

 

[1tinsoldier]

May I suggest you start your own thread that more clearly represents your views.

This is not a knock Devin Booker thread, as evidenced by the topic.

so. You told me to critique Booker here. Now you're telling me to start my own thread? wow. you must have a lot of pull around here. And to rewrite the concept of differing opinions on a thread topic is revolutionary. Now, only those who agree with the point of a topic belong in the topic.

look, Mainstreet. I haven't got a problem with your posts. You're generally reasonable and knowledgeable.

but "may i suggest" YOU just post in threads you agree with and stop telling me what to do.

 

[Mainstreet]

so. You told me to critique Booker here. Now you're telling me to start my own thread? wow. you must have a lot of pull around here. And to rewrite the concept of differing opinions on a thread topic is revolutionary. Now, only those who agree with the point of a topic belong in the topic.

look, Mainstreet. I haven't got a problem with your posts. You're generally reasonable and knowledgeable.

but "may i suggest" YOU just post in threads you agree with and stop telling me what to do.

I'm suggesting if you want to constantly detract from Devin Booker, a different thread might be in order than better identifies with your views.

 

[AzStevenCal]

nice move, AZ. With the mods tuning in, substitute the usual, "he's just a Booker-hater" for the more euphemistic "if we don't support his anti-Booker position." I'd love to have an intelligent discussion on the merits of my arguments, but no one debates the merits. It's just various nit pics, slights or downright antagonistic bullying (LIKE THIS) -- for years. The same exact bullying i got when i said Igor and Monty needed to be moved.

you announcing to everyone that, "I don't even bother to read anything he says anymore" is just another bullying tool. Just "block me" instead of publicly insulting me again (and when i defend myself, complain.)

And yet, nothing I said was untrue. You did snap back and label us fanboys for not buying into your simplistic rants about Devin. I don't competely disagree with everything you said but you conveniently ignore or sidestep facts that don't fit and you often reach sweeping conclusions using cherry picked data.

I've been disappointed by Booker's play for a couple years now. Not every night, but a bit too often for someone who is supposed to be elite. That doesn't mean he's been bad though.

He is a great shooting guard when he's playing next to a quality point guard. He is a decent point guard when he's got 4 other quality players on the court with him but if there's no defense down low, his inability to stay in front of PGs destroys our defense. He's a clutch player when given the chance but not if he has to do it by himself. And like Kobe always was, he's far too willing to try and do it by himself. But this idea that he's not a smart player or that he's not a team player or that he is nothing more than empty stats is absurd IMO.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

May I suggest you start your own thread that more clearly represents your views.

This is not a knock Devin Booker thread, as evidenced by the topic.

Actually this is a fair point as evidenced by the Murray thing. 1tin can start his own debate thread rather than effectively troll this one.

Official moderator position

 

[BirdGangThing]

Actually this is a fair point as evidenced by the Murray thing. 1tin can start his own debate thread rather than effectively troll this one.

Official moderator position

how much are the suns paying you chris? or is it book? ...nike?

 

[Hoop Head]

how much are the suns paying you chris? or is it book? ...nike?

Finally sniffed out Sarver's mole. Chris stuck around to throw people off after Bob the Banker sold the team.

IYKYK

Before the mods were part of the PR team, Sarver had a mole here according to the tin man.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

how much are the suns paying you chris? or is it book? ...nike?

 

[1tinsoldier]

Actually this is a fair point as evidenced by the Murray thing. 1tin can start his own debate thread rather than effectively troll this one.

Official moderator position

OK, but i did start a thread entitled ARE THE SUNS CURSED: BOOK IT. And the same posters you say are "making a fair point" have absolutely "trolled" that thread with bully posts instead of debating the points I made. In fact, I've been trolled by Hoop and AZ for 7 years after asking them just to "block" me.

do you really want to set the precedent that the opinion of the thread poster should not be challenged? Because it's totally on-topic to question whether his faults would qualify him as "the best" or not.

So we're all clear on the new forum rule, if I start a thread called AYTON IS THE BEST SUNS CENTER EVER are those who vehemently disagree allowed to make their points, or not.

And, what is the message you are sending to other posters if you let a handful of posters push around a 30 year Suns fan who simply puts the team's success ahead of any one player or coach? I'm not even in the minority any more. The poll here indicated most agree that a trade for Booker should be explored?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

OK, but i did start a thread entitled ARE THE SUNS CURSED: BOOK IT. And the same posters you say are "making a fair point" have absolutely "trolled" that thread with bully posts instead of debating the points I made. In fact, I've been trolled by Hoop and AZ for 7 years after asking them just to "block" me.

do you really want to set the precedent that the opinion of the thread poster should not be challenged? Because it's totally on-topic to question whether his faults would qualify him as "the best" or not.

So we're all clear on the new forum rule, if I start a thread called AYTON IS THE BEST SUNS CENTER EVER are those who vehemently disagree allowed to make their points, or not.

And, what is the message you are sending to other posters if you let a handful of posters push around a 30 year Suns fan who simply puts the team's success ahead of any one player or coach? I'm not even in the minority any more. The poll here indicated most agree that a trade for Booker should be explored?

You can have your discussion about Booker in a non appreciation thread, as is standard everywhere on the board.

Call it the Devin Booker debate thread.

That way people that want to debate about Devin know where to go

You could also call it the Devin Booker sucks thread. I don't care as long as it isn't profane

 

[AzStevenCal]

OK, but i did start a thread entitled ARE THE SUNS CURSED: BOOK IT. And the same posters you say are "making a fair point" have absolutely "trolled" that thread with bully posts instead of debating the points I made. In fact, I've been trolled by Hoop and AZ for 7 years after asking them just to "block" me.

do you really want to set the precedent that the opinion of the thread poster should not be challenged? Because it's totally on-topic to question whether his faults would qualify him as "the best" or not.

So we're all clear on the new forum rule, if I start a thread called AYTON IS THE BEST SUNS CENTER EVER are those who vehemently disagree allowed to make their points, or not.

And, what is the message you are sending to other posters if you let a handful of posters push around a 30 year Suns fan who simply puts the team's success ahead of any one player or coach? I'm not even in the minority any more. The poll here indicated most agree that a trade for Booker should be explored?

Really? I honestly thought I'd rarely responded to you.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Really? I honestly thought I'd rarely responded to you.

not lately. Thank you.

 

[AzStevenCal]

not lately. Thank you.

I don't think I ever trolled you or bullied you either, neither are my style but obviously you see it differently.

 

[1tinsoldier]

You can have your discussion about Booker in a non appreciation thread, as is standard everywhere on the board.

Call it the Devin Booker debate thread.

That way people that want to debate about Devin know where to go

You could also call it the Devin Booker sucks thread. I don't care as long as it isn't profane

ok. I was just following Hoop and Mainstreet who said I should know that this was the thread to post my take on Booker.

 

[Hoop Head]

Really? I honestly thought I'd rarely responded to you.

Questioning his viewpoint and/or disagreeing = bullying

He also tells others to block him rather than him blocking anyone else. That tells me a lot he wants a soapbox and obedient audience.