Diamondbacks get Livan Hernandez in trade

[hafey]

I mean I love porspects too, but lets be honest. While decent pitchers neither mock nor chico are sure-fire prospects. No need ot hoard medicore pitching prospects. Hernandez has a rep as pitching big in big games. I think he will make an impact.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I trust Byrnes

I'm with you. There's better odds Livan regains his health and with it his ability than there is a 5'11 180 pound lefty with minimal velocity turning into a frontline starter.

 

[devilfan02]

^ Dido. Hernandez WILL help us in our quest to win the NL West this year. Sure, we're not built to go deep this year but we're in the hunt and you never know what can happen once you get to the post season. It's not like Byrnes sold the farm for him and we're paying him 5 mill next year (if the Nats threw in 2 mill, which is what I heard). That sounds like a good deal to me. We go out this offseason and get a ace and another decent pitcher and the next thing you know we could be world series contenders. I like this deal and I think Livan has a lot more in the tank

 

[sly fly]

Good deal.

Don't some of you understand that this team has a shot at winning the division? Or, does that not mean anything to you?

 

[Nasser22]

I'm fine with this as long as it's not Juan Cruz that loses his starting job. This doesen't really set us back at all really. It can only help us or keep us where we're at. I hope he isn't another Lopez, Dessens or Ortiz. He has been pitching well lately.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

I am a touch skeptical, but this will probably end up being a good deal for the Diamondbacks. Livan was an all star in 2004 and 2005, and it seems that his performance this year was hampered by a knee injury which has since improved. It appears that there arent the same question marks surrounding Livan's age as there are his half-brother Orlando, so if he is indeed 31 (or close to it) then he should still have a couple strong years left in him.

There is a bit of risk as $7M (or $5M if you want to look at it that way) is a lot of money to give if he doesnt live up to the player he has shown he is capable of being, but he has the ability to eat a ton of innings and take a lot of pressure off of our other pitchers which is exactly something this team needs right now. Giving up two pitching prospects stings a bit since our quantity is limited, but neither Chico nor Mock are expected to be anything more than back of the rotation starters.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The last thing I'm worried about is the money. One year at $5 million is nothing for a string pitcher these days especially one with the upside of Livan.

 

[TucsonDevil]

If Livan can give us what he has given out this last month - this is a good deal for the D-Backs. Let's keep this in mind - when Miggy was pitching well a couple of weeks ago - we were winning most series. Two game winning streaks gets everyone excited. We haven't had that in awhile... you can trace it back to Miggy pitching poorly. We need a solid starter to take give us 7 innings.

One more thing - can we stage a public whipping of Juan Cruz now that he lost his spot in the rotation - or do we have to continue to pretend he is a gamer and gives it his all?

 

[green machine]

Good deal.

Don't some of you understand that this team has a shot at winning the division? Or, does that not mean anything to you?

Oh tell me about it! I would rather play every veteran we can so we can get swept in the first round.

No way do I want to see our prospects out there playing every day and getting experience so that this team is better in the future.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Oh tell me about it! I would rather play every veteran we can so we can get swept in the first round.

No way do I want to see our prospects out there playing every day and getting experience so that this team is better in the future.

I disagree - A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. Strilke while the iron is hot. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. You are only as good as your last start... oh, wait, that last one didn't quite work.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Sigh. I thought the 'bend over, we have a slighly used Latino starter for you' days were behind us forever. Well, I guess in a manner of speaking, they are behind us.

Man you guys are crazy. Its this kind of talk that make us MB'ers look like a bunch of goof ball fanboys.

This trade is an excellent risk by the Diamondbacks. What is Hernandez known for?

1) Eating innings
2) Groundballs
3) Pitching well in the second half
4) Pitching well in big games

well it just so happens that is exactly what we needed. Not to mention his last five starts have all been quality starts (because you guessed it - hes a second half pitcher) Alot of this is psychological because you want to know that your front office is behind you and i expect the D-backs to recieve a shot in the arm after making this trade.

As they just said on the White Sox/ Angels telecast why not take a chance. Face it: All of our pitching prospects - even our best pitching prospects - our marginal players. This is not exactly Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. We have a chance at the division and now we can take a dead spot out of our rotation because if anything, Hernandez is a legitimate big league pitcher. I'm not saying this is def. going to work out but this is exactly the type of risk all great GM's take (including the great Billy Beane). I think Byrnes is counting on our draft picks the last two years and next years free agent class to round out our rotation. Plus we have another guy we can insert into the 4-5 spot next year provided we do go out and get two more starting pitchers. For 5 million thats pretty damn smart

I like this move and like RyanWB said i trust Byrnes. I some point you guys have to quit counting on all these prospects to develop and get these young players already in the bigs meaningful experience in September. Chico and Mock may turn out to be Capuano and Penny but I doubt it. I think theres a much better chance Hernandez provides an adrenaline boost and much needed inning eating. And if we do make the playoffs, he could be an especially big asset. Theres a reason everyone is shocked we got him. This is a innings eater other teams wanted. Rizzo's familiarity with our prospects is essentially what got this deal done as i guarantee other teams were offering currently higher rated prospects.

Works or not - I like Byrnes line of thinking.....

 

[Nasser22]

If Livan can give us what he has given out this last month - this is a good deal for the D-Backs. Let's keep this in mind - when Miggy was pitching well a couple of weeks ago - we were winning most series. Two game winning streaks gets everyone excited. We haven't had that in awhile... you can trace it back to Miggy pitching poorly. We need a solid starter to take give us 7 innings.

One more thing - can we stage a public whipping of Juan Cruz now that he lost his spot in the rotation - or do we have to continue to pretend he is a gamer and gives it his all?

He has the 2nd best ERA out of all our starters and either the best or 2nd best at K's per inning. I'd take him over Enrique or Vargas right now. Maybe Miggy would even do better in the bullpen since he has done it the last two years.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Oh tell me about it! I would rather play every veteran we can so we can get swept in the first round.

No way do I want to see our prospects out there playing every day and getting experience so that this team is better in the future.

And what stud pitching prospect did Livan just take a spot from? You are comparing apples and oranges.

 

[nathan]

One more thing - can we stage a public whipping of Juan Cruz now that he lost his spot in the rotation - or do we have to continue to pretend he is a gamer and gives it his all?

Every starter except Webb has been below average. Still, I think if Cruz is going to have any kind of big league career it's going to be in the bullpen.

 

[Forrestham]

Livan is now the 2nd best starter on the staff, even though his ERA is over 5.
As bad as our starting rotation is, what great pitcher is he replacing. Complaining about giving up a couple average prospects is not justified IMO.
His best quality is he eats up innings which will save the bullpen

 

[boondockdrunk]

Mock had nothing but potential and it did not seem that he was going to ever reach it. On the other hand, Chico pitched pretty well for this organization and might become an okay #3 starter in the major. However, neither of these guys are a sure bet.

I have to be honest; I do not like the idea of Livan pitching in Chase Field. He was once known as a groundball pitcher but he seems to have gotten away from that during the past few years. His current ratio of FB:GB outs is 206:187 and in the last few years he has really regressed in the department. Those fly balls are not too much of a danger in RFK Stadium but now he might be in a little bit of trouble.

In addition, July tends to be the month that Livan is at his best. This trade was made because the staff has once again fallen off track. However, I doubt that bringing in Hernandez will help too much in a run at the post season.

Oh and just a note, I would say that Livan is around 36 years-old.

 

[boondockdrunk]

Per rotoworld

Diamondbacks acquired RHP Livan Hernandez from the Nationals for RHP Garrett Mock and LHP Matt Chico.
New Nationals assistant GM Mike Rizzo picks up a couple of the pitchers he originally drafted for Arizona. We're guessing this one will work out better for the Nats. Hernandez has pitched a lot better lately, but the ballpark switch, combined with his development into a flyball pitcher, could prevent him from bringing down his ERA any further. Also, this isn't the kind of move likely to push the Diamondbacks into the playoffs, and they may be getting more of a No. 4 starter than a No. 2 starter in 2007. The addition of Hernandez will likely cost Enrique Gonzalez his rotation spot.

 

[green machine]

And what stud pitching prospect did Livan just take a spot from? You are comparing apples and oranges.

My comment has more to do with the fact that the team won't play some of the younger guys consistently because they are in the hunt for the division or the wild card. The Hernandez trade doesn't bother me as much as the thinking that winning the division this year would be some great accomplishment.

 

[AZZenny]

We give up on young pitchers so damn quickly around here -- there's no way yet to say Mock 'was never going to reach' his potential. I'd trust Rizzo over Byrnes on this one. A solid little lefty reliever? Maybe not a starter -- but we'll see.

Right now, Hernandez could definitely take anyone but Webb out of the rotation -- six innings, five runs would beat the last round of outings. He hasn't made it past 7 in awhile, so I guess innings eater is relative. Just hope he know donuts go up on the board.

I also hope this doesn't mean that they think Webb will be out for awhile.

And I agree - anyone who gets excited about the WC or even the Division with the team we've got needs their heads examined. This is not our year.

 

[82CardsGrad]

We give up on young pitchers so damn quickly around here -- there's no way yet to say Mock 'was never going to reach' his potential. I'd trust Rizzo over Byrnes on this one. A solid little lefty reliever? Maybe not a starter -- but we'll see.

Right now, Hernandez could definitely take anyone but Webb out of the rotation -- six innings, five runs would beat the last round of outings. He hasn't made it past 7 in awhile, so I guess innings eater is relative. Just hope he know donuts go up on the board.

I also hope this doesn't mean that they think Webb will be out for awhile.

And I agree - anyone who gets excited about the WC or even the Division with the team we've got needs their heads examined. This is not our year.

"Not our year"??? The entire National League is playing at AAA level at best! This is most definitely a year for the D-backs to "go for it", as the rest of the league flat out sucks! Of course, it doesn't matter anyway as there is not one NL team that can beat any of the AL teams making the post season - not one!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I could see this team could getting out of the NL although that's more of a negative reflection on the NL than a positive one for the DBacks. Whoever does eventually come out of the NL is going to get destroyed by the AL representative. Reminds me of the post-Jordan NBA where the best Eastern Conference team was always about the seventh best team in the NBA.

Livan's got a tremendous upside and we got him for a couple guys who were not in the organization's long-term plan. I'm okay with this as the untouchables (Montero, Upton, Young, Drew, Jackson, Quentin) are still within the organization.

 

[mjb21aztd]

I atleast like the fact the dbacks made a trade for another starter pitcher that can help us win games now. Hopefully Webb returns to full health and can do his usual stuff to finish off the season. To bad we couldnt have got Zito or Dontrell in a trade but Livan was a good pickup should be a great race till the end of the year between the Padres and Dbacks

 

[devilfan02]

And I agree - anyone who gets excited about the WC or even the Division with the team we've got needs their heads examined. This is not our year.

Absolutely disagree. Who's to say once we get in the playoffs we can't go on a run against a weak NL? It's not like Byrnes sold the farm system to bring in Hernandez.... He let go 2 mid-level pitching prospects for a proven pitcher who eats innings and will immediately bolster our staff. If we let go a major prospect then that would be a totally different story. I would much rather have Hernandez, who has another year at 5 mill remaining, at the expense of Chico and Mock over Willis or Zito for Drew, Q, Montero, Young.... This builds into our plans for next year as well. Now we can have a potential staff of Webb, Schmidt/Mulder/Zito (take your pick), maybe someone like Ted Lilly, Livan Hernandez, Enrique Gonzalez. I have complete trust in Byrnes and I think he did great in this trade.

 

[BOB_Man24]

Absolutely disagree. Who's to say once we get in the playoffs we can't go on a run against a weak NL? It's not like Byrnes sold the farm system to bring in Hernandez.... He let go 2 mid-level pitching prospects for a proven pitcher who eats innings and will immediately bolster our staff. If we let go a major prospect then that would be a totally different story. I would much rather have Hernandez, who has another year at 5 mill remaining, at the expense of Chico and Mock over Willis or Zito for Drew, Q, Montero, Young.... This builds into our plans for next year as well. Now we can have a potential staff of Webb, Schmidt/Mulder/Zito (take your pick), maybe someone like Ted Lilly, Livan Hernandez, Enrique Gonzalez. I have complete trust in Byrnes and I think he did great in this trade.

I completely agree with this line of thinking. I mean the fact of the matter is that Livan will eat innings and he has been pitching better of later. If next year he can continue to eat innings and get some wins and be a dependable 3/4 starter then great. I mean i am sure that Rizzo got some prospects that he felt would have great upside, but they are still prospects and just that. Lastly, the Dbacks are in the race, and as much as i would like them to play Quentin everyday, they cant justify it without trading the POS that we have out there in Green and Gonzo. Hopefully someone (the cardinals maybe) will trade for Green, and i dont think that anyone doenst want to see the babybacks playing....

 

[AZZenny]

Well shoot, anyone can be an innings-eater if you don't care about ERA. We shall see.

At a svelte 245 youthful pounds, Livan has averaged only 6 Innings per start in 2006, down from 7 in past years, but since his ERA goes up markedly when comparing innings 7-9 to innings 4-6, it may be just as well. He has a decent BB:K ratio, an uninspiring W:L ratio, and acceptable WHIP, and although his ground-to-fly out ratio has tilted this year to the fly, he has given up less than 1 homer per game, so that's moderately hopeful.

Oh, right -- he's a former Moorad client.